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CERN scientists make antimatter breakthrough

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aka CAT

You sure know how to get my attention.  

While I have mixed feelings about there being particle colliders, the results of such experiments fascinate me.

After all, wouldn't one know that anti-hydrogen atoms would be discovered just when scientists have began to come up with alternate theories that presume anti-matter nonexistent.

 

I imagine, somewhere, Einstein is smiling.

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aka CAT

P.S.  Did anyone else think the illustration resembled a pair of eyes and a nose?

P.P.S. MERRY CHRISTMAS.

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docyabut2

In physics, it is predicted that for every particle of matter that exists there should also be a particle of antimatter. When the two particles collide, a large amount of energy is released, annihilating both.

I saw a demonstration of these particles where both meet  in a circle are annihilated in the big bang,  but going in a straight line survived, the string theory.

Edited by docyabut2

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Derek Willis
2 hours ago, aka CAT said:

You sure know how to get my attention.  

While I have mixed feelings about there being particle colliders, the results of such experiments fascinate me.

After all, wouldn't one know that anti-hydrogen atoms would be discovered just when scientists have began to come up with alternate theories that presume anti-matter nonexistent.

 

I imagine, somewhere, Einstein is smiling.

It's more likely to be Paul Dirac who is smiling.

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Four Winds

Yeah CERN, forever trying to find a way to blink mankind out of existence.  :o 

I'm kidding of course but secretly hoping in the back of my mind they do have their math right.

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brlesq1
4 hours ago, Four Winds said:

Yeah CERN, forever trying to find a way to blink mankind out of existence.  :o 

I'm kidding of course but secretly hoping in the back of my mind they do have their math right.

:lol:

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aka CAT
6 hours ago, Derek Willis said:

It's more likely to be Paul Dirac who is smiling.

Thank you for pointing out the fact that Paul Dirac first predicted anti-matter, granted the prediction, made possible by Einstein, was based upon a fairly simple deduction, e.g.

Dirac's equation predicts antiparticles____________________

In 1928, British physicist Paul Dirac wrote down an equation that combined quantum theory and special relativity to describe the behaviour of an electron moving at a relativistic speed. The equation would allow whole atoms to be treated in a manner consistent with Einstein's relativity theory. Dirac's equation appeared in his paper The quantum theory of the electron, received by the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society A on 2 January 1928. It won Dirac the Nobel prize in physics in 1933.

But the equation posed a problem: just as the equation x2=4 can have two possible solutions (x=2 or x=-2), so Dirac's equation could have two solutions, one for an electron with positive energy, and one for an electron with negative energy. But classical physics (and common sense) dictated that the energy of a particle must always be a positive number.

Dirac interpreted the equation to mean that for every particle there exists a corresponding antiparticle[...]

https://timeline.web.cern.ch/events/diracs-equation-predicts-antiparticles

Sometimes I type much as people think aloud... for, while quantum theory and special relativity have essentially been fused since Dirac's theory of relativistic quantum mechanics, the subject discovery promises to yield many new findings, e.g.  

Deep probe of antimatter puts Einstein’s special relativity to the test

By Adrian ChoDec. 19, 2016 , 11:45 AM

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/12/deep-probe-antimatter-puts-einstein-s-special-relativity-test

Notwithstanding that my mental meanderings had more to do with "spooky action," neither his dislike of that idea nor his theories' still being tested today diminishes his relevance 111 years later.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by aka CAT
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Derek Willis
3 hours ago, aka CAT said:

Thank you for pointing out the fact that Paul Dirac first predicted anti-matter, granted the prediction, made possible by Einstein, was based upon a fairly simple deduction, e.g.

Dirac's equation predicts antiparticles____________________

In 1928, British physicist Paul Dirac wrote down an equation that combined quantum theory and special relativity to describe the behaviour of an electron moving at a relativistic speed. The equation would allow whole atoms to be treated in a manner consistent with Einstein's relativity theory. Dirac's equation appeared in his paper The quantum theory of the electron, received by the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society A on 2 January 1928. It won Dirac the Nobel prize in physics in 1933.

But the equation posed a problem: just as the equation x2=4 can have two possible solutions (x=2 or x=-2), so Dirac's equation could have two solutions, one for an electron with positive energy, and one for an electron with negative energy. But classical physics (and common sense) dictated that the energy of a particle must always be a positive number.

Dirac interpreted the equation to mean that for every particle there exists a corresponding antiparticle[...]

https://timeline.web.cern.ch/events/diracs-equation-predicts-antiparticles

Sometimes I type much as people think aloud... for, while quantum theory and special relativity have essentially been fused since Dirac's theory of relativistic quantum mechanics, the subject discovery promises to yield many new findings, e.g.  

Deep probe of antimatter puts Einstein’s special relativity to the test

By Adrian ChoDec. 19, 2016 , 11:45 AM

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/12/deep-probe-antimatter-puts-einstein-s-special-relativity-test

Notwithstanding that my mental meanderings had more to do with "spooky action," neither his dislike of that idea nor his theories' still being tested today diminishes his relevance 111 years later.

 

Yes, what Dirac did was so simple it makes one wonder why a school kid didn't think of it. (As Sheldon would say: "Is that sarcasm?"). So simple, as is pointed out, he won the 1933 Nobel Prize. No one is diminishing Albert Einstein, but I just thought credit ought to go where it is due.

Edited by Derek Willis
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DieChecker
Quote

"Something happened, some small asymmetry that led some of the matter to survive, and we simply have no good idea what explains that right now."

From UM Homepage article....

I wonder if they will eventually find that Only outside interference can allow for matter to survive such a creation event??

Perhaps they'll find a reason why there was an exception, and perhaps not.

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David Thomson

Since the light signature for anti-hydrogen is the same as for hydrogen, then it would follow that the light signature for all anti-matter is the same as for all normal matter. So why is there an assumption that all the observed galaxies in the Universe are made with normal matter? Why couldn't half of them be anti-matter galaxies?

Also, positrons are produced regularly at colliders. I knew a scientist whose job that was at ORNL. The existence of antimatter has not been seriously contested for many decades.

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Derek Willis
1 hour ago, David Thomson said:

Since the light signature for anti-hydrogen is the same as for hydrogen, then it would follow that the light signature for all anti-matter is the same as for all normal matter. So why is there an assumption that all the observed galaxies in the Universe are made with normal matter? Why couldn't half of them be anti-matter galaxies?

Also, positrons are produced regularly at colliders. I knew a scientist whose job that was at ORNL. The existence of antimatter has not been seriously contested for many decades.

The assumption is that all matter was created in close proximity at the time of the big bang. Hence if there was as much matter as anti-matter it would have all been annihilated long before any galaxies formed.

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David Thomson
29 minutes ago, Derek Willis said:

The assumption is that all matter was created in close proximity at the time of the big bang. Hence if there was as much matter as anti-matter it would have all been annihilated long before any galaxies formed.

Actually, the assumption is that all matter was created in a Big Bang. A much more realistic interpretation of the facts would be that matter is constantly being both created and destroyed, and that the matter of the Universe is always turning over. The average time between creation (Casimir Effect and fusion) and destruction (black hole annihilation) is about 13 to 19 billion years. Thus, the Universe would have always existed and would be infinite, as the evidence appears to show. 

The same physical process that occur with normal matter would occur in the opposite spin with anti-matter, and entire galaxies could be anti-matter galaxies. Further, it has been postulated that if anti-matter exists, it would have a gravitational repulsion characteristic toward normal matter, and thus there would be no collisions of anti-matter and normal matter galaxies.

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aka CAT
5 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I wonder if they will eventually find that Only outside interference can allow for matter to survive such a creation event??

Define or capitalize 'outside interference' lest 'it'  :P allow anti-matter to swallow our universe.  Btw, I just noticed your explanation of your seemingly peculiar username.

1 hour ago, David Thomson said:

[...] entire galaxies could be anti-matter galaxies

Mix that with 'spooky action,' and you have a familiar sci-fi theme: mirror-image doppelgängers bent upon destroying their exact opposites in order to survive.

serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQr5zY7EQx_mAqfsUKT8lZAQj_viPWWCNPPWVb5i7Q_RqMCh9a6&sp=bf1589ba635424d2290f24e69936dfde

serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft1.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcRZSWCX3jROl03y425H1ykjascBrDXfUHfrj0xQJS4NhHzXEaLU&sp=0b9cbac99c1466e3d5da7450ec88a605

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by aka CAT
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pallidin

Something which interests me about the article is the supposition that equal amounts of matter/antimatter were created during the Big Bang.

It goes on to say, if the above is true, there is no accounting for our current existence as complete annihilation should have occurred fairly quickly.

So, it goes on to suggest that some type of asymmetry took place very early on, preventing complete annihilation of the early universe between matter and antimatter.

It would seem then only two possibilities; either antimatter did not exist at all in equal amounts, or, that a currently unknown asymmetry did occur.

 

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Something which interests me about the article is the supposition that equal amounts of matter/antimatter were created during the Big Bang.

It goes on to say, if the above is true, there is no accounting for our current existence as complete annihilation should have occurred fairly quickly.

So, it goes on to suggest that some type of asymmetry took place very early on, preventing complete annihilation of the early universe between matter and antimatter.

It would seem then only two possibilities; either antimatter did not exist at all in equal amounts, or, that a currently unknown asymmetry did occur.

 

No Phoof ! occured, because of an "assymetry" ? I take from that, that God is not a stickler for tidiness, a man after my own heart !

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DieChecker
47 minutes ago, pallidin said:

Something which interests me about the article is the supposition that equal amounts of matter/antimatter were created during the Big Bang.

It goes on to say, if the above is true, there is no accounting for our current existence as complete annihilation should have occurred fairly quickly.

So, it goes on to suggest that some type of asymmetry took place very early on, preventing complete annihilation of the early universe between matter and antimatter.

It would seem then only two possibilities; either antimatter did not exist at all in equal amounts, or, that a currently unknown asymmetry did occur.

 

Galactus did it. 

Galactus.jpg

Edited by DieChecker
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Dyna

No Big Bang.So now what?

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pallidin
On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Dyna said:

No Big Bang.So now what?

Well, not sure. I think the article is not disputing a "Big Bang", rather that the dynamics of its early expressions are not well understood.

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pallidin

And keep in mind that the theory of a Big Bang includes the idea that space/time for our local universe was created as well, making its understanding even more complicated.

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khol
On 23/12/2016 at 9:24 PM, pallidin said:

Something which interests me about the article is the supposition that equal amounts of matter/antimatter were created during the Big Bang.

It goes on to say, if the above is true, there is no accounting for our current existence as complete annihilation should have occurred fairly quickly.

So, it goes on to suggest that some type of asymmetry took place very early on, preventing complete annihilation of the early universe between matter and antimatter.

It would seem then only two possibilities; either antimatter did not exist at all in equal amounts, or, that a currently unknown asymmetry did occur.

 

According to this,research has shown as far back as the 60's indications of why there is more matter then anti matter. Very cool stuff :) 

http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=121

 

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
On 23/12/2016 at 1:48 AM, Four Winds said:

Yeah CERN, forever trying to find a way to blink mankind out of existence.  :o 

I'm kidding of course but secretly hoping in the back of my mind they do have their math right.

I think if theres any group of people that I would trust to get the mathematics right it would be CERN. Mathematics is kinda their thing. ;)

On 24/12/2016 at 9:34 PM, Dyna said:

No Big Bang.So now what?

Where in the article does it say that the Big Bang has been disproven ?

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Derek Willis
On 12/23/2016 at 6:09 PM, David Thomson said:

Further, it has been postulated that if anti-matter exists, it would have a gravitational repulsion characteristic toward normal matter, and thus there would be no collisions of anti-matter and normal matter galaxies.

Electrons are negatively charged and positrons are positively charged. Hence they are attracted to one another by their electric charge. Even if they were repulsed by gravity - and not many scientists believe that to be the case - the electrical attraction would be far stronger. 

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Emma_Acid
On 23/12/2016 at 0:48 AM, Four Winds said:

Yeah CERN, forever trying to find a way to blink mankind out of existence.  :o 

I'm kidding of course but secretly hoping in the back of my mind they do have their math right.

Of course they do. It's the most complicated piece of machinery in the history of mankind. I know you're kidding, but the "arrogant scientists destroying the world" point of view really isn't constructive (let alone even correct)

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Derek Willis
On 12/23/2016 at 0:48 AM, Four Winds said:

Yeah CERN, forever trying to find a way to blink mankind out of existence.  :o 

I'm kidding of course but secretly hoping in the back of my mind they do have their math right.

I don't think scientists would go to all the trouble of building the LHC just to find ways of blinking mankind out of existence. Not when we have had that capability for sixty years in the form of nuclear bombs.

And in any case, though particles are accelerated to almost the speed of light in the LHC, the energy actually acquired by any given particle is only that of a gnat flying into a window.

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