Popular Post Carnoferox Posted December 28, 2016 Popular Post #1 Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) Three of the known mandibles of Gigantopithecus. Image courtesy of Zhang et al. 2016. Overview Gigantopithecus is a genus of large apes from Miocene-Pleistocene of southern Asia. There are two species of Gigantopithecus: G. blacki (von Koenigswald, 1935) and G. giganteus (Pilgrim, 1915 [originally Dryopithecus]). A commonly-listed third species, G. bilaspurensis (Simons and Chopra, 1969), is actually a junior synonym of G. giganteus. G. blacki is known from the Pleistocene (c. 1.9-0.1 Ma) of China, Vietnam, and Thailand, while G. giganteus is known from the Late Miocene (c. 9.2-8.1 Ma) of India and Pakistan. Gigantopithecus is currently known from five fossil mandibles (four from G. blacki, one from G. giganteus) and thousands of isolated teeth. G. blacki has been estimated to have stood around 3 meters tall (when standing up on its hind legs) and weighed between 270 and 500 kilograms, while G. giganteus was closer to half that size. Some paleontologists consider G. giganteus to be the ancestor of G. blacki, while others place it in its own genus, Indopithecus. This article will be concerned with G. blacki, as it is the species that prominently features in Bigfoot research. Anthropologist and cryptozoologist Grover Krantz was one of the first to propose that Bigfoot represented a surviving population of Gigantopithecus. Krantz believed that Gigantopithecus blacki had migrated across the Bering Land Bridge during the last Ice Age and had adapted to the climate and habitat of the Pacific Northwest. He even went so far as to designate casts of supposed Bigfoot prints as the type specimens of Gigantopithecus canadensis (a designation that was rejected by scientists). Since then the "Bigfoot is Gigantopithecus" hypothesis has become commonly accepted among the Bigfoot researching community. However, this hypothesis has numerous major flaws and as a whole can be easily refuted, as it is based on outdated and inaccurate information. Phylogeny A modern cladogram of the Hominoidea, showing the currently accepted placement of Gigantopithecus. When describing the first known teeth of Gigantopithecus in 1935, German paleoanthropologist G.H.R. von Koenigswald originally classified it as a non-hominin ape. However, his colleague Franz Weidenreich later studied the teeth and instead argued for a hominin identity for Gigantopithecus in his 1946 book Apes, Giants, and Man. Weidenrich was known for his unconventional views on human evolution. He believed that the evolution of humans was completely linear, with a continuity of one form evolving directly into another. He also thought that Gigantopithecus represented a giant stage in human evolution, even suggesting to rename it Gigantanthropus (meaning "giant man"). Weidenreich was a large influence on Krantz, as he shared the same view of a linear human evolution. Krantz held that Gigantopithecus was a giant, bipedal hominin closely related to humans, which he thought fit the description of Bigfoot closely. Later researchers like David Frayer and Elwyn Simons would note similarities between the dentitions of Gigantopithecus and Australopithecus, which seemed to further support its placement as a hominin. However, others disagreed with this classification of Gigantopithecus. In 1970, David Pilbeam first argued that Gigantopithecus belonged to the Ponginae, rather than the Homininae, forming a clade with the modern orangutan (genus Pongo) and extinct genera like Sivapithecus and Ouranopithecus. Pilbeam noted that the similarities between the teeth of Gigantopithecus and hominins were convergently evolved because of a similar diet, not actually indicating a close relationship. Gigantopithecus has thick molar enamel (as do orangutans) and small canines, once thought to be diagnostic traits of hominins. However, dentition actually varies greatly among apes (according to diet rather than phylogeny), and these traits are no longer considered to be strictly hominin. Over time, as the result of newer discoveries and more in-depth analyses, the classification of Gigantopithecus as a member of the Ponginae has become widely accepted amongst paleontologists. Krantz's idea of Gigantopithecus as a bipedal hominin is obsolete; there are significant differences between the understood morphology of Gigantopithecus and that typically reported of Bigfoot. Morphology Although no postcranial remains are currently known for Gigantopithecus, its overall morphology can be inferred from its close relatives. Gigantopithecus would likely have been mostly quadrupedal and would have walked on its fists like modern orangutans. This is in contrast to the upright bipedality almost always reported in Bigfoot sightings. Krantz argued for bipedality in Gigantopithecus based on that he believed it to be a hominin and that the jaw widened towards the rear. Krantz reasoned that the neck would have connected to the head between the sides of the lower jaw, sitting on top of the shoulders in an upright position like a human. However, jaw width does not always correspond with neck position, nor does it indicate bipedality, as most vertebrates have jaws that widen posteriorly. Like the orangutan, the neck of Gigantopithecus would have actually been attached farther back on the skull. Considering that Gigantopithecus would have had a greater mass than any living ape, a quadrupedal stance would be better suited for supporting its weight. As it was not a hominin, Gigantopithecus would have had to evolve bipedality independently, which is highly unlikely. Another problem is that Gigantopithecus would have had a five-toed foot with a separate, opposable big toe, a feature lacking from Bigfoot prints. Bigfoot prints more closely resemble those of a human, with all five (sometimes four) toes grouped together. Additionally, Gigantopithecus feet would have had longer individual digits than the typical Bigfoot print. Grover Krantz holding his reconstruction of the skull of Gigantopithecus, compared to the skulls of Sivapithecus and an orangutan. Something not commonly addressed is Krantz's erroneous reconstruction of the skull of Gigantopithecus. Krantz's skull has a flat, human-like face, a feature reported in some Bigfoot encounters. It seems to be based on Paranthropus and other australopithecines, in line with Krantz's view of Gigantopithecus being a hominin. In reality, Gigantopithecus' skull would have more closely resembled those of other pongines like Sivapithecus and the orangutan. Krantz's lower jaw is too robust, the skull too wide, and the overall form too hominin. It should have a more sloping profile with a narrower width, akin to other pongines. Unfortunately, this inaccurate skull continues to be used in various reconstructions. The diet of Gigantopithecus is known far better than its postcranial morphology. Based on analyses of phytoliths (fossilized plant particles) and carbon isotopes on the teeth of Gigantopithecus, there is a relatively complete understanding of its diet. Phytolith analyses revealed that it subsisted mainly on grasses (especially bamboo), fruits, and seeds, similar to the diet of the modern orangutan, albeit more specialized. Based on isotopic analyses, Gigantopithecus consumed only plants that utilized the C3 method of carbon fixation. C3 plants are more commonly found in forests, such as bamboo forests of Southeast Asia that Gigantopithecus inhabited, while C4 plants are more commonly found in grasslands. This presents a problem with crossing the Bering Land Bridge, as C4 grasses would have been only plants growing on the tundras and steppes of Siberia and Beringia. Gigantopithecus would not have been able to cross thousands of miles without any sustenance, making a migration to North America impossible. Gigantopithecus was a specialized animal that went extinct because of its inability to adapt to changing climactic conditions. Due to periodic die-offs of bamboo and the reduction of its forest habitat, Gigantopithecus went extinct in south China by 0.3 Ma, disappearing altogether from Southeast Asia around 0.1 Ma. This is a far cry from Krantz's idea that Gigantopithecus was able to migrate thousands of miles and adapt to a completely foreign habitat. Distribution A map of some of the Gigantopithecus blacki localities (black dots). Image courtesy of Bocherens et al. 2015. The fossil record indicates that the range of Gigantopithecus blacki was restricted to Southeast Asia, problematic for a supposed North American population. Aside from the already discussed issue of the lack of C3 plants to eat, there is also other evidence against Gigantopithecus crossing the Bering Land Bridge. Namely that there is a complete lack of fossil evidence for this migration. There are numerous Pleistocene sediments across Siberia, Alaska, Canada, and the Pacific Northwest where Gigantopithecus remains should be found if this had occurred. There is also the fact that at the time of Gigantopithecus' extinction, c. 0.3-0.1 Ma, the Bering Strait was still an open seaway. The Bering Land Bridge wouldn't form until closer to 0.03 Ma, some 70,000 years after its extinction. The combination of no food source, no fossil evidence, and no Bering Land Bridge means that a Gigantopithecus migration to North America would have never occurred. Conclusion The "Bigfoot is Gigantopithecus" theory is based on obsolete ideas and inaccurate information, and can be thoroughly debunked. There are significant discrepancies between the morphology of Gigantopithecus and that reported of Bigfoot. Gigantopithecus would have been mostly quadrupedal, walking on its fists like an orangutan. It also would have had a five-toed foot with long digits and an opposable toe. Its skull would have been sloping with a prominent jaw. In contrast, Bigfoot is most commonly reported to be bipedal, the footprints usually have five shorter digits grouped together, and the face is said to be flat and human-like. There are also the numerous problems with Gigantopithecus crossing the Bering Land Bridge and establishing a population in North America. Gigantopithecus had a highly specialized diet and wouldn't have been able to adapt to the vastly different conditions of the Pacific Northwest. The only plants on the thousands of miles of steppe and tundra that would have been crossed during this migration would have been C4 grasses, as opposed to the C3 plants that Gigantopithecus consumed. The Bering Land Bridge didn't even exist until 70,000 years after Gigantopithecus went extinct. Above all this the complete lack of fossil evidence. If Bigfoot were to exist, it would far more likely be a unknown hominin than a surviving Gigantopithecus. References Bocherens, H., Schrenk, F., Chaimanee, Y., Kullmer, O., Mörike, D., Pushkina, D. & Jaeger, J-J. (2015). Flexibility of diet and habitat in Pleistocene South Asian mammals: Implications for the fate of the giant fossil ape Gigantopithecus. Quaternary International. doi:10.1016/j.quaint.2015.11.059 Ciochon, R.L. (1991). The ape that was - Asian fossils reveal humanity's giant cousin. Natural History 100, 54-62. Ciochon, R.L., Piperno, D.R. & Thompson, R.G. (1990). Opal phytoliths found on the teeth of extinct ape Gigantopithecus blacki: Implications for paleodietary studies. Proceedings of the National Academy of the Sciences of the United States of America 87(20), 8120-8124. Frayer, D.W. (1973). Gigantopithecus and its relationship to Australopithecus. American Journal of Physical Anthropology 39(3), 413-426. Hu, A., Meehl, G.A., Otto-Bliesner, B.L., Waelbroeck, C., Han, W., Loutre, M-F., Lambeck, K., Mitrovica, J.X. & Rosenbloom, N. (2010). Influence of Bering Strait flow and North Atlantic circulation on glacial sea-level changes. Nature Geoscience 3(2), 118-121. Koenigswald, G.H.R. von. (1952). Gigantopithecus blacki von Koenigswald, a giant fossil hominoid from the Pleistocene of southern China. Anthropological Papers of the American Museum of Natural History 43(4), 295-325. Miller, S.F., White, J.L. & Ciochon, R.L. (2008). Assessing mandibular shape variation within Gigantopithecus using a geometric morphometric approach. American Journal of Physical Anthropology 137, 201-212. Patnaik, R. (2008). Revisiting Haritalyangar, the Late Miocene ape locality of India. In J.G. Fleagle & C.C. Gilbert (Eds.), Elwyn Simons: A Search for Origins (pp. 197-210). New York, NY: Springer. Regal, B. (2009). Entering dubious realms: Grover Krantz, science, and Sasquatch. Annals of Science 66(1), 83-102. Relethford, J.H. (2017). 50 Great Myths of Human Evolution: Understanding Misconceptions About Our Origins. Chichester: Wiley-Blackwell. Shao, Q., Wang, Y., Voinchet, P., Zhu, M., Lin, M., Rink, W.J., Jin, C. & Bahain, J-J. (2015). U-series and ESR/U-series dating of the Stegodon/Ailuropoda fauna at Black Cave, Guangxi, southern China with implications for the timing of the extinction of Gigantopithecus blacki. Quaternary International. doi:10.1016/j.quaint.2015.12.016 Simons, E.L. & Chopra, S.R.K. (1969). Gigantopithecus (Pongidae, Hominoidea) a new species from North India. Postilla 138, 1-18. Zhang, Y., Jin, C., Kono, R.T., Harrison, T. & Wang, W. (2016). A fourth mandible and associated dental remains of Gigantopithecus blacki from the Early Pleistocene Yanliang Cave, Fusui, Guanxi, South China. Historical Biology 28(1-2), 95-104. 12/28/16 Edited December 28, 2016 by Carnoferox 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted December 28, 2016 #2 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Nice work Carnoferox. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted December 28, 2016 #3 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Although you haven't addressed whether they could have teleported to N America using the 13 crystal skulls as a power source. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted December 28, 2016 Author #4 Share Posted December 28, 2016 1 minute ago, oldrover said: Although you haven't addressed whether they could have teleported to N America using the 13 crystal skulls as a power source. Oh man! I totally forgot about that! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted December 28, 2016 #5 Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) Mammalian teeth are problematic in general in terms of phylogeny. I heard recently that omitting them from a cladistic study improves its accuracy. I didn't now before your piece that it was Krantz who was the source of the wide posterior of the jaw indicating it was a biped. It clearly isn't unusually wide. Anyway, I think the madible (C1) looks like there's been a bit of distortion going on there. And, as you say an ape that size isn't going to be a biped. It'd be so prone to deterioration in its joints. As an aside, I watched a bigfoot documentary last night in which they claimed sasquatch walks without locking its knees. How is an animal that size going to do that without ruining its knees in a matter of months? Edited December 28, 2016 by oldrover 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted December 28, 2016 Author #6 Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) Krantz only assumed that the mandibular condyles were set that far apart, as none of the five mandibles preserves the posterior. Just one of the problems with his skull reconstruction. The sagittal crest, robust jaw, and flat face were based on Paranthropus, I believe (as Krantz thought Gigantopithecus was a hominin). Edited December 28, 2016 by Carnoferox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWoo7 Posted December 28, 2016 #7 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Old rover, I mean ole Grover mentioned something funny, I can't remember it exactly, something like you could drag one in on a chain have it hop on the table and they'd still debate, or ..... seen some rather well sized ah MATTER, obviously that's what all the whoops and hollering are about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 28, 2016 #8 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Okay then ... how about Ginormousantopithecus ? ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted December 29, 2016 #9 Share Posted December 29, 2016 11 hours ago, oldrover said: Although you haven't addressed whether they could have teleported to N America using the 13 crystal skulls as a power source. Impossible, Nessie swallowed one of the skulls in the 15th century and hasn't "shifted" it yet. Terribly slow metabolism, or so I hear. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted December 29, 2016 #10 Share Posted December 29, 2016 11 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Impossible, Nessie swallowed one of the skulls in the 15th century and hasn't "shifted" it yet. Terribly slow metabolism, or so I hear. Well, she is very, very, very, very old. I'm sure pooping is one of the last things she worries about anymore. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted December 29, 2016 #11 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I often wonder if weird sightings are just of hermits living out in the wilderness who camouflage themselves for hunting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podo Posted December 29, 2016 #12 Share Posted December 29, 2016 This was a great read, thanks for doing it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 30, 2016 #13 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) Agree 100% that Bigfoot is not a Gigantopithicus. It could be a lot of other things... mutant human, mutant bear, mutant alien, mutant mutant, robot, demon... But not a Gigantopithicus. I don't think it is Giganto's known locations that limit it from moving into North America, as tapirs and cheetahs moved across the land bridge in between ice ages, but rather its suspected food source probably wouldn't have allowed it to travel so far so fast. Edited December 30, 2016 by DieChecker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted December 30, 2016 Author #14 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Agree 100% that Bigfoot is not a Gigantopithicus. It could be a lot of other things... mutant human, mutant bear, mutant alien, mutant mutant, robot, demon... But not a Gigantopithicus. I don't think it is Giganto's known locations that limit it from moving into North America, as tapirs and cheetahs moved across the land bridge in between ice ages, but rather its suspected food source probably wouldn't have allowed it to travel so far so fast. And also the fact that Gigantopithecus went extinct 70,000 years before the Bering Land Bridge formed. Edited December 30, 2016 by Carnoferox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 30, 2016 #15 Share Posted December 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, Carnoferox said: And also the fact that Gigantopithecus went extinct 70,000 years before the Bering Land Bridge formed. Doesn't matter. Animals were crossing land bridges for millions years. That was simply the latest land bridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beringia#Previous_connections Every time there was a glaciation cycle, there were multiple glacial maximums and minimums. Whenever there was a glacial maximum the land bridge would have been exposed. The above link suggests this happened even in the time of the dinosaurs. Over 400,000 years there have been at least four times when the land bridge would have been above water and allowed traffic. I've looked into this, because I wondered if Homo Erectus (H.E.) could have made it into North America. H.E. probably could have, but there is no evidence yet that he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted December 30, 2016 Author #16 Share Posted December 30, 2016 13 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Doesn't matter. Animals were crossing land bridges for millions years. That was simply the latest land bridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beringia#Previous_connections Every time there was a glaciation cycle, there were multiple glacial maximums and minimums. Whenever there was a glacial maximum the land bridge would have been exposed. The above link suggests this happened even in the time of the dinosaurs. Over 400,000 years there have been at least four times when the land bridge would have been above water and allowed traffic. I've looked into this, because I wondered if Homo Erectus (H.E.) could have made it into North America. H.E. probably could have, but there is no evidence yet that he did. The Bering Land Bridge did not form at every glacial maximum, rather only at the last one. Previous land bridges from North America to Asia, such as the one during the Late Cretaceous, were not connected to glacial cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted December 30, 2016 #17 Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, DieChecker said: Agree 100% that Bigfoot is not a Gigantopithicus. It could be a lot of other things... mutant human, mutant bear, mutant alien, mutant mutant, robot, demon... But not a mutant robot or mutant demon? Why exclude those? The church of bigfootery has no place for such bigotry. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 30, 2016 #18 Share Posted December 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Carnoferox said: The Bering Land Bridge did not form at every glacial maximum, rather only at the last one. Previous land bridges from North America to Asia, such as the one during the Late Cretaceous, were not connected to glacial cycles. Do you have a resource/link to show that to be true. I just showed you in a picture that the sea levels dropped to the same level four times in 400 years, and linked to a wiki that said the Bering Sea averages 40 to 50 meters deep. Go to the pic I posted and see how many times the sea level drops below -50m. By what process do you propose that the (surely) hundreds of land bridge events that occurred before the last glacial maximum happened? Land itself rose and fell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 30, 2016 #19 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, Thorvir said: But not a mutant robot or mutant demon? Why exclude those? The church of bigfootery has no place for such bigotry. Hee, hee, hee.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted December 30, 2016 Author #20 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Do you have a resource/link to show that to be true. I just showed you in a picture that the sea levels dropped to the same level four times in 400 years, and linked to a wiki that said the Bering Sea averages 40 to 50 meters deep. Go to the pic I posted and see how many times the sea level drops below -50m. By what process do you propose that the (surely) hundreds of land bridge events that occurred before the last glacial maximum happened? Land itself rose and fell? Read this paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232797838_Influence_of_Bering_Strait_flow_and_North_Atlantic_circulation_on_glacial_sea-level_changes They indicate that the land bridge did not completely form at every maximum, only at the Last Glacial Maximum c. 30,000 ka. Edited December 30, 2016 by Carnoferox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 31, 2016 #21 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I'll take a look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 31, 2016 #22 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) I don't see where what is in that article states what you're suggesting, that sea levels only dropped below -50m during the last Glacial maximum and never ever, ever, before that. The article seems to specifically focus only on the last 100,000 years. Anyway, that is beside the point. The point being that the land bridge did exist many, many times over the last millions of years. DNA/Genetic evidence, and the fossil record both show this 100% to be true. Here is another link to read. http://thegreatstory.org/charts/NA-all-animals.html Many animal species crossed back and forth over the last 55 million years. Since Gigantopithicus had been around for approximately 9 million years, there were multiple land bridges it could have crossed well before 70,000 years ago. The table by itself shows that there was mass migration 9 million, 5 million, 3 million, and 1 million years ago between Asia and North America. Edited December 31, 2016 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoferox Posted December 31, 2016 Author #23 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) I am still looking for a more reliable chronology of the Bering Land Bridge, but I am have a difficult time finding one. Gigantopithecus blacki itself only existed from around 1.9 million to 100,000 years ago, a much narrower window of time to cross the land bridge. The exact relationships of the earlier G. giganteus are still uncertain, and as a stated in my article some consider it in its own genus, Indopithecus. By the way, your chart indicates when that certain type of animal first evolved and went extinct, not when it migrated. Edited December 31, 2016 by Carnoferox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawken Posted December 31, 2016 #24 Share Posted December 31, 2016 On 12/29/2016 at 11:05 AM, ChaosRose said: I often wonder if weird sightings are just of hermits living out in the wilderness who camouflage themselves for hunting. You mean hermits like Mick Dodge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted December 31, 2016 #25 Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Hawkin said: You mean hermits like Mick Dodge? Ha! Yes! That guy! And everyone else like him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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