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and then

CIA says Putin helped Trump win

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and then
20 hours ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

But, with that posted, on the flip side, I'm also sure Russia isn't happy that the US just might have strong leadership now which won't stand by and let Russia get away with their **** anymore.

This will be the most revealing sign.  Does Trump actually treat Russia the way Obama treated Iran or does he treat them with a strong hand.  The Dems are blowing this thing way out of proportion.  Hacking is and will continue to be a reality until some bright young mind finds a way to stop it cold.  Until then, an assumption of risk is a burden for all concerned.  All that will be accomplished with the investigations is to reinforce the divisions that exist now.  Any attempt to actually unseat Trump could lead to real violence in this country.  That almost seems to be the goal of these actions.

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GlitterRose
21 hours ago, pallidin said:

What, exactly, might be Putin's interest in having hackers swing the election?

Could anyone explain what the benefit to Putin might be?

 

The altered the Republican platform.

Trump staffers in the room, who are not delegates but are there to oversee the process, intervened. By working with pro-Trump delegates, they were able to get the issue tabled while they devised a method to roll back the language.

On the sideline, Denman tried to persuade the Trump staffers not to change the language, but failed. “I was troubled when they put aside my amendment and then watered it down,” Denman told me. “I said, ‘What is your problem with a country that wants to remain free?’ It seems like a simple thing.”

Finally, Trump staffers wrote an amendment to Denman’s amendment that stripped out the platform’s call for “providing lethal defensive weapons” and replaced it with softer language calling for “appropriate assistance.”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjsm6WW1OzQAhUIr1QKHUp7CxQQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2Fglobal-opinions%2Ftrump-campaign-guts-gops-anti-russia-stance-on-ukraine%2F2016%2F07%2F18%2F98adb3b0-4cf3-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html&usg=AFQjCNH3SbX1N2KiMHcIZSSf6Zm1qgRsVQ

Edited by ChaosRose

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, ChaosRose said:

The Republicans changed their platform. 

Trump staffers in the room, who are not delegates but are there to oversee the process, intervened. By working with pro-Trump delegates, they were able to get the issue tabled while they devised a method to roll back the language.

On the sideline, Denman tried to persuade the Trump staffers not to change the language, but failed. “I was troubled when they put aside my amendment and then watered it down,” Denman told me. “I said, ‘What is your problem with a country that wants to remain free?’ It seems like a simple thing.”

Finally, Trump staffers wrote an amendment to Denman’s amendment that stripped out the platform’s call for “providing lethal defensive weapons” and replaced it with softer language calling for “appropriate assistance.”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjsm6WW1OzQAhUIr1QKHUp7CxQQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2Fglobal-opinions%2Ftrump-campaign-guts-gops-anti-russia-stance-on-ukraine%2F2016%2F07%2F18%2F98adb3b0-4cf3-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html&usg=AFQjCNH3SbX1N2KiMHcIZSSf6Zm1qgRsVQ

Many consider Russia to not be a large threat , if we stop poking them in the eye (myself included) . Im not sure Trump holding that position is evidence of any influence by Putin. 

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GlitterRose
7 hours ago, bee said:

.

anyway --- 'CIA says Putin helped Trump win' ....

fake main stream news and fake Intelligence --- we are used to all that c-r-a-p by now and getting more and more immune to it - 
 

.

There's a saying...

You can't awaken someone who's pretending to be asleep.

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GlitterRose
Just now, Farmer77 said:

Many consider Russia to not be a large threat , if we stop poking them in the eye (myself included) . Im not sure Trump holding that position is evidence of any influence by Putin. 

Trump wasn't even there at the time, and claimed not to even know about it. Which doesn't say much for him not even knowing what his staffers were doing and that they were influencing the platform. If it's true that he didn't know, which I doubt. 

If Putin is puppet mastering our elections, I'd say he's a threat to our democracy. 

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Farmer77
Just now, ChaosRose said:

Trump wasn't even there at the time, and claimed not to even know about it. Which doesn't say much for him not even knowing what his staffers were doing and that they were influencing the platform. If it's true that he didn't know, which I doubt. 

If Putin is puppet mastering our elections, I'd say he's a threat to our democracy. 

Putin became a convenient fall guy because of wikileaks and anonymous. Im not saying its not possible that Russia did hack, just that the evidence is lacking for anything conclusive. 

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GlitterRose
8 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

The pay-to-play accusations are farcical. What that wealthy crowd contributed to Trump was nothing more than chump-change to them. This is what helped Trump win.   https://youtu.be/zJlhg1ynz-k

 

There was a perfect storm of varying factors that helped Trump "win." Voter suppression, fake news, various witch hunts (not ever amounting to anything), and the coverage he managed to get...along with the fact that Putin and Wikileaks were helping him, and Republicans effectively hid that fact. That said, I never claimed the billionaires got him elected. Just that it's in-your-face pay to play. They donated hugely to his foundation and/or campaign, which essentially bought them cabinet positions. They will be making policy. He's not even trying to hide the pay to play. It's right in your face, and yet...you're more interested in hypothetical and unproven pay to play than the actual stuff...if the actual stuff is about your guy. 

And there has been plenty of evidence that there were indeed "deplorables." 

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bee
12 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

There's a saying...

You can't awaken someone who's pretending to be asleep.

.

I'm not the one pretending anything ---

but you....?

.

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GlitterRose
5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Putin became a convenient fall guy because of wikileaks and anonymous. Im not saying its not possible that Russia did hack, just that the evidence is lacking for anything conclusive. 

Only if you don't believe the intelligence. And like I said, you can't awaken someone who is pretending to be asleep. Trump, Mitch McConnell et al...they're pretending to be asleep. 

They knew and they didn't care, because they knew it would be beneficial to them. 

Edited by ChaosRose
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GlitterRose
1 minute ago, bee said:

.

I'm not the one pretending anything ---

but you....?

.

Trump was still telling everyone it was probably some fat guy in a basement somewhere when he had already gotten the intelligence briefing. 

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bee
Just now, ChaosRose said:

Trump was still telling everyone it was probably some fat guy in a basement somewhere when he had already gotten the intelligence briefing. 

.

like I said before fake MSM news --- fake intelligence --- it's a shame it has come to this but the public in general are :sleepy: -

and not so easily fooled as you would like to think they are -

.

 

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Farmer77
Just now, ChaosRose said:

Only if you don't believe the intelligence. And like I said, you can't awaken someone who is pretending to be asleep. Trump, Mitch McConnell et al...they're pretending to be asleep. 

I genuinely dont know whether I believe the intelligence or not. There has been a concerted pounding of the war drums regarding russia from our alphabet agencies for several years now which undermines their credibility IMO and theres no arguing that Russia has been screwing their game up in Syria for a while now. 

When speaking of "evidence" from our intelligence agencies keep incidents like this in mind : FBI sent planeload of agents to frame Assange in Iceland, got snubbed by minister   LOL just realized thats an RT article, its a great newssite but in light of the topic heres another corroborating link  Minister: Iceland refused to help FBI on WikiLeaks 

They care not about right or wrong, just in accomplishing the mission. 

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GlitterRose
2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I genuinely dont know whether I believe the intelligence or not. There has been a concerted pounding of the war drums regarding russia from our alphabet agencies for several years now which undermines their credibility IMO and theres no arguing that Russia has been screwing their game up in Syria for a while now. 

When speaking of "evidence" from our intelligence agencies keep incidents like this in mind : FBI sent planeload of agents to frame Assange in Iceland, got snubbed by minister   LOL just realized thats an RT article, its a great newssite but in light of the topic heres another corroborating link  Minister: Iceland refused to help FBI on WikiLeaks 

They care not about right or wrong, just in accomplishing the mission. 

Maybe the mission was right. If Assange is colluding with Russia to influence our elections...so he can get a pardon from the Donald...maybe something should have been done so that couldn't happen. 

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GlitterRose
6 minutes ago, bee said:

.

like I said before fake MSM news --- fake intelligence --- it's a shame it has come to this but the public in general are :sleepy: -

and not so easily fooled as you would like to think they are -

.

 

Again...real news outlets need to vet their stories. Teenagers in their basements don't, but Republicans often would rather believe their stories (even when they come out and say they're fake) because they want them to be true. 

As for the intelligence, the way it stands...our government officials are so partisan that it doesn't matter whether the information is true or not. If it's not favorable to them, they're going to ignore it. 

Edited by ChaosRose

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Maybe the mission was right. If Assange is colluding with Russia to influence our elections...so he can get a pardon from the Donald...maybe something should have been done so that couldn't happen. 

The war drums started long before the flight by the FBI into Iceland and that flight happened long before Trump ever ran for president ( The flight was in August of 2011) . 

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GlitterRose
3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The war drums started long before the flight by the FBI into Iceland and that flight happened long before Trump ever ran for president ( The flight was in August of 2011) . 

I'm all for whistle blowers who are doing what they do for the greater good. 

I don't think Assange is one of those people. 

It's quite possible that the FBI had a heads up on that way before I figured it out. 

Edited by ChaosRose

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danielost
On 12/10/2016 at 9:58 AM, ChaosRose said:

How about the "unseemliness" of knowing Russia was rigging the election back in September, and saying oh no...we don't want the public to know it...because it benefits our side. But wait...here is some crap about more emails (although they're just duplicates)...days before the election. And that's not a bipartisan attack. 

The Republicans effectively allowed espionage to wreck havoc on the election because it benefited them. 

And every working stiff got conned. It's Government Sachs, folks. The people he has put in want to privatize everything (translation: profits for them and crap for you), do away with minimum wage, strip whatever consumer and worker protections we have left, gut education, and rape the environment until there is no clean water left (except for those who can afford it). I wonder how many "dead peasants" we'll see. 

how has making everything public helped anyone.  people have stopped looking for work and are on foodstamps and welfare.  that is everyone except the illegals who are not getting paid minimum wage, or paying taxes.  all their money goes home to mexico.  then we have the cartels invading the usa to sell drugs and getting into gun fights with the border patrol.

 

why would the russians want to help trump?  according, to the democrats he is supposed to go to war against them.

Edited by danielost

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Again...real news outlets need to vet their stories. Teenagers in their basements don't, but Republicans often would rather believe their stories (even when they come out and say they're fake) because they want them to be true. 

As for the intelligence, the way it stands...our government officials are so partisan that it doesn't matter whether the information is true or not. If it's not favorable to them, they're going to ignore it. 

 I wish there was a half like button. Your second sentence is exactly on point partisan politics have become more important to many if not most than the overall good of the nation, facts or laws. 

Your first sentence though , comeon, you have to stop buying the fake news that is being called fake news. Do you mean fake news like a youtube video caused benghazi? Or fake news like Hillary was shot at in Bosnia? Or maybe an even better example of  the unreliability of "real news outlets" would be the monica lewinsky story. It took a blogger to break the story the "real news" people had sat on for MONTHS and refused to run. 

The "fake news" hysteria is nothing more than a way to eliminate information that doesnt come from government sources. 

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bee
3 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Again...real news outlets need to vet their stories. Teenagers in their basements don't, but Republicans often would rather believe their stories (even when they come out and say they're fake) because they want them to be true. 

 

it's not simply about news outlets vetting their stories - it's about being real journalists and not just propagandists -
REPORTING and not trying to manage perception on behalf of those who pay their wages -

(I'm sure you know what I'm talking about :) )

often I look at the Sky News (and other) presenters and I think -- what a shame you are payed to churn out propaganda -
that's probably not what you set out to do when you went into that line of employment - 

.

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bee
9 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

I'm all for whistle blowers who are doing what they do for the greater good. 

I don't think Assange is one of those people. 

It's quite possible that the FBI had a heads up on that way before I figured it out. 

.

bolded ---

surprise surprise !!! .....:rolleyes:

.

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GlitterRose
7 minutes ago, danielost said:

how has making everything public helped anyone.  people have stopped looking for work and are on foodstamps and welfare.  that is everyone except the illegals who are not getting paid minimum wage, or paying taxes.  all their money goes home to mexico.  then we have the cartels invading the usa to sell drugs and getting into gun fights with the border patrol.

 

why would the russians want to help trump?  according, to the democrats he is supposed to go to war against them.

Already posted how Trump staffers changed the platform re Putin and Ukraine.

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Hammerclaw
7 hours ago, Astra. said:

That I agree with.

And now he's top banana! *lol*

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Hammerclaw

We don't need Russia for an enemy. We can compete, aggressively, with the Russians on the world stage without the necessity or rattle of nuclear sabers. We need to stop seeing the world in stark blacks and whites and gain more understanding of the subtle nuances of it's various shades of gray. We are not the moral compass for the rest of the world  We have no manifest destiny to change other countries and need to learn how to deal with them, as they are. Meddling with and over-turning the status quo, more often than not, leads to disastrous consequences. Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya where we intervened militarily, are still racked by internecine conflicts, as is Syria, where we encouraged, then failed to support, an open rebellion, exposing the myth of American exceptionalism. We can be as fallible and self-serving as anyone.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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.ZZ.
2 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Trump was still telling everyone it was probably some fat guy in a basement somewhere when he had already gotten the intelligence briefing. 

Another distortion of what he actually said. Show me the quote where he said "probably".

Everything that I have read from you is wrong.

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Hammerclaw
2 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Trump wasn't even there at the time, and claimed not to even know about it. Which doesn't say much for him not even knowing what his staffers were doing and that they were influencing the platform. If it's true that he didn't know, which I doubt. 

If Putin is puppet mastering our elections, I'd say he's a threat to our democracy. 

E-mail hacking of poorly secured networks hardly requires the machinations or resources of the evil empire. Maybe Snowden did it for him. He's good. Maybe Weiner left the back door open. I rather doubt anyone directly connected to the Russian government did the actual hacking.

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