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Angela Merkel is destroying Europe


The Truman show
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3 hours ago, Grey Area said:

When was that failure then, and what form did failure take?

Britain begged the EU to join. Its motives were two fold. To modernise its economy with a larger market. And to influence events in Europe. Up until that point Britain was an industrial waste land heavily unionised. Along cam the EU and then Thatcher. That awful women Thatcher then decided to attack the EU while at the same time instituted the very principles of free and competitive trade in Britain as there was in Europe.

...and now there is a sub culture of modern day thatcherites hell bent on continuing to demonise free trade in Europe so they can still trade with the rest of the world. It seems the only way for a politician to prove he's British these day's is to wave the Union Jack and build barriers. Sad. Needless to say I find it slightly amusing that the greatest proponents of free trade also happen to be the biggest foes of free trade within Europe. Really is counter productive don't you think?

3 hours ago, Grey Area said:

This is not a TV show, that simplistic view of the history and constant process of evolution of a nation is childish.  Every nation has had shifts in fortune, and struggles.  Britain will do the best it can with what it has, untied from the bureaucracy of Brussels and safe from the free movement silliness.

I wholeheartedly concur with the above quote. BUT for the sake of fairness i must unfortunately disagree that the EU dictating the mechanism and rules for free trade is any different from being dictated from another country. As if America or China will be any less demanding.

3 hours ago, Grey Area said:

And there we go again.  When leaving the EU, are we ceasing trade with Europe?  Come on you are smarter than that, the freedom to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world will more than offset any percentage points in potential WTO terms with the EU.

Don't know where you came up with that? I never said that and to the best of my knowledge neither did Alibongo and he's twice the remainder anyone here is. But lets take this in the same direction but at another angle... Britain still trades with the rest of the world too. Robbing Peter to pay Paul? Britain will have less bargaining power to sign free trade agreements cause of its size and less say in Europe cause of barriers. So what has Britain to gain? 

3 hours ago, Grey Area said:

No no no it didn't.  What part of that do you and your like not get.  Immigration will continue as normal.  We voted away from unchecked free movement.  Are you seriously going to state that that is a good thing?  I think recent events have proved beyond doubt just how dangerous the EU policies on immigration are.  What does speak volumes is that the UK has not been subject to similar terrorist events as we have seen in France and Germany as we have so far managed to stay out of Shengen.  But that will not last if we stay.

...of course immigration will continue. Immigrants and migrants have been scapegoated to push a silly point. Britain will still unfortunately suffer from terrorism after it leaves Europe, too. I have yet to hear of one logical argument as to why Britain has an advantage leaving Europe. If someone comes up with one i will reverse my position. But i doubt it.

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8 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Britain begged the EU to join. Its motives were two fold. To modernise its economy with a larger market. And to influence events in Europe. Up until that point Britain was an industrial waste land heavily unionised. Along cam the EU and then Thatcher. That awful women Thatcher then decided to attack the EU while at the same time instituted the very principles of free and competitive trade in Britain as there was in Europe.

...and now there is a sub culture of modern day thatcherites hell bent on continuing to demonise free trade in Europe so they can still trade with the rest of the world. It seems the only way for a politician to prove he's British these day's is to wave the Union Jack and build barriers. Sad. Needless to say I find it slightly amusing that the greatest proponents of free trade also happen to be the biggest foes of free trade within Europe. Really is counter productive don't you think?

I wholeheartedly concur with the above quote. BUT for the sake of fairness i must unfortunately disagree that the EU dictating the mechanism and rules for free trade is any different from being dictated from another country. As if America or China will be any less demanding.

Don't know where you came up with that? I never said that and to the best of my knowledge neither did Alibongo and he's twice the remainder anyone here is. But lets take this in the same direction but at another angle... Britain still trades with the rest of the world too. Robbing Peter to pay Paul? Britain will have less bargaining power to sign free trade agreements cause of its size and less say in Europe cause of barriers. So what has Britain to gain? 

...of course immigration will continue. Immigrants and migrants have been scapegoated to push a silly point. Britain will still unfortunately suffer from terrorism after it leaves Europe, too. I have yet to hear of one logical argument as to why Britain has an advantage leaving Europe. If someone comes up with one i will reverse my position. But i doubt it.

Captain Risky, its pretty clear like we've long suspected and known you don't fully understand the dynamics of the UK's relationship with the EU. All you've done is read the article from the FT below to formulate a response to Greay Area.

7 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

 

I would be interested in your view of the below article from the FT. Tell me were you disagree with the effect of British membership of the EU.

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

 

Grey Area, read the FT link (above) then Read Captain Risky reply to yourself (i've quoted it above)

Capitan Risky you are making a mistakes reading from Pro-EU papers, its akin to reading Wikipedia then thinking you understand the subject. How long exactly have you been following the Political relationship between the UK and EU?

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9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Britain begged the EU to join. Its motives were two fold. To modernise its economy with a larger market. And to influence events in Europe. Up until that point Britain was an industrial waste land heavily unionised. Along cam the EU and then Thatcher. That awful women Thatcher then decided to attack the EU while at the same time instituted the very principles of free and competitive trade in Britain as there was in Europe.

You do have some peculiar ideas. Britain joined the EEC in 1973, and far from the economy suddenly blossoming into a glorious spring of prosperity, it got worse and worse and worse than ever, culminating in the Winter of Discontent that brought the Awful Woman to power. The EEC could hardly claim much credit for salvaging the British economy. 

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9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

.and now there is a sub culture of modern day thatcherites hell bent on continuing to demonise free trade in Europe so they can still trade with the rest of the world. It seems the only way for a politician to prove he's British these day's is to wave the Union Jack and build barriers. Sad. Needless to say I find it slightly amusing that the greatest proponents of free trade also happen to be the biggest foes of free trade within Europe

The strange ideas continue. I can only presume that you have the idea that the EU is all about a happy community of free trade from what you read in the press, and from the endless copy 'n' pastes that your friend Ali ("twice the remainder anyone here is!") contributes. Do you honestly not know about the EU's ever closer centralisation of power, and the way it treats those "member states" that don't hand over control of their econimies to it in their entirety?  

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1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

Captain Risky, its pretty clear like we've long suspected and known you don't fully understand the dynamics of the UK's relationship with the EU. All you've done is read the article from the FT below to formulate a response to Greay Area.

Of course i read the article and drew forth facts. Its the FT ffs. Way more credible and knowledgeable than the telegraph you read and quote ad hoc. 

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47 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

The strange ideas continue. I can only presume that you have the idea that the EU is all about a happy community of free trade from what you read in the press, and from the endless copy 'n' pastes that your friend Ali ("twice the remainder anyone here is!") contributes. Do you honestly not know about the EU's ever closer centralisation of power, and the way it treats those "member states" that don't hand over control of their econimies to it in their entirety?  

There is no happy community of anything. So why would you think that i think so? There are facts and there is a political agenda. Let's face it... Britain was never a willing partner of the EU. It didn't matter who was in power whether it was Major, Cameron or Blair they all kept the EU at arms length. British politicians made bashing the EU a national pastime and consequently a spectator sport. I could really care less. I just can't stand the lies and flip flopping that is going on. Pretending that nationalism will deliver a better future will be very entertaining to watch and especially among the EU. Im just looking forward to who is gonna become the next British bad guy. And from the quickness and acceptance of Britains decision to leave i think the EU couldn't care less either way. The EU will move forward and so will Britain. 

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1 hour ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

The strange ideas continue. I can only presume that you have the idea that the EU is all about a happy community of free trade from what you read in the press, and from the endless copy 'n' pastes that your friend Ali ("twice the remainder anyone here is!") contributes. Do you honestly not know about the EU's ever closer centralisation of power, and the way it treats those "member states" that don't hand over control of their econimies to it in their entirety?  

You mean the cruel way in which the EU bailed out Ireland, Spain, Italy and Greece. They bailed out Greece three times. Did Britain contribute or help? No they didn't but you brexiteers have no problem vilifying the EU as some cruel monster. Anyway the UK has chosen European isolation, the EU will oblige and after the Americans and Chinese have their way with the UK i expect similar threads appearing in the U.S. forum whinging about the new big bad overlords. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

I could really care less.

You've certainly shown it.  

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3 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Of course i read the article and drew forth facts. Its the FT ffs. Way more credible and knowledgeable than the telegraph you read and quote ad hoc. 

This is my point exactly, you should have knowledge yourself after all you have been following events. perfect example in my reply below.

3 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

You mean the cruel way in which the EU bailed out Ireland, Spain, Italy and Greece. They bailed out Greece three times. Did Britain contribute or help? No they didn't but you brexiteers have no problem vilifying the EU as some cruel monster. Anyway the UK has chosen European isolation, the EU will oblige and after the Americans and Chinese have their way with the UK i expect similar threads appearing in the U.S. forum whinging about the new big bad overlords. 

You have made a mistake again, If you relied upon your knowledge of events over the years and cast your mind back you'd have remembered that the UK did in fact contribute to the bailout of Greece, Portugal and Ireland to the tune of Billions, showing once again that even though we have no say in the Eurozone or vote when the chips where down the UK still coughed up the money to help those economies in trouble. It wasn't until 2015 when the UK said it would no longer contribute to any future bailouts. plus the interest rate Britain charged was 3% compared to the EU's charge of 6%.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it. so get your facts right.

 

Edited by stevewinn
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4 hours ago, stevewinn said:

This is my point exactly, you should have knowledge yourself after all you have been following events. perfect example in my reply below.

You have made a mistake again, If you relied upon your knowledge of events over the years and cast your mind back you'd have remembered that the UK did in fact contribute to the bailout of Greece, Portugal and Ireland to the tune of Billions, showing once again that even though we have no say in the Eurozone or vote when the chips where down the UK still coughed up the money to help those economies in trouble. It wasn't until 2015 when the UK said it would no longer contribute to any future bailouts. plus the interest rate Britain charged was 3% compared to the EU's charge of 6%.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it. so get your facts right.

 

I could be wrong on this. Do us a favour stevewinn and post a link for your claim that Britain helped with the bailouts and in particular Greece. :)

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Surely since the generosity of the EU came from the European Central Bank , it would come from what every member country paid into it, it wasn't like each country had a whip-round out of the sheer generosity of their hearts. 

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8 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

You mean the cruel way in which the EU bailed out Ireland, Spain, Italy and Greece. They bailed out Greece three times. Did Britain contribute or help? No they didn't but you brexiteers have no problem vilifying the EU as some cruel monster. Anyway the UK has chosen European isolation, the EU will oblige and after the Americans and Chinese have their way with the UK i expect similar threads appearing in the U.S. forum whinging about the new big bad overlords. 

Heh the same countries have huge economic problems

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On 13/01/2017 at 9:30 PM, Captain Risky said:

If you can't get what Im saying cause all you see is the Union Jack who's fault is that?

There's only one person here that can't see beyond the Union Jack, and that is you. That little corner of your national flag still a bugbear is it?

Feel free to play the "xenophobia" angle again, and then look it up in the dictionary along with "hypocritical" :tu:

10 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

I could really care less.

Sure... that's why you've made so many posts on Brexit in the last six months. You don't even see this kind of rabidity from non-nationals in emotive domestic topics such as gun control in The States.

Please, tell us again that you don't care. I'll have a needle and thread ready in case my sides split with laughter.

I'm sure you'll be glad to hear I don't hold Australia responsible. You live in a beautiful country, with a people who I've always thought have a very similar mindset to the Brits. A pity you don't view us in the same manner.

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8 hours ago, LV-426 said:

 

Sure... that's why you've made so many posts on Brexit in the last six months.

.

The Captain has taken over from our old friend 'questionmark' who was similarly prolific and obsessed with Brexit -

;)......:whistle:

.

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I miss QM and his daily threads about D***** T****. 

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36 minutes ago, bee said:

.

The Captain has taken over from our old friend 'questionmark' who was similarly prolific and obsessed with Brexit -

;)......:whistle:

.

I'm not talking to myself, bee. Obsession is a two way street in this instance. 

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12 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Surely since the generosity of the EU came from the European Central Bank , it would come from what every member country paid into it, it wasn't like each country had a whip-round out of the sheer generosity of their hearts. 

That it did but the UK had to be dragged by the short and curly's to do so.   

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9 hours ago, LV-426 said:

I'm sure you'll be glad to hear I don't hold Australia responsible. You live in a beautiful country, with a people who I've always thought have a very similar mindset to the Brits. A pity you don't view us in the same manner.

I view the 48% in the same manner. 

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Has it ever been made clear why you hold the population of a country 9,000 or so miles from you in such contempt? Is it some old colonial resentment against the Poms? So can I presume you'd be eager for Australian independence and to shake off the last remaining ties to the Old Country? So why do you have such disdain for the Old country wishing to do the same with a multinational superstate that has much more power than the Old country has ever had over Oz?

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Just now, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Has it ever been made clear why you hold the population of a country 9,000 or so miles from you in such contempt? Is it some old colonial resentment against the Poms? So can I presume you'd be eager for Australian independence and to shake off the last remaining ties to the Old Country? So why do you have such disdain for the Old country wishing to do the same with a multinational superstate that has much more power than the Old country has ever had over Oz?

Tell me... where have i held your country in contempt? Sure I'm an Australian republican. That's no secret. But calling me anti UK cause i agree with 48% of the voters and not the other 52% is a ridiculous position. Again prove it.

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20 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

There is no happy community of anything. So why would you think that i think so? There are facts and there is a political agenda. Let's face it... Britain was never a willing partner of the EU. It didn't matter who was in power whether it was Major, Cameron or Blair they all kept the EU at arms length. 

.

They were mindful of the public's reluctance when it came to their personal political ambitions -

BUT

Cameron campaigned like his political life at the top depended on staying in the EU , in the lead up to the referendum,, (oh wait...!! ^_^)

Major shook off the dust to join Blair to campaign in NI to stay in and at the same time help to create a wedge between Northern
Ireland and England / Wales - regarding numbers whether to Leave or Remain - 

And Blair -- c'mon ---- he would like to be 'King' of Europe via the European Union  and here's a quote from him --

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/16/euro.eu

May 15 2002 


Tony Blair told Newsnight's Jeremy Paxman he would be happy to be remembered as the man who told the British people they should join the single currency and that a political rejection of the euro would be "crazy".

"I certainly believe passionately that this country and its destiny lies in Europe.

 

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4 minutes ago, bee said:

Tony Blair told Newsnight's Jeremy Paxman he would be happy to be remembered as the man who told the British people they should join the single currency

I bet he would. Note that he'd like to be remembered as the one who told the People what they should do. A telling choice of words that. 

 

 

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He admitted: "Even if it [taking Britain into the euro] is unpopular, I will recommend it if it is the right thing to do." :yes: 

How's that for an example of trust those who know better than the ignorant masses, Ali and Cap'n?

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