Are Hominids amongst us?

[Grandpa Greenman]

12 minutes ago, 029b10 said:

Does a thread every really stay on topic?  

Not really, but opening a thread with an alternative motive is baiting, just saying.  

[029b10]

1 hour ago, Grandpa Greenman said:

Not really, but opening a thread with an alternative motive is baiting, just saying.  

Not really since I was interested in hearing how hominoids and hominids which are used interchangeable so which one is the designation that is given for the ancestors from which man originated from since man did not directly evolve from primates.  It seems like the theological argument of three separate and distinct personages are actually one in the same.  

Edited January 2, 2017 by 029b10

[cormac mac airt]

4 minutes ago, 029b10 said:

Not really since I was interested in hearing how hominoids and hominids which are used interchangeable so which one is the designation that is given for the ancestors from which man originated from since man did not directly evolve from primates.  It seems like the theological argument of three separate and distinct personages are actually one in the same.  

Already given in my Post #16:

Quote

a Hominin is what we used to call a Hominid; a creature that paleoanthropologists have agreed is human or a human ancestor. Species in the Hominin bucket include all of the Homo species (Homo sapiens, H. ergaster, H. rudolfensis, includinging Neanderthals, Denisovans, and Flores), all of the Australopithecines (Australopithecus afarensis, A. africanus, A. boisei, etc.) and other ancient forms like Paranthropus and Ardipithecus.

BTW, hominoids and hominids ARE NOT used interchangeably particularly as the former includes orangutans, chimps and gorillas which are also NOT hominids.

cormac

[Davros of Skaro]

Good thing evolution continues. Then again those that follow bronze age doctrine, and it's lineage tend to reproduce like rabbits. 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

32 minutes ago, 029b10 said:

Did you teach yourself how to read and write without someone teaching you?  Believe what you want, but do you honestly think everyone who can read and write has to be taught by someone?  

How is this relevant ?

32 minutes ago, 029b10 said:

I would use the criteria cited by Thomas Paine who is quoted as saying "Every science has for its basis a system of principles as fixed and unalterable as those by which the universe is regulated and governed. Man cannot make principles; he can only discover them."    

Which is what scientists do. They try to discover how the universe works.

What you appear to do is to put your trust in an ancient book. The problem is that this ancient book doesn't have any verifiable scientic content. In fact the "science" in the book doesn't match with the natural world around us.

33 minutes ago, 029b10 said:

I believe genetics is a legitimate science, it holds the gametes of both a male and female are required to produced cell fusion necessary for reproduction to occur.  It also regulates which gametes are capable of producing cell fusion.  Extensive experiments have been conducted producing cell fusion between with a human gamete with a various species of primate gametes and cell fusion could not be achieved.  

Thats because we are of a different species than other primates.

Creationists have to remember something very important: We did not evolve from any of todays primates. We had a common ancestor million of years ago. 

Quote

Ironically, even Jesus said if you knew him you would know his father also, since he said that by their law the testimony of two men was true, he said I am one that bears witness of myself and the Father which sent him bears witnesses of him.   

I don't really care what Jesus supposedly said.

Quote

So ask yourself who evolution really benefits science or religion?  

Evolution isn't about benefitting anyone, it is an explanation of observable phenomenon, and it is backed up by evidence. So far it is the best explanation we got.

Quoting the bible just isn't evidence.  It would be so much easier if all the answers about life, the universe and everything was conveniently available in a book, but it just isn't the case.^*

 

 

^{*) With the exeption of "The Hithchikers Guide to the Galaxy" obviously. Everyone who have read that knows that the answer is forty two.} 

[029b10]

11 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Already given in my Post #16:

BTW, hominoids and hominids ARE NOT used interchangeably particularly as the former includes orangutans, chimps and gorillas which are also NOT hominids.

cormac

You are probably right what the definition is but looking at the different sources they appear to say different things.

 

Roughly speaking, then--but not exactly--a Hominin is what we used to call a Hominid; a creature that paleoanthropologists have agreed is human or a human ancestor. Species in the Hominin bucket include all of the Homo species (Homo sapiens, H. ergaster, H. rudolfensis, includinging Neanderthals, Denisovans, and Flores), all of the Australopithecines (Australopithecus afarensis, A. africanus, A. boisei, etc.) and other ancient forms like Paranthropus and Ardipithecus.

Hominoids

Molecular and genomic (DNA) studies have been able to bring most scholars to consensus about many of the previous debates about living species and our closest relatives, but strong controversies still swirl around the placement of Late Miocene species, called hominoids, including ancient forms like Dyropithecus, Ankarapithecus and Graecopithecus.

Hominoids are apes. All apes. Gorillas, chimps, humans, orangs, gibbons, etc. Hominids are great apes, and exclude gibbons (lesser apes). All hominids are hominoids, but not all hominoids are hominids.
The family Hominidae, known collectively as the great apes, includes orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans; alternatively, this family clade is also known as the hominids. There are seven extant species of great apes: two in the orangutans (genus Pongo), two in the gorillas (genus Gorilla), two in the chimpanzees (genus Pan), and a single extant species, Homo sapiens, of modern humans (genus Homo).
https://www.quora.com/How-do-hominids-and-hominoids-differ
 

Humans are hominoids. Hominoidea is a taxonomic group. Phylogenetic systematics holds that taxonomic groups should be monophyletic — meaning that they include all the descendants of one ancestor, and don’t leave any descendants out. Humans are closely related to chimpanzees and bonobos, more distantly to gorillas, then orangutans, then gibbons. All these living creatures are crown hominoids.

https://evolvingthoughts.net/2012/03/are-humans-apes-monkeys-primates-or-hominims/

[XenoFish]

Evolution benefits the species. They adapt (thus evolve) to their environment. If they can't adapt to changes they die out. Humans are unique in that we can adapt the environment to us, for the most part. Place humans on a planet with higher or lesser gravity and after several generations their bodies would be able to handle the environment. 

[Habitat]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Humans are unique in that we can adapt the environment to us, for the most part.

That is quite an astute observation.

 

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Place humans on a planet with higher or lesser gravity and after several generations their bodies would be able to handle the environment. 

Very doubtful, imo. 

[cormac mac airt]

52 minutes ago, 029b10 said:

You are probably right what the definition is but looking at the different sources they appear to say different things.

Roughly speaking, then--but not exactly--a Hominin is what we used to call a Hominid; a creature that paleoanthropologists have agreed is human or a human ancestor. Species in the Hominin bucket include all of the Homo species (Homo sapiens, H. ergaster, H. rudolfensis, includinging Neanderthals, Denisovans, and Flores), all of the Australopithecines (Australopithecus afarensis, A. africanus, A. boisei, etc.) and other ancient forms like Paranthropus and Ardipithecus.

Hominoids

Molecular and genomic (DNA) studies have been able to bring most scholars to consensus about many of the previous debates about living species and our closest relatives, but strong controversies still swirl around the placement of Late Miocene species, called hominoids, including ancient forms like Dyropithecus, Ankarapithecus and Graecopithecus.

Hominoids are apes. All apes. Gorillas, chimps, humans, orangs, gibbons, etc. Hominids are great apes, and exclude gibbons (lesser apes). All hominids are hominoids, but not all hominoids are hominids.
The family Hominidae, known collectively as the great apes, includes orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans; alternatively, this family clade is also known as the hominids. There are seven extant species of great apes: two in the orangutans (genus Pongo), two in the gorillas (genus Gorilla), two in the chimpanzees (genus Pan), and a single extant species, Homo sapiens, of modern humans (genus Homo).
https://www.quora.com/How-do-hominids-and-hominoids-differ
 

Humans are hominoids. Hominoidea is a taxonomic group. Phylogenetic systematics holds that taxonomic groups should be monophyletic — meaning that they include all the descendants of one ancestor, and don’t leave any descendants out. Humans are closely related to chimpanzees and bonobos, more distantly to gorillas, then orangutans, then gibbons. All these living creatures are crown hominoids.

https://evolvingthoughts.net/2012/03/are-humans-apes-monkeys-primates-or-hominims/

And yet none of the above validates your previous claim in the OP that "...hominoids are believed to be extinct" which has been shown to be wrong. Which again means that any speculation based on that incorrect assumption is therefore also wrong.

Because you apparently are having a problem with what comprises the various classifications doesn't mean that you can make it up as you go along.

cormac

[freetoroam]

21 hours ago, 029b10 said:

 So if the ability to speak comes from the vocal anatomy then how is a person hearing what is written if communication using the spoken word is only an audible sound?

Sorry, you have lost me on the hearing what is written...where does this come from?

[back to earth]

2 hours ago, 029b10 said:

Does a thread every really stay on topic?  

Not when the person that made the thread is unclear what the topic is . 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

11 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Sorry, you have lost me on the hearing what is written...where does this come from?

Audiobooks ? 

Edit: I am actually listening to an audiobook while writing this. "Ringworld" by Larry Niven.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Noteverythingisaconspiracy

[back to earth]

 

 

16 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

Sorry, you have lost me on the hearing what is written...where does this come from?

reading out loud  ?  

[back to earth]

7 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Audiobooks ? 

Ahhhh  Grandpa !  You cant trick me .....  I can see what you wanted you me to hear then !         

[Habitat]

1 hour ago, back to earth said:

  I can see what you wanted you me to hear then !         

You what ?

[back to earth]

 

 

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, Habitat said:

You what ?

I heard that ! 

[back to earth]

Do you hear things when you read ? 

[Habitat]

2 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Do you hear things when you read ? 

Nussink.

[029b10]

Seems pretty obvious that human beings and primates are different species as evident by the inability of cell fusion to occur.   So it doesn't matter if man is said to evolved from existing primates or an extinct primates, or was created but like  Thomas Paine is quoted as saying, “But it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe . It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society.”(Age of Reason)  

 

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by 029b10

[back to earth]

I'd suggest getting more monkeys on the keyboards and send in the next attempt . 

[029b10]

13 minutes ago, back to earth said:

I'd suggest getting more monkeys on the keyboards and send in the next attempt . 

LOL, the monkees usually only like to  sing....

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by 029b10

[Rlyeh]

8 hours ago, 029b10 said:

Ironically, even Jesus said if you knew him you would know his father also, since he said that by their law the testimony of two men was true, he said I am one that bears witness of myself and the Father which sent him bears witnesses of him.  

An author said Jesus said it.

If I bear witness to my imaginary friend and my imaginary friend bears witness of me, then it must be true right? 

8 hours ago, 029b10 said:

So ask yourself who evolution really benefits science or religion?  

Science. That has nothing to do with what you just wrote.

[cormac mac airt]

2 hours ago, 029b10 said:

Seems pretty obvious that human beings and primates are different species as evident by the inability of cell fusion to occur.   So it doesn't matter if man is said to evolved from existing primates or an extinct primates, or was created but like  Thomas Paine is quoted as saying, “But it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe . It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society.”(Age of Reason) 

Try again, eventually you 'might' get something right, but as it stands right now you can't even get the fact that humans ARE primates correct apparently. Nor do you understand the difference between an Order and a Species, it seems.

Scientific classification
Kingdom:	Animalia
Phylum:	Chordata
Clade:	Synapsida
Class:	Mammalia
Order:	Primates
Suborder:	Haplorhini
Family:	Hominidae
Tribe:	Hominini
Genus:	Homo
Species:	H. sapiens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

cormac

Edited January 3, 2017 by cormac mac airt

[ShadowSot]

3 hours ago, 029b10 said:

Seems pretty obvious that human beings and primates are different species as evident by the inability of cell fusion to occur.   So it doesn't matter if man is said to evolved from existing primates or an extinct primates, or was created but like  Thomas Paine is quoted as saying, “But it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe . It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society.”(Age of Reason)  

 

 

 You should really try to understand what a species is before making that claim. 

 There are many different creatures which despite being genetically similar, are unable to interbreed. 

 We have a good example in modern ring species. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species

Worth reading.