Trump to pull U.S. from Middle East

[Unusual Tournament]

On 7 January 2017 at 11:33 PM, Lilly said:

Trump has surrounded himself with some very smart military men and some top notch business men...Trump is going to listen to them and make his own decisions. The liberal press simply  doesn't have a clue IMO.

For everyones sake let just hope that Trump's very smart men are also able to be moderate.

[Space Commander Travis]

10 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Bolded: Say what you will about Obama the truth is the man has not introduced ANY scandal into the oval office. He has dignified the office of president of the USA. Something Im afraid that Hillary wouldn't have done and Trump just won't be able too. 

Style always has it over substance in today's world of journalism, that's for sure,. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Style always has it over substance in today's world of journalism, that's for sure,. 

Not sure what exactly it is your trying to say. Im talking about president Obama not journalists. Obama is leaving the office of POTUS scandal free. When was the last time that happened? 

[Space Commander Travis]

He may have brought dignity to the office and been adored by the press, but what exactly has he left in tangible form? I suppose managing to avoid being talked into getting involved in Syria (in a direct, hands-on way) was something, I suppose, and the Iran deal which Trump seems determined to rescind, but otherwise he's had the press eating out of his hand, so how much analysis of his legacy are we going to see? It can be easy to be dignified if no one's seriously challenging you and accusing you of everything under the sun. 

[bee]

9 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Not sure what exactly it is your trying to say. Im talking about president Obama not journalists. Obama is leaving the office of POTUS scandal free. When was the last time that happened? 

.

I think covertly arming and training terrorist type groups in Syria while re branding them ''''moderate rebels'''' to put
the tax paying public off the scent --- thereby facilitating the spread of the Islamic State and the death and displacing
of millions of Syrian civilians --- was a scandal -- using Islamist groups as a proxy army because ''''Assad must go''''
was a scandal -

being instrumental in the destruction of Libya and allowing the Islamic State and Al Qaeda affiliated groups to take over
there was a scandal - and what happened in Benghazi raised more than a few eyebrows -

But he did manage to keep the contents of his trousers under control if that's the kind of scandal you mean - 

so well done him - 

.

  

[Unusual Tournament]

4 minutes ago, bee said:

.

I think covertly arming and training terrorist type groups in Syria while re branding them ''''moderate rebels'''' to put
the tax paying public off the scent --- thereby facilitating the spread of the Islamic State and the death and displacing
of millions of Syrian civilians --- was a scandal -- using Islamist groups as a proxy army because ''''Assad must go''''
was a scandal -

being instrumental in the destruction of Libya and allowing the Islamic State and Al Qaeda affiliated groups to take over
there was a scandal - and what happened in Benghazi raised more than a few eyebrows -

But he did manage to keep the contents of his trousers under control if that's the kind of scandal you mean - 

so well done him - 

.

  

Bolded: Haha... and the fact that in addition to not enjoying the pleasurable company of interns while smoking cigars he also has never owned shares in Halliburton.

As far as Syria there is no proof. Its quite clear that he was betrayed by his own people and allies and that he pulled back. So no cigar for you...lol

Edited January 13, 2017 by Captain Risky

[Space Commander Travis]

10 minutes ago, bee said:

.

I think covertly arming and training terrorist type groups in Syria while re branding them ''''moderate rebels'''' to put
the tax paying public off the scent --- thereby facilitating the spread of the Islamic State and the death and displacing
of millions of Syrian civilians --- was a scandal -- using Islamist groups as a proxy army because ''''Assad must go''''
was a scandal -

being instrumental in the destruction of Libya and allowing the Islamic State and Al Qaeda affiliated groups to take over
there was a scandal - and what happened in Benghazi raised more than a few eyebrows -

But he did manage to keep the contents of his trousers under control if that's the kind of scandal you mean - 

so well done him - 

.

  

Finger on it. 

[Space Commander Travis]

6 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 

As far as Syria there is no proof. Its quite clear that he was betrayed by his own people and allies and that he pulled back. So no cigar for you...lol

Now the stringent standards of demanding proof are being applied? Whereas for example, anything at all about the perfidious Russkies must be true and doesn't need any further confirmation because you heard it on CNN. And even if the Big O was just a patsy, it was certainly the neocons with which his administration was full, and which would have been the driving force behind a Clinton administration. That would have been preferable to a dangerously irresponsible Trump administration buddying up to Big Bad Vlad?

[Unusual Tournament]

6 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Now the stringent standards of demanding proof are being applied? Whereas for example, anything at all about the perfidious Russkies must be true and doesn't need any further confirmation because you heard it on CNN. And even if the Big O was just a patsy, it was certainly the neocons with which his administration was full, and which would have been the driving force behind a Clinton administration. That would have been preferable to a dangerously irresponsible Trump administration buddying up to Big Bad Vlad?

Instead you'd rather just tap the rumour mill to define the measure of Obama's presidency. If Obama had willing done all that bee say's then why is Assad still in power? Not defending Obama just pointing out that he is leaving the office of POTUS scandal free. He surrounded himself with neo cons and made mistakes unwittingly and then rectified them. Trump on the other hand has sold his soul to the military willingly and i bet you dollars for donuts that he won't be rectifying any of their moves. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Captain Risky

[bee]

16 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

 

As far as Syria there is no proof. Its quite clear that he was betrayed by his own people and allies and that he pulled back. 

  .

your '''like'''' did not include this bit, by the way - 

there's been a lot of interest in what Kerry said privately at a UN meeting - not proof as such but indication..?

but really anyone paying attention knows that the US / UK etc have been supporting the Islamist type groups
to get rid of Assad while at the same time pretending to go after the Islamic State ( in a half hearted way )

 

video description --

Published on Jan 6, 2017

Sub for more: http://nnn.is/the_new_media | The Conservative Tribune reports, Back in September 2016, on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly meeting, there was a much smaller meeting that took quietly place between Secretary of State John Kerry and a collection of Syrian civilians and other foreign diplomats to discuss the American involvement, or more accurately the lack thereof in the view of the Syrians, in the brutal Syrian civil war.

 

 

 

[Unusual Tournament]

3 minutes ago, bee said:

  .

your '''like'''' did not include this bit, by the way - 

there's been a lot of interest in what Kerry said privately at a UN meeting - not proof as such but indication..?

but really anyone paying attention knows that the US / UK etc have been supporting the Islamist type groups
to get rid of Assad while at the same time pretending to go after the Islamic State ( in a half hearted way )

 

video description --

Published on Jan 6, 2017

Sub for more: http://nnn.is/the_new_media | The Conservative Tribune reports, Back in September 2016, on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly meeting, there was a much smaller meeting that took quietly place between Secretary of State John Kerry and a collection of Syrian civilians and other foreign diplomats to discuss the American involvement, or more accurately the lack thereof in the view of the Syrians, in the brutal Syrian civil war.

 

 

 

More proof that Obama knowingly jumped in bed with Islamic State... cause a pro republican rag said so? LOL... where is the audio? Has it been authenticated? In what context was what he said (assuming that its even him)? C'mon bee you're better than that.

[Unusual Tournament]

57 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

He may have brought dignity to the office and been adored by the press, but what exactly has he left in tangible form? I suppose managing to avoid being talked into getting involved in Syria (in a direct, hands-on way) was something, I suppose, and the Iran deal which Trump seems determined to rescind, but otherwise he's had the press eating out of his hand, so how much analysis of his legacy are we going to see? It can be easy to be dignified if no one's seriously challenging you and accusing you of everything under the sun. 

I agree that the media has been friendly towards Obama and why wouldn't they? He has conducted himself in a dignified manner. He never was a political animal. He was a great orator and stable. Never sought confrontation and responded always in a measured way. Clinton and Trump are tramps compared to Obama. I don't think we'll see the likes of Obama for a long time. Maybe its because he was all those things that his presidency will be viewed as boring and without memorable achievements worthy of the fox news corporation.

[bee]

1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

More proof that Obama knowingly jumped in bed with Islamic State... cause a pro republican rag said so? LOL... where is the audio? Has it been authenticated? In what context was what he said (assuming that its even him)? C'mon bee you're better than that.

.

I'm going out now so I will have to come back to this later --- in the mean time you could search it..

if you can be bothered

Kerry - leaked audio - UN - Obama - Islamic State -

something along those lines -- see how helpful I am.....  

.

 

[Unusual Tournament]

Just now, bee said:

.

I'm going out now so I will have to come back to this later --- in the mean time you could search it..

if you can be bothered

Kerry - leaked audio - UN - Obama - Islamic State -

something along those lines -- see how helpful I am.....  

.

 

Translation: There is no verification for the claims of the fox aligned news outlet. Believe what you want. 

[bee]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Translation: There is no verification for the claims of the fox aligned news outlet. Believe what you want. 

.

errrr no translation needed - my words were perfectly straight forward -

 

from the video description --

Published on Jan 5, 2017

'Daesh was threatening to take Damascus. That's why Russia came in. We saw it coming too, but thought we could use it to force Assad to negotiate...' That is the essence of Kerry's comments here.

Kerry's comments came at a meeting that took place at the Dutch Mission to the United Nations on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly last September (2016).

The audio was originally leaked to the New York Times in late September. The excerpts in the above video are from the full version of the recording posted here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4phB...

See also: https://www.sott.net/article/338536-J...

 

 

[preacherman76]

4 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Bolded: Say what you will about Obama the truth is the man has not introduced ANY scandal into the oval office. He has dignified the office of president of the USA. Something Im afraid that Hillary wouldn't have done and Trump just won't be able too. 

The man gave drug cartels thousands of assault weapons, that later killed a boarder security agent. Gave himself the power to indefinitely detain and or kill anyone in the world including American citizens with no due process. He has continued and started several undeclared and unconstitutional wars. He has changed several parts of 0bama care, long after it past, with no congressional over site. He has defied the supreme court on immigration. He has spent more money then all presidents combined. Just cause the media you listen to didn't report any of this, doesn't mean it wasn't so. He was literally the worst president in the history of this country.

[Lilly]

President Obama didn't have any of the 'sex scandal' issues we often see. However, he most certainly has had scandals aplenty.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-obama-era-had-scandals-aplenty/article/2006197

His tenure saw an astounding number of scandals: Benghazi, Fast and Furious gunrunning, Solyndra and green energy subsidies for campaign donors, cash for Iranian hostages, IRS targeting of conservative groups, spying on journalists, Hillary Clinton's private email server, the Veterans Administration disaster, trading deserter Bowe Bergdahl for five Taliban leaders held in Guantánamo, droning American citizens without due process, and firing inspector general Gerald Walpin for investigating an Obama crony who was abusing federal programs. And that list isn't exhaustive.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Lilly
added quote

[simplybill]

Mr. Trump can't undo in one day the tangled mess that the Middle East has become. I'm posting this link to give one example of how US intervention in the Middle East has fundamentally changed the entire region, and now is affecting the West. Some will argue that The Jerusalem Post is biased, but these opinions are from people that actually live in the Middle East and see the results of misguided policy in real life, without the spin applied to those policies by Western media and politicians. Likewise, reports from members of the Orthodox Church living in Syria paint a different picture of Mr. Assad and US military intervention in their country than what we read about in Western media.

I don't blame President Obama's policies for everything that is happening now. Obviously, the problems started in the early 1900s. However, every speech, and even off-the-cuff remarks, amplify the turmoil far beyond normal discourse. 

From the opinion piece:

"The only significant exchange in their conversation came when Dayan asked Obama about the speech he gave on June 4, 2009, in Cairo. Does he still stand by all the things he said in that speech? Would he give that speech again today, given all that has since happened in the region, she asked."

"After Obama’s speech in Cairo, no one had any cause for surprise at the reports this week that he approved the transfer of 116 tons of uranium to Iran. Likewise, no one should have been surprised by his nuclear deal or by his willingness to see Iran take over Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Yemen. No one should be surprised by his cash payoffs to the regime or his passivity in the face of repeated Iranian acts of aggression against US naval vessels in the Strait of Hormuz."

http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/Column-One-Obamas-transparent-presidency-478313#article=6017Q0QzOTMzRUY1N0EyODFDRDlGMTgwQkEwNzJGRDlFRTA=

Edited January 13, 2017 by simplybill

[Space Commander Travis]

7 minutes ago, simplybill said:

repeated Iranian acts of aggression against US naval vessels in the Strait of Hormuz.

Yes, those Mad Mullahs with their three old Vosper frigates from the 1970s have made it a no go area for the mightiest military navy in the world!!

 

Yes, I think the JerPo could probably be accused of a little bias.

[simplybill]

9 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Yes, those Mad Mullahs with their three old Vosper frigates from the 1970s have made it a no go area for the mightiest military navy in the world!!

 

Yes, I think the JerPo could probably be accused of a little bias.

It's a recruiting tactic. They taunt us to show the rest of the Middle East that Iran is fearless against "the aggressors". 

[simplybill]

1 hour ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

 

Yes, I think the JerPo could probably be accused of a little bias.

I try to view the situation through non-Western eyes. Those of us living in the West are only exposed to the Western interpretation of Middle East events. By considering the opinions (and biases) of the people who actually live and work in Syria, Israel, etc. I can be less biased myself. That's why in my earlier post I bolded the word one in my second sentence.

[+and-then]

9 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

He may have brought dignity to the office and been adored by the press, but what exactly has he left in tangible form? I suppose managing to avoid being talked into getting involved in Syria (in a direct, hands-on way) was something, I suppose, and the Iran deal which Trump seems determined to rescind, but otherwise he's had the press eating out of his hand, so how much analysis of his legacy are we going to see? It can be easy to be dignified if no one's seriously challenging you and accusing you of everything under the sun. 

 

And, apparently, as long as one does not steal the plate or receive a BJ while in the office, it's okay to set the WORLD on fire.  This man has intentionally created, and IS creating, a potential firestorm in the M.E.  He has allowed his subordinates to roil Ukraine and then blame Moscow for the tensions, and that doesn't even count the domestic disharmony he has created.  But hey, that Oval office is scandal free!  The mind boggles at such foolishness.

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Yes, those Mad Mullahs with their three old Vosper frigates from the 1970s have made it a no go area for the mightiest military navy in the world!!

 

Yes, I think the JerPo could probably be accused of a little bias.

 

True enough and no doubt if hostilities arose their navy, "airforce" and ground installations would be history in a matter of 3 days or so.  But they are more than capable of bringing traffic to a stop for awhile.  Asymmetric warfare is potent when employed well.

The Cole proved that allowing even apparently non-combatant boats too close is a deadly risk.  Hopefully, the new ROIs will involve a heightened defense posture so that the silliness will be stopped.  The mullahs have gained a tremendous amount of success with no costs.  They don't want war.

[Dark_Grey]

Armchair Generals of UM: how do we prevent another power vacuum scenario? Al Queda and ISIS are not good legacies to leave behind. Pulling the troops out is important, but HOW they are removed is just as important...

[+Liquid Gardens]

4 hours ago, Lilly said:

President Obama didn't have any of the 'sex scandal' issues we often see. However, he most certainly has had scandals aplenty.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-obama-era-had-scandals-aplenty/article/2006197

Scandals aren't merely measured by their number but by severity.  I'll take all of the mentioned Obama scandals combined over one catastrophic Iraq War instigated by his criminal predecessors, that's a pretty easy bar to clear.  What president has had less scandals than Obama?

And how does 'Hillary's email server' merit a mention, what did Obama have to do with that?  Should we also include the Ryan Lochte incident at the Olympics in his 'scandals aplenty'?