Angela Merkel is destroying Europe

[Unusual Tournament]

9 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Captain Risky, Seems to forget the time line of the Referendum. We were lied to he says. But lets just to remind him, David Cameron the Prime Minister of the Day held the referendum based on the package of a reformed European Union. He went to the European Union asking for basically nothing and came back with even less. based on these negotiations He came back to the UK triumphant with what he considered to be a good deal. - He then put that "deal" to the British Public. - the Public looked at the deal which was a crock of $hit, and more importantly how the EU was unwilling reform in any meaningful way. It was on that bases the Referendum was put to the British Public. What should have followed was a campaign to show us the benefits of the being members of the EU. That lasted all but a day - because once you get down to the bones of it the EU offers the UK absolutely nothing we cannot do for ourselves and as a result the Remain side had nothing to offer but fear stories of biblical proportions and as a result they lost the day, they gave it their best shot but it just wasn't good enough.

As a result the EU is to lose free access to its single biggest market, 15% of its GDP is walking out the door and with 5 new very poor countries preparing to join the EU in the coming years, the EU is going to have to make up that shortfall as these poorer countries will be NET beneficiaries not a NET contributor - with the UK out of the EU the hole in the EU's budget is facing a shortfall of 32% - Whose going to pay for that? let the individual parliaments try and sell that to their people.

What i fail to understand with Captain Risky, he hasn't got a dog in this fight, - does he not realise that both the UK and Australia are set to benefit after Brexit. in that we will both be able to sign trade agreements or even a free trade agreement which will boost both our economies and create jobs. - and that's before we move onto travel, as it currently stands if your Australian and want to work here or stay longer than 3 months you need a visa. - but you'll only be allowed in if you have the right skills and in the right category IE: tier 1,2 or 3. because that's right, the UK controls immigration from outside the EU. - But we allow or let in any Tom Dick or Harry from the EU without question regardless of skill set whether they have a job or not. So leaving the EU will stop us being forced to discriminate. As part of a trade deal between the UK and Australia we can see a relaxation of Visa requirements for both work and travel. - But you keep banging the wrong drum Captain. The EU is dead follow the numbers.

 

Thats were you are wrong. The UK is not set to benefit economically by taking a regressive step backward in trading with its neighbours. The UK is sacrificing privileged trade links and political strength to control its borders and laws. That is what Brexit is about. Its got nothing to do with economic considerations. Purely a populous knee jerk reaction.

Don't dress this up as something other than what it is. 

[Space Commander Travis]

4 hours ago, stevewinn said:

What country are you referring to when you say - a shift away from democracy?

The People (in both the UK and America) didn't vote the right way, therefore it doesn't count, of course. 

[Space Commander Travis]

12 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

David Cameron went to the EU looking for a privileged partnership within the EU and was rightly rejected. He tried to black mail the EU with a referendum. Then he put up a vague question to referendum. The rest is history. Why are you bringing this up now? Do you think that Britain was somehow badly treated for asking more than the rest of the EU was getting? 

No, I think he's saying that Cameron was a fool.

[Unusual Tournament]

5 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I don't think so, much as Ali would probably want itt. The votes for were, as pointed out, very largely in Scotland and in L:ondon, England as a whole, regardless of class, predominantly voted Out. 

Hang on. Its been a common theme here in this brexit debate that the vote went along the ways of regions and economic development. The poor and uneducated predominately voted out and the opposite voted in. 

[Unusual Tournament]

4 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

No, I think he's saying that Cameron was a fool.

No he's not. He's saying that Cameron gave the EU a chance to do the right thing for Britain and the EU rejected Britain's concerns. Somehow saying that the EU had a chance to do what was "right."

Edited January 8, 2017 by Captain Risky

[Space Commander Travis]

It's been a common theme according to Ali and his favorite news sources and his ravings about Northerners, perhaps. 

[Space Commander Travis]

2 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

No he's not. He's saying that Cameron gave the EU a chance to do the right thing for Britain and the EU rejected Britain's concerns. Somehow saying that the EU had a chance to do what was "right."

he's not, he's saying that what cameroon demanded of the EU was frankly deluded.

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

It's been a common theme according to Ali and his favorite news sources and his ravings about Northerners, perhaps. 

...regardless i like to think that the British people would have made a better decision if they were better informed.  

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

he's not, he's saying that what cameroon demanded of the EU was frankly deluded.

Let him speak for himself. Remember we're talking about Cameron who was the apple of Steve's eye when the Scottish referendum was news. 

[hetrodoxly]

19 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

David Cameron went to the EU looking for a privileged partnership within the EU and was rightly rejected. He tried to black mail the EU with a referendum. Then he put up a vague question to referendum. The rest is history. Why are you bringing this up now? Do you think that Britain was somehow badly treated for asking more than the rest of the EU was getting? 

The referendum was promised in 2013 it was to go ahead irrelevant of what scraps Cameron did or didn't get and whatever they were the result would have been the same, at the time he said "If we left the European Union, it would be a one-way ticket, not a return" this is what we wanted to hear, what we expected, what we wanted.

[+and-then]

14 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

The Greater South East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere? 

As I recall, that one ended badly.  If a "superstate" rises in Europe, it won't be the Europe of our lifetimes.  My guess is that after a horrific civil war, it will be ruled by Muhammad's followers. 

[Setton]

5 hours ago, SNR said:

The other 48% were Scotland and central London (the Scots hate the English didn't you know) & (the rich in London think the rest of us are scum anyway).

Oh I must have moved. I hadn't noticed. London's less busy than I remember...

[Glockornothing]

3 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

The People (in both the UK and America) didn't vote the right way, therefore it doesn't count, of course. 

We are glad here in America that people finally pulled their 5th point of contact out of their **** and voted the way they did, and congrats to the UK also for voting how they did against the pre programed sheeple mentality.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Glockornothing

[imrunningthismonkeyfarm]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

...regardless i like to think that the British people would have made a better decision if they were better informed.  

Say it how you mean it risky.. Unejucatid you ment?

[Glockornothing]

3 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

...regardless i like to think that the British people would have made a better decision if they were better informed.  

Must have been the Russian influence for the voting outcome.

[LV-426]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Hang on. Its been a common theme here in this brexit debate that the vote went along the ways of regions and economic development. The poor and uneducated predominately voted out and the opposite voted in. 

Seeing as you are basing all of your arguments on anecdotal evidence, I thought I'd do the same.

When I did my second degree in a difficult technical subject in my thirties, the head of the course - who was a retired naval engineer - used to describe many of the students on courses such as media studies as "basketweavers", and he was absolutely right. Many of these teens and twenty-somethings were just strolling through p*** easy degree courses, while barely able to tie their own shoelaces, let alone make informed decisions on political issues.

I'd take the views of an adult who has put food on the table for themselves and their family through years of honest, hard work, over the spoon fed opinions of these "millenials" any day of the week.

Generalization? Sure. There are smart kids and there are dumb adults. I'd take this generalization over the one you keep spouting though.

[itsnotoutthere]

8 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Seeing as you are basing all of your arguments on anecdotal evidence, I thought I'd do the same.

When I did my second degree in a difficult technical subject in my thirties, the head of the course - who was a retired naval engineer - used to describe many of the students on courses such as media studies as "basketweavers", and he was absolutely right. Many of these teens and twenty-somethings were just strolling through p*** easy degree courses, while barely able to tie their own shoelaces, let alone make informed decisions on political issues.

I'd take the views of an adult who has put food on the table for themselves and their family through years of honest, hard work, over the spoon fed opinions of these "millenials" any day of the week.

Generalization? Sure. There are smart kids and there are dumb adults. I'd take this generalization over the one you keep spouting though.

[stevewinn]

16 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

No he's not. He's saying that Cameron gave the EU a chance to do the right thing for Britain and the EU rejected Britain's concerns. Somehow saying that the EU had a chance to do what was "right."

 

16 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

he's not, he's saying that what cameroon demanded of the EU was frankly deluded.

You are correct.

Captain Risky. you are incorrect.

16 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Thats were you are wrong. The UK is not set to benefit economically by taking a regressive step backward in trading with its neighbours. The UK is sacrificing privileged trade links and political strength to control its borders and laws. That is what Brexit is about. Its got nothing to do with economic considerations. Purely a populous knee jerk reaction.

Don't dress this up as something other than what it is. 

Simply not true, Post Brexit Britain will strive onwards.

  

[Katzenking]

What I don't like in this article is that it says Europe but means EU.
I don't think that Merkel is capable to destroy a continent (a big part of Russia also belongs to Europe, The UK will despite Brexit stay a part of Europe, Iceland was never in the EU but is part of Europe, ...).

Another mystery to me is that all these Brexiteers or Trump supporters always stamp around on Merkel instead of praising her.
For she is the true Mother of Brexit and she also is the Kingmaker in the US.
I have no doubt that without her 'help' with her open borders policy and the pictures of the asylum-seeker streams neither of these things would have happened.
I am no friend of conspiracies but I would not completely rule out that this was intentional (for whatever reasons), future will show...
Or it was unbelievable foolish.

Yes, I was against Brexit because I don't see any advantage whatsoever for myself.
On the other side if I would be a UK-citizen I had very likely also voted for Brexit because I don't like Juncker & Schulz, belong to the group of typical Brexit-voters (men in their middle age) and of course because of the fun later in the pub...

And yes, Steve is right, I also believe that it will be a big success economically.
They will have a lot of work to do with all these new trade-deals but with all these special relations and connections all over the world, I am sure it will work well for Britain.

This path however is much more difficult for other EU-countries. France, the Netherlands or Germany would not get better deals outside of the EU. They will stay in.
My problem with the EU is mainly because I hate that 'common currency' from the first day.
However I don't care how many immigrants from other EU-countries come here, or how much tax-payers money they pump into the EU as long as everything else works fine.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Katzenking

[Unusual Tournament]

On 10 January 2017 at 0:29 AM, stevewinn said:

 

You are correct.

Captain Risky. you are incorrect.

Simply not true, Post Brexit Britain will strive onwards.

  

Never said that it wouldn't. Post brexit Britain will just not have the opportunities and advantages that it currently enjoys in the EU. 

[stevewinn]

6 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Never said that it wouldn't. Post brexit Britain will just not have the opportunities and advantages that it currently enjoys in the EU. 

You could have fooled me with your long Anti-Brexit stance, but now with your position made clear agreeing the UK will flourish outside the EU - Well there you go then, But please remember the UK pays a high price for those EU opportunities and advantages you talk of, its not all milk and honey and as such the majority of the Great British Public have decided the disadvantages of EU membership now outweigh the ever decreasing advantages the EU once offered.

One disadvantage we had as EU members was the ability to conduct our own trade deals. The worlds fifth Largest economy was forbidden to negotiate its own trade deals. Brexit will turn this EU disadvantage to a UK advantage. As we've seen over the last 6 months countries queuing up to do trade deals with the UK, be it bilateral or Free Trade.
Even your very own Nation of Australia is on the record wanting a free trade deal with the UK something which is prevented by our current EU Membership. 43 years and the EU as never seen fit to sign a free trade deal with Oz. India, Japan, China, America, etc.... Time and Tide wait for no man. 

Press conference today in your neck of the woods, - New Zealand.

 

 

[itsnotoutthere]

 

[Unusual Tournament]

4 hours ago, stevewinn said:

You could have fooled me with your long Anti-Brexit stance, but now with your position made clear agreeing the UK will flourish outside the EU - Well there you go then, But please remember the UK pays a high price for those EU opportunities and advantages you talk of, its not all milk and honey and as such the majority of the Great British Public have decided the disadvantages of EU membership now outweigh the ever decreasing advantages the EU once offered.

One disadvantage we had as EU members was the ability to conduct our own trade deals. The worlds fifth Largest economy was forbidden to negotiate its own trade deals. Brexit will turn this EU disadvantage to a UK advantage. As we've seen over the last 6 months countries queuing up to do trade deals with the UK, be it bilateral or Free Trade.
Even your very own Nation of Australia is on the record wanting a free trade deal with the UK something which is prevented by our current EU Membership. 43 years and the EU as never seen fit to sign a free trade deal with Oz. India, Japan, China, America, etc.... Time and Tide wait for no man. 

Press conference today in your neck of the woods, - New Zealand.

 

 

I have no desire to fool any one. Why should i? If you can't get what Im saying cause all you see is the Union Jack who's fault is that? 

Britain tried it alone and it failed. What makes you feel that Britain will succeed this time around. The success that is the UK is wholly a product of the European collective. There is a reason for that. And its got nothing to do with limiting free trade. Britain already has free trade with the world. Its currently choking with free trade mate. You make it sound like the UK is being stymied and cheated out of opportunities. Rubbish! Britain will not be able to sign ANY deals without first concluding its ties to Europe and any deals will be subject to the results of that. Trading with your neighbours is more effective and develops your economy fast and better than trading half way around the world. Transport and free movement of goods and services facilitates more growth. Thats not to say that Britain won't be able to make it work... only that Britain won't IMO get a better deal. 

I could be wrong BUT conventional wisdom says that closing doors to trade on one side doesn't mean that a better outcome.

Remember steve... Britain didn't vote for more trade it voted for closed borders. Speaks volumes.  

[Grey Area]

42 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Britain tried it alone and it failed.

When was that failure then, and what form did failure take?

44 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 What makes you feel that Britain will succeed this time around.

This is not a TV show, that simplistic view of the history and constant process of evolution of a nation is childish.  Every nation has had shifts in fortune, and struggles.  Britain will do the best it can with what it has, untied from the bureaucracy of Brussels and safe from the free movement silliness.

55 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

I could be wrong BUT conventional wisdom says that closing doors to trade on one side doesn't mean that a better outcome.

And there we go again.  When leaving the EU, are we ceasing trade with Europe?  Come on you are smarter than that, the freedom to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world will more than offset any percentage points in potential WTO terms with the EU.

58 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Britain didn't vote for more trade it voted for closed borders. Speaks volumes.  

No no no it didn't.  What part of that do you and your like not get.  Immigration will continue as normal.  We voted away from unchecked free movement.  Are you seriously going to state that that is a good thing?  I think recent events have proved beyond doubt just how dangerous the EU policies on immigration are.  What does speak volumes is that the UK has not been subject to similar terrorist events as we have seen in France and Germany as we have so far managed to stay out of Shengen.  But that will not last if we stay.

[Black Red Devil]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

I have no desire to fool any one. Why should i? If you can't get what Im saying cause all you see is the Union Jack who's fault is that? 

Britain tried it alone and it failed. What makes you feel that Britain will succeed this time around. The success that is the UK is wholly a product of the European collective. There is a reason for that. And its got nothing to do with limiting free trade. Britain already has free trade with the world. Its currently choking with free trade mate. You make it sound like the UK is being stymied and cheated out of opportunities. Rubbish! Britain will not be able to sign ANY deals without first concluding its ties to Europe and any deals will be subject to the results of that. Trading with your neighbours is more effective and develops your economy fast and better than trading half way around the world. Transport and free movement of goods and services facilitates more growth. Thats not to say that Britain won't be able to make it work... only that Britain won't IMO get a better deal. 

I could be wrong BUT conventional wisdom says that closing doors to trade on one side doesn't mean that a better outcome.

Remember steve... Britain didn't vote for more trade it voted for closed borders. Speaks volumes.  

Good point and out of two doing deals one always benefits less than the other, specially the one in more desperate need.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Black Red Devil