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Angela Merkel is destroying Europe


The Truman show
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On 5 January 2017 at 0:25 AM, itsnotoutthere said:

Wrong.

Six months ago the British people were asked a simple question, a question by the way, that the others political parties had previously promised to ask us, but reneged on. The question was,

Do you want to remain a member of the E.U. (and all the comes with it e.g. closer political union,

open borders, more centralized government, possible fiscal union (the euro) a european army & ultimately, a federal europe,)

Or alternatively do you think Britain would be better out of it?

There was a campaign for many months leading up to the vote, to the point where you couldn't pick up a news paper or switch on the t.v. without somebody telling you how important it was that you should vote. The people cast their votes in their millions (very high turn out) and even the final date was extended to allow more people to vote. The people voted to leave. In the lead up to the vote lies were bandied about on both sides as it always is during elections. If you're daft enough to fall for those lies then that is your problem. When the remain camp lied that there would be an emergency budget if we voted leave, I didn't believe them, likewise when the leave camp said they'd spend £350 on the NHS if we left I didn't believe them either. Ultimately I and i'm sure the vast majority of the population made their decision on 40 years experience of already being in the E.U. and seeing which way it was heading. And if anything at all tipped the balance it was probably that moment of madness by Heir Merkel.

After that big campaign leading up to the vote (remember, the remain side had £10 million of tax payers money to play with) I have no time for all those idiots that couldn't be bothered to vote & are now whining because it didn't go their way.

Bolded: Yes it was a very simple question for a very complex ask. Cameron is/was an idiot to not have defined what brexit really was. Think about it... you can still stay part of the EU without a say in its affairs (soft brexit) or you can leave with out anything (hard brexit). Can't have it both ways thinking that you will meet in the middle. That my friend is delusional! Hence why brexit will ultimately fail and the Britain will eventually re-apply. Not because hard brexit can't work BUT because soft brexit/membership is primarily better.

 

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On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 0:33 AM, Captain Risky said:

Well for someone that wants to back me up you've been quiet.

Well some of us do have a life outside of this website you know.

Quote

The point I was making is that there has been war and division between England and the rest of the UK for over a 1000 years. 

Just... go and learn your history...

Quote

Give them a chance to vote and they'll probably go there own way.

Again, we did. They didn't.

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20 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

you can still stay part of the EU without a say in its affairs (soft brexit)

Whatever would be the advantage of that? Would the Brits still have to accept EU decision making and regulations and so on? 

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19 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Whatever would be the advantage of that? Would the Brits still have to accept EU decision making and regulations and so on? 

You see Manfred that's exactly what Boris and Nigel campaigned on. They promised that the UK could keep all its EU privileges without any responsibilities like open borders and the EU dictating new trade laws. You're right. There are no advantages to soft brexit over full membership.

That's precisely why Theresa May is trying to pursue a negotiated hard brexit. Impossible since the EU won't allow the UK to have its cake and eat it too. 

Hard brexit is where this is headed. 

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7 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

You see Manfred that's exactly what Boris and Nigel campaigned on. They promised that the UK could keep all its EU privileges without any responsibilities like open borders and the EU dictating new trade laws. You're right. There are no advantages to soft brexit over full membership.

That's precisely why Theresa May is trying to pursue a negotiated hard brexit. Impossible since the EU won't allow the UK to have its cake and eat it too. 

Hard brexit is where this is headed. 

Let's pull this back to your original topic shall we.

"Angela Merkel is destroying Europe"

"responsibilities like open borders"

What exactly do you think individual member states of the EU should do when Brussels bureaucracy/Merkel's wishes ride roughshod over national interests/common sense? We (Britain) as one of the most influential members couldn't stop the madness from within. How much chance do the less influential members have over the future of their own nations?

I don't want to harp on about it either, but as an Australian, how would you feel about having your own country's interests superseded by an ambitious continental superstate? Seems to me you guys are strict on the vegetables you allow into your country, let alone the people...

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3 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Let's pull this back to your original topic shall we.

"Angela Merkel is destroying Europe"

"responsibilities like open borders"

What exactly do you think individual member states of the EU should do when Brussels bureaucracy/Merkel's wishes ride roughshod over national interests/common sense? We (Britain) as one of the most influential members couldn't stop the madness from within. How much chance do the less influential members have over the future of their own nations?

I don't want to harp on about it either, but as an Australian, how would you feel about having your own country's interests superseded by an ambitious continental superstate? Seems to me you guys are strict on the vegetables you allow into your country, let alone the people...

Brother you got me all wrong. Your country should do what it thinks is right. All I'm saying is that you should seperate the wheat from the chaff. There are the facts and there is the political lies and deceit. The British people have been lied to and its not from the EU. 

...as far as Australia is concerned, mate. What 'continental superstate' are you talking about?  

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53 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

You see Manfred that's exactly what Boris and Nigel campaigned on. They promised that the UK could keep all its EU privileges without any responsibilities like open borders and the EU dictating new trade laws. You're right. There are no advantages to soft brexit over full membership.

That's precisely why Theresa May is trying to pursue a negotiated hard brexit. Impossible since the EU won't allow the UK to have its cake and eat it too. 

Hard brexit is where this is headed. 

Hard Brexit is what's wanted, we were not lied to and knew exactly what we were voting for, is there one Brexiteer on this site who didn't want 'hard Brexit'?

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1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

...as far as Australia is concerned, mate. What 'continental superstate' are you talking about?  

I'm obviously speaking hypothetically. If you want to try and understand the mindset, you need to try and place yourself in someone elses' position.

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8 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Hard Brexit is what's wanted, we were not lied to and knew exactly what we were voting for, is there one Brexiteer on this site who didn't want 'hard Brexit'?

.

Of course, when we voted it was just for Brexit - there was no hard or soft or par boiled ...

But I do think that if 'hard' and 'soft' Brexit actually existed and had been an additional choice then 'hard'
would have won the day - in fact there could have been a swell of Remainers going for 'soft' :D 
and that would have boosted the final numbers -

I think people against the referendum result just like to confuse matters with the hard and soft thing -
I expect the likes of Tony Blair and Nick Clegg and Gina Miller's husband and banker friends all got
together in the back room of an expensive restaurant somewhere in London and cooked up the soft
brexit option as the next best thing to remaining -- bless 'em -- :rolleyes:

.

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9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Brother you got me all wrong. Your country should do what it thinks is right. All I'm saying is that you should seperate the wheat from the chaff. There are the facts and there is the political lies and deceit. The British people have been lied to and its not from the EU. 

...as far as Australia is concerned, mate. What 'continental superstate' are you talking about?  

.

Ahhhh the human lie detector in action --;) - on the one hand we have the alleged lies from both camps -

(or does Captain Lie Detector claim only the Leave Camp lied..? )

Then we have the Pure-As-The-Driven-Snow EU politicians who are honest about everything and couldn't possibly
tell a porky pie even if their existence (and wages) depended on it......:ph34r:

:P

.

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10 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

 

...as far as Australia is concerned, mate. What 'continental superstate' are you talking about?  

The Greater South East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere? 

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1 hour ago, bee said:

.

Ahhhh the human lie detector in action --;) - on the one hand we have the alleged lies from both camps -

(or does Captain Lie Detector claim only the Leave Camp lied..? )

Then we have the Pure-As-The-Driven-Snow EU politicians who are honest about everything and couldn't possibly
tell a porky pie even if their existence (and wages) depended on it......:ph34r:

:P

.

Captain Risky, Seems to forget the time line of the Referendum. We were lied to he says. But lets just to remind him, David Cameron the Prime Minister of the Day held the referendum based on the package of a reformed European Union. He went to the European Union asking for basically nothing and came back with even less. based on these negotiations He came back to the UK triumphant with what he considered to be a good deal. - He then put that "deal" to the British Public. - the Public looked at the deal which was a crock of $hit, and more importantly how the EU was unwilling reform in any meaningful way. It was on that bases the Referendum was put to the British Public. What should have followed was a campaign to show us the benefits of the being members of the EU. That lasted all but a day - because once you get down to the bones of it the EU offers the UK absolutely nothing we cannot do for ourselves and as a result the Remain side had nothing to offer but fear stories of biblical proportions and as a result they lost the day, they gave it their best shot but it just wasn't good enough.

As a result the EU is to lose free access to its single biggest market, 15% of its GDP is walking out the door and with 5 new very poor countries preparing to join the EU in the coming years, the EU is going to have to make up that shortfall as these poorer countries will be NET beneficiaries not a NET contributor - with the UK out of the EU the hole in the EU's budget is facing a shortfall of 32% - Whose going to pay for that? let the individual parliaments try and sell that to their people.

What i fail to understand with Captain Risky, he hasn't got a dog in this fight, - does he not realise that both the UK and Australia are set to benefit after Brexit. in that we will both be able to sign trade agreements or even a free trade agreement which will boost both our economies and create jobs. - and that's before we move onto travel, as it currently stands if your Australian and want to work here or stay longer than 3 months you need a visa. - but you'll only be allowed in if you have the right skills and in the right category IE: tier 1,2 or 3. because that's right, the UK controls immigration from outside the EU. - But we allow or let in any Tom Dick or Harry from the EU without question regardless of skill set whether they have a job or not. So leaving the EU will stop us being forced to discriminate. As part of a trade deal between the UK and Australia we can see a relaxation of Visa requirements for both work and travel. - But you keep banging the wrong drum Captain. The EU is dead follow the numbers.

 

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Ugh...all of this is just part of our worldwide shift away from democracy, which has been fueled by Putin. Divide and conquer is an old game, and it's working so well right now because so many are afraid of brown people. 

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44 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Ugh...all of this is just part of our worldwide shift away from democracy, which has been fueled by Putin. Divide and conquer is an old game, and it's working so well right now because so many are afraid of brown people. 

You've made the 'race card' worthless.

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5 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

You've made the 'race card' worthless.

I'm sure I could have made it more palatable by using "xenophobic" in there somewhere. The problem is that "xenophobia" seems to crop up only when there are brown people or Jews. 

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1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

Ugh...all of this is just part of our worldwide shift away from democracy, which has been fueled by Putin. Divide and conquer is an old game, and it's working so well right now because so many are afraid of brown people. 

What country are you referring to when you say - a shift away from democracy?

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On 29 December 2016 at 3:46 AM, Captain Risky said:

Perpetual and disrespectful? What about the other significant 48% that have become persona non grata's in their own country's brexit debate... what's wrong with advocating for them?

The other 48% were Scotland and central London (the Scots hate the English didn't you know) & (the rich in London think the rest of us are scum anyway).

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On 28 December 2016 at 5:56 AM, Captain Risky said:

That's crap! Brexiteers like yourself have made moaning about the EU for all the various frivolous reasons a 40 year "love affair." This silly but well meant gesture from Merkel is unfortunately ammo for everyone that hates Europe. So please don't talk about immigration as a destructive issue when no country has ever gained more from the inflow and outflow of immigrants, than Britain. In this case Europe choose the wrong immigrants to open the door too and at the wrong time.

Anyway... The point of posting this is that Germany and Merkel in particular, has far too much power to dictate to Europe. Europe is lopsided and with the disengagement of the UK its only gonna worse.

No country has ever what??

 

Because of migrants there's not enough housing period. The people who benefit from the huge hike in housing prices are those who leave the UK after making a huge amount of money (the majority of whom are not English. We've all heard the false stories about how more people leave the UK than arrive (although that has gone silent now we're leaving) and if the stories are true then we'll see a huge drop in prices when immigration is capped. Yes the poor ones will stay but the richest will leave.. Where will that get us?

Oh, and the "We need them for future pensions tripe is also a non starter.. Who will pay for theirs? More migrants?

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1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

I'm sure I could have made it more palatable by using "xenophobic" in there somewhere. The problem is that "xenophobia" seems to crop up only when there are brown people or Jews. 

Who cares about  palatable, when i say 'you've made it worthless' i mean you've made it worthless, shout it from the rooftops no one cares, white lives mater.

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2 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

I'm sure I could have made it more palatable by using "xenophobic" in there somewhere. The problem is that "xenophobia" seems to crop up only when there are brown people or Jews. 

Yes, that's true. Racism is a one way street. No cracker has ever been a victim of rascism, ever.

I watch the white music awards every year? No I don't I'm lying as the white music awards doesn't exist & would be considered racist here in England.

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9 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Captain Risky, Seems to forget the time line of the Referendum. We were lied to he says. But lets just to remind him, David Cameron the Prime Minister of the Day held the referendum based on the package of a reformed European Union. He went to the European Union asking for basically nothing and came back with even less. based on these negotiations He came back to the UK triumphant with what he considered to be a good deal. - He then put that "deal" to the British Public. - the Public looked at the deal which was a crock of $hit, and more importantly how the EU was unwilling reform in any meaningful way. It was on that bases the Referendum was put to the British Public. What should have followed was a campaign to show us the benefits of the being members of the EU. That lasted all but a day - because once you get down to the bones of it the EU offers the UK absolutely nothing we cannot do for ourselves and as a result the Remain side had nothing to offer but fear stories of biblical proportions and as a result they lost the day, they gave it their best shot but it just wasn't good enough.

As a result the EU is to lose free access to its single biggest market, 15% of its GDP is walking out the door and with 5 new very poor countries preparing to join the EU in the coming years, the EU is going to have to make up that shortfall as these poorer countries will be NET beneficiaries not a NET contributor - with the UK out of the EU the hole in the EU's budget is facing a shortfall of 32% - Whose going to pay for that? let the individual parliaments try and sell that to their people.

What i fail to understand with Captain Risky, he hasn't got a dog in this fight, - does he not realise that both the UK and Australia are set to benefit after Brexit. in that we will both be able to sign trade agreements or even a free trade agreement which will boost both our economies and create jobs. - and that's before we move onto travel, as it currently stands if your Australian and want to work here or stay longer than 3 months you need a visa. - but you'll only be allowed in if you have the right skills and in the right category IE: tier 1,2 or 3. because that's right, the UK controls immigration from outside the EU. - But we allow or let in any Tom Dick or Harry from the EU without question regardless of skill set whether they have a job or not. So leaving the EU will stop us being forced to discriminate. As part of a trade deal between the UK and Australia we can see a relaxation of Visa requirements for both work and travel. - But you keep banging the wrong drum Captain. The EU is dead follow the numbers.

 

David Cameron went to the EU looking for a privileged partnership within the EU and was rightly rejected. He tried to black mail the EU with a referendum. Then he put up a vague question to referendum. The rest is history. Why are you bringing this up now? Do you think that Britain was somehow badly treated for asking more than the rest of the EU was getting? 

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3 hours ago, SNR said:

The other 48% were Scotland and central London (the Scots hate the English didn't you know) & (the rich in London think the rest of us are scum anyway).

Sounds like Britain is ripe for a class war. 

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12 hours ago, bee said:

.

Of course, when we voted it was just for Brexit - there was no hard or soft or par boiled ...

But I do think that if 'hard' and 'soft' Brexit actually existed and had been an additional choice then 'hard'
would have won the day
- in fact there could have been a swell of Remainers going for 'soft' :D 
and that would have boosted the final numbers -

I think people against the referendum result just like to confuse matters with the hard and soft thing -
I expect the likes of Tony Blair and Nick Clegg and Gina Miller's husband and banker friends all got
together in the back room of an expensive restaurant somewhere in London and cooked up the soft
brexit option as the next best thing to remaining -- bless 'em -- :rolleyes:

.

Lets assume the people were informed about soft, hard and par-boiled brexit and they voted accordingly. If the soft and par-boiled punters only made up 10% NOT 50% of the brexit group then the remain camp would have won. Now imagine if they were 50%...

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3 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Sounds like Britain is ripe for a class war. 

I don't think so, much as Ali would probably want itt. The votes for were, as pointed out, very largely in Scotland and in L:ondon, England as a whole, regardless of class, predominantly voted Out. 

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5 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Ugh...all of this is just part of our worldwide shift away from democracy, which has been fueled by Putin. Divide and conquer is an old game, and it's working so well right now because so many are afraid of brown people. 

Yay, ten Putin points (it's the equivalent of Godwin points awarded for bringing the Global Supervillain into everything, regardless of whether it's relevant or not) for bring the Global Supervillain in, whether it's relevant to the argument or not. Unless you are trying to suggest that Brext was yet another thing, like Trump, that was engineered by the Global Supervillain in pursuance of his plans to rule the world? 

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