Definition And Explanations

[back to earth 23,447]

14 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Thank you for your dedication to making a non point.

jmccr8

10 / 10  ! 

[back to earth 23,447]

16 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

You have ALL of this factually incorrect, but if it is how you perceive it, I will never change your mind  

 This debate began when i claimed the world would be utopian if everyone was like me  Then i corrected myself and said NOT Utopian. because Utopian means perfect, and i am not perfect 

 

THEN   there was some discussion about made up words and greek words 

THEN someone asked me if i spoke greek and i replied NO 

THEN (or in the meantime)  BTE jumped in and said,  of course walker doesn't speak greek, because if he did he would know utopia does NOT mean perfect.   The ensuing  pages and posts involving showing that BTE is absolutely incorrect. In English usage Utopia means perfect  and i used It ABSOLUTELY correctly   in my original posts. 

me in post 1303

I am not sure you understand this word.

My life,  if it became standard human behaviour   would create an utopian world The current one is the dystopia.

 Actually it would not be perfect  (utopian)  but it would be many times better than the present one. 

mwoo7 in post 1311

Yeah it was something or a word among others that had come up in emails about the same time I'd seen dsystopia or whatever they said HERE!  I was thinking hey probably a play on one of the words I was JUST DISCUSSING a few minutes ago with friends through email, prior to cruising around in UM !

Thanks for nice words hmmmm ""good" sense of lamia" not good sense for very long , eating kids HA! oxymoronic is right! gullet/glutten==eats too many children.

So do you read Hebrew and Greek? in passing or are you fluent in one or the other?  I thought Greek was okay but Hebrew was like the 11 languages(prob more) of Chinese, just couldn't pick it up!

BTE in post 1319

 

Of course he doesnt speak Greek !  If he did he would have realised Utopia does not mean 'perfect ' place or anything like that. 

He getz the  place, like,  all confused  like ,  with  wot he finks the storyz   about  .  

τόπος  topos -  place    ,   U  know  ?     No  - thats right        ...    'cause  Woos   ;    οὐ   or 'U'  -  not .....    ergo    οὐόπος  - utopia ; 'no place'  ....  no such place - doesnt exist . ....  fantasy .

But as we know , our friend likes to see perfection in fantasy    

 

 

I repeat utopian means perfect in English, and there is NO SUCH WORD in Greek, because More made it up.  He constructed it  to MEAN perfect (It was the name he gave his island state which embodied all the principles of moral and ethical living he considered perfect) .  A similar compound word in greek means no place, and More used this as  a joke, pun or ironical comment,  (only available to classical greek speakers of the time, so it was an elitist "in joke") that perfection cannot be attained.  

 

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by back to earth

[back to earth 23,447]

16 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I repeat utopian means perfect in English, and there is NO SUCH WORD in Greek, because More made it up.  He constructed it  to MEAN perfect (It was the name he gave his island state which embodied all the principles of moral and ethical living he considered perfect) .  A similar compound word in greek means no place, and More used this as  a joke, pun or ironical comment,  (only available to classical greek speakers of the time, so it was an elitist "in joke") that perfection cannot be attained.  

Nope ... thats the bit you got wrong by trying to 'speed increase knowledge ' via Wiki and read the reference wrong     

I tried to address this in detail but you 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by back to earth

[back to earth 23,447]

Walker , I think this should be your new avvie pic !  

 

[Mr Walker 5,500]

2 hours ago, back to earth said:

Nope ... thats the bit you got wrong by trying to 'speed increase knowledge ' via Wiki and read the reference wrong     

I tried to address this in detail but you 

 

 

Its not wrong. Read the commentaries on More or even better take the time to read his essay. Dont rely on Wiki, although it appears you have even managed to misunderstand what it said.

What you are claiming is that for 400 years humans have misunderstood More and EVERYONE, is mistaken in his intent for the word.

Believe that if you like to feel vindicated. It is just nonsense. More constructed the word to mean perfect, with a hidden ironical joke available to the classically educated, and every english dictionary ( except the urban one) defines it as such. In this essay topia was a perfect island state not no place. Clearly then the word goes to the qualities of this place not non existence. The essay wasn't about no place it was about a very specific idealised place.

I appreciate some people have misunderstood this over the years but plenty of academics understand. It is a pity you began with wiki,  which contains the popular but incorrect view.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Mr Walker

[back to earth 23,447]

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Its not wrong. Read the commentaries on More or even better take the time to read his essay. Dont rely on Wiki, although it appears you have even managed to misunderstand what it said.

his is post is the usual selection of made u walker bs twisting what i said so he can respond to totally different questions that he made up .

I have known about the word and its usage and etymology and development and the book and the story and More  ... much More , for some time.  What I was referring to was how you got some strange notion in your head from a quick read of that wiki article YOURSELF 

and it was all really clear when I wrote it weeks ago when you could have questioned it then, instead of waiting weeks until it disappears back there and you hope peoples memory can be manipulated by you .      

 

Wiki actually says : 

 The word comes from Greek: οὐ ("not") and τόπος ("place") and means "no-place", and strictly describes any non-existent society 'described in considerable detail'.

and  also notes that 

Eutopia, derived from Greek εὖ ("good" or "well") and τόπος ("place"), means "good place", and is strictly speaking the correct term to describe a positive utopia. 

YOU  snaffled that Eutopia word  and  YOU  claimed  More used that to make up his word  .   And you did that to try and shore up your point of it being  " "good place", 

Whereas Wiki was pointing out IF it was supposed to mean that  it was a good place the word  Eutopia  was a  better choice . But you misread it and claimed he used that word to make the Utopia word  .  

Its back there in black and white.... unless you edited it . 

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

What you are claiming is that for 400 years humans have misunderstood More and EVERYONE, is mistaken in his intent for the word.

NOpe . I never claimed that at all !   I wasnt even discussing that  nothing like it . 

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Believe that if you like to feel vindicated. It is just nonsense.

Indeed , its nonsense YOU just made up   !      

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 

More constructed the word to mean perfect, with a hidden ironical joke available to the classically educated, and every english dictionary ( except the urban one) defines it as such. In this essay topia was a perfect island state not no place. Clearly then the word goes to the qualities of this place not non existence. The essay wasn't about no place it was about a very specific idealised place.

That doesnt exist , thats the point ! 

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I appreciate some people have misunderstood this over the years but plenty of academics understand.

Thats right ... look down you long academic nose at us .   

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 

It is a pity you began with wiki,  which contains the popular but incorrect view.

I never began with wiki , I knew about this before there was even an internet    -    you rushed off to wiki and emmmmmmbarrressed yourself by misreading it and  making up stuff about More using Eutopia because you thought it proved your point  -    ya fruitcake ! 

[Horta 2,700]

1 hour ago, back to earth said:

Thats right ... look down you long academic nose at us .   

lol.

[Stubbly_Dooright 12,326]

14 hours ago, back to earth said:

10 / 10  ! 

What episode is that?!?!? I need to remember that without help!!! I'm thinking "Gamsters of Triskillian" But Chekov is not there, and Scotty is, so.............................. what is that episode name? 

Oh dear................

[Stubbly_Dooright 12,326]

12 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Its not wrong. Read the commentaries on More or even better take the time to read his essay. Dont rely on Wiki, although it appears you have even managed to misunderstand what it said.

How can anyone misread Wiki? That's like............... a double negative!!!!! So..........................................

             

[back to earth 23,447]

10 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

What episode is that?!?!? I need to remember that without help!!! I'm thinking "Gamsters of Triskillian" But Chekov is not there, and Scotty is, so.............................. what is that episode name? 

Oh dear................

How am I supposed to know that !  

Its a random meme  ROFL    ......  < chases Stubbs out with a broom > 

[back to earth 23,447]

10 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

How can anyone misread Wiki? That's like............... a double negative!!!!! So..........................................

             

Not only that , I managed to 'misread' Wiki via directly quoting it !                   

and now ... stay tune  for the  rest of the Walker show ; 

 

[back to earth 23,447]

18 hours ago, back to earth said:

Thats right ... look down you long academic nose at us .   

 

16 hours ago, Horta said:

lol.

 

 

[Stubbly_Dooright 12,326]

3 hours ago, back to earth said:

 

13 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

What episode is that?!?!? I need to remember that without help!!! I'm thinking "Gamsters of Triskillian" But Chekov is not there, and Scotty is, so.............................. what is that episode name? 

Oh dear................

How am I supposed to know that !  

Its a random meme  ROFL    ......  < chases Stubbs out with a broom > 

 

*She manages to grab the broom and then chases BTE around the room with it.* 

Ok, well first, you use a Star Trek gif, a Star Trek the original series gif  you best know what it's about.  

Ok, so I had to Google, but it didn't take long to realize, that's 'Spock's Brain' and it's McCoy not Spock who is withering along with Kirk and Scotty. Spock was too 'brainless' to do the wriggle.  

[Stubbly_Dooright 12,326]

3 hours ago, back to earth said:

Not only that , I managed to 'misread' Wiki via directly quoting it !                   

and now ... stay tune  for the  rest of the Walker show ; 

 

Hold up! I'll need a drink for this. 

[back to earth 23,447]

Angel cocktail  ?

 

 

 

[Stubbly_Dooright 12,326]

5 hours ago, back to earth said:

Angel cocktail  ?

 

 

 

For starters..............  

But then it's followed by................

my fairy GodMother cocktail! 

 

[Hammerclaw 24,434]

Oh, no thanks. I'll just have a glass, instead.    

[Stubbly_Dooright 12,326]

4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

 

Oh, no thanks. I'll just have a glass, instead.    

 

Classy!!!  

[Hammerclaw 24,434]

1 hour ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Classy!!!  

With which I always toast the Goddess, Panacea.

[back to earth 23,447]

The Goddess of the Pancreas !   

 

That Christian Brothers Brandy  ^   ......   reminds me of   'altar boys'   and spiked   '  reward  cordial '  .    

[rakovsky 38]

On 12/24/2016 at 8:46 PM, David Henson said:

What do you think spirituality is? To me it is the exploration of the spiritual, spirit being the unseen forces in our lives. For example, the Greek word spirit, pneuma is where the English words pneumatic and pneumonia come from. The Hebrew word for the same is also translated as breath, or wind. An invisible active force that produces results. Does skepticism really only imply unbeliever or doubtful? Do you think that knowledge of the unseen, or spiritual, is impossible as skepticism seems to imply?

 

Dear David,
You are getting into an interesting area. In the traditional beliefs, the "spirit" was an object distinct from the body and material plane. It goes beyond only exploring unseen forces like gravity to exploring the realm of the interaction of the spirits, the personality, the emotions, the mind beyond what is material.
In the ancient Hebrew concept that you brought up, God has his own "spirit"/breath and he puts this breath into humans like Adam and he made Adam live with it. In the case of the Biblical belief, the prophets had a special inspiration or inbreathing or reception of the Spirit of God so that they were able to prophecy.

And this raises an interesting question for me. The prophecies of future blessings like the resurrection of the dead are very appealing and I would like for them to be true. But I would like a sense of their reliability too. It raises the question of whether if a holy person has inspiration that it means what he predicts is true factually. it's an idea that I have some major doubt about. I can see God working in figures like Martin Luther King Jr., but if he or other inspired civil rights leaders made a specific prediction, like a timeline for when certain civil rights laws would come into effect, I don't know that their prediction would inherently come to pass. Or to give another example, there are descriptions of geology, astronomy, and biology in the Tanakh of the Bible that I am very skeptical about like the story of Noah's Ark and the Great Flood that covered the world.
I tried to get into this issue of the reliability of the inspired literature in my thread here: