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stevnpa

New and a sceptic but...

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ShadowSot
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I don't make the rules. It appears very clear to me that communication from the beyond proceeds under strict rules, beside the secrecy part. That ( secrecy) must be universal, otherwise we would have the celebrated case evidences. 

Or, it's simply what we find so often when we I'm actually investigate. Mistakes, mental and physical, maybe a bit of motivated reasoning. 

 Othe raise, my dragon is as likely as your claims. 

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Habitat

And a decade or two ago, I'd have regarded such talk as utter BS. It is quite a thing to have your view of the world turned about, though I think I was already much less dogmatic about such things, when the veil was drawn.

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ShadowSot

Sure. 

I'm not a skeptic because I don't want to believe in the paranormal. 

If anything, my skepticism comes from attempting to prove it, and having to force my mind open to certain possibilities I hadn't thought of before. 

 But if you are saying that it favors people who don't try to examine, consider, seek explanation, and are willing to just take it on faith.

 Well, that certainly explains all the issues we mentioned earlier. 

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

Or, it's simply what we find so often when we I'm actually investigate. Mistakes, mental and physical, maybe a bit of motivated reasoning. 

 Othe raise, my dragon is as likely as your claims. 

To you, my story is unlikely as dragons, I understand that. To me it is a settled matter. And are dragons more likely in your mind, than death not being necessarily the end ? If so, you are even less convinced. All is well, it is the way of the "beyond", not to shock and disturb the ardent materialist with evidence. It stands on a softening of that attitude, of "knowing" that it cannot be, to a point of admitted "not knowing", for any thing to change.

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Habitat
3 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

 

 But if you are saying that it favors people who don't try to examine, consider, seek explanation, and are willing to just take it on faith.

 

It favours people who know they don't know, 100 %. 

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Emma_Acid
15 minutes ago, Habitat said:

I don't make the rules.

But yet you still seem to know what the rules are - but yet science still can't study it. This is called "special pleading".

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Habitat
Just now, Emma_Acid said:

But yet you still seem to know what the rules are - but yet science still can't study it. This is called "special pleading".

Call it anything you like, I don't make the rules. For example, you may receive a demonstration of some kind, that for some reason, you doubt. It might seem unlikely it was a natural event, but you have doubts. It very likely will occur a second time, frequently shortly after. You will not get a third.

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ShadowSot
Just now, Habitat said:

To you, my story is unlikely as dragons, I understand that. To me it is a settled matter. And are dragons more likely in your mind, than death not being necessarily the end ? If so, you are even less convinced. All is well, it is the way of the "beyond", not to shock and disturb the ardent materialist with evidence. It stands on a softening of that attitude, of "knowing" that it cannot be, to a point of admitted "not knowing", for any thing to change.

I really, really like how you keep defaulting to the perspective that I'm some ok ne who would be shocked by the existence of the afterlife or of the beyond. 

 It seems it doesn't matter how many times I point out I was a believer, that I still pursue reading on paranormal investigations, and while I treat such topics with skepticism I genuinely want them to be true. 

 But that just seems to be difficult for you to grasp. 

 

1 minute ago, Habitat said:

It favours people who know they don't know, 100 %. 

Well, good thing I have couched every post of mine with caveats, possibilities, hopes, and where there might be flaws, right? 

 I'd have to go back and count how many times I've said "but this doesn't mean it's impossible" at this point in one form or another, but I'm pretty sure if you didn't read it the first time, it won't matter much. 

 I'm honestly sitting here scratching my head over this. 

 After stating I used to be a believer, that investigation lead me to skepticism, after stating I would desperately love to speak to a ghost, or to have proof of an afterlife, and leaving open the possibility there is something that's been missed, while giving the reasons I think it's un likely, I really don't see how you could get to me being someone either claiming to know anything 100% or would be stunned to find evidence of the paranormal. 

 

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ShadowSot
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Call it anything you like, I don't make the rules. For example, you may receive a demonstration of some kind, that for some reason, you doubt. It might seem unlikely it was a natural event, but you have doubts. It very likely will occur a second time, frequently shortly after. You will not get a third.

Well that's even vaguer than any of Nostradamus' quatrains. 

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Emma_Acid
5 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Call it anything you like, I don't make the rules. For example, you may receive a demonstration of some kind, that for some reason, you doubt. It might seem unlikely it was a natural event, but you have doubts. It very likely will occur a second time, frequently shortly after. You will not get a third.

I have no idea what this post means.

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ShadowSot
3 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

I have no idea what this post means.

Easy. Vagueness is coming.

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Habitat
18 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

Sure. 

I'm not a skeptic because I don't want to believe in the paranormal. 

If anything, my skepticism comes from attempting to prove it, and having to force my mind open to certain possibilities I hadn't thought of before. 

 But if you are saying that it favors people who don't try to examine, consider, seek explanation, and are willing to just take it on faith.

 Well, that certainly explains all the issues we mentioned earlier. 

Do you mean prove it in the scientific sense, or just to your own satisfaction ? There would be a great difference between the two, the former would imply great conceit, as no-one has ever done that, at least in recorded history.

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Habitat
1 minute ago, ShadowSot said:

It us hardly vague, what I was saying was that demonstrations from the beyond don't recur till you "get" it, twice is the limit from what I have witnessed.

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XenoFish
42 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

By the same token there's a dragon in my garage that only I can see and feeds on negative energy. 

I keep my pet bigfoot in the backyard. I would show him to you but he's shy. You might not see him.

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Habitat
Just now, XenoFish said:

I keep my pet bigfoot in the backyard. I would show him to you but he's shy. You might not see him.

Bigfoot I give ) 0.0% chance of being an extant animal. Beyond that is just speculation.

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ShadowSot
16 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Do you mean prove it in the scientific sense, or just to your own satisfaction ? There would be a great difference between the two, the former would imply great conceit, as no-one has ever done that, at least in recorded history.

I have never, either now as a skeptics or when I was a believer, been able to prove the paranormal to myself. 

 Weird stuff, sure. But weird doesn't equal paranormal. 

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ShadowSot
15 minutes ago, Habitat said:

It us hardly vague, what I was saying was that demonstrations from the beyond don't recur till you "get" it, twice is the limit from what I have witnessed.

You said "you may receive a demonstration of some kind, that for some reason, you doubt."

I would really like to see something more vague attempted.

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Habitat
1 minute ago, ShadowSot said:

I have never, either now as a skeptics or when I was a believer, been able to prove the paranormal to myself. 

 Weird stuff, sure. But weird doesn't equal paranormal. 

I don't doubt it. I don't credit myself for knowing what I now know, only a person that pre-deceased me. Otherwise I would be none the wiser, though certainly I would not be dismissive. I thought a God likely, an afterlife rather less so. I really don't know that anything can be said meaningfully about the "real" God, as opposed to the pale imitations we have in retail religion.

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Habitat
5 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

You said "you may receive a demonstration of some kind, that for some reason, you doubt."

I would really like to see something more vague attempted.

Hardly, you might, for example, today think you hear someone knocking at the door, but aren't sure till you then hear it again, simples.

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Emma_Acid
2 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Hardly, you might, for example, today think you hear someone knocking at the door, but aren't sure till you then hear it again, simples.

But hearing or seeing something twice isn't proof that it exists.

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ShadowSot

And again, you keep reading into my posts. I have made every attempt not be dismissive. You are certain in your experience. I am certain you have had an experience. 

 I am not certain as to what that experience was, of course I didn't experience. 

 It's interesting that claims about UFOs and Bigfoot are reaching the same point of claim. Bigfoot and UFOs are being more commonly now extradimensional things that behave in such a manner. 

 The explanations for flat earth are approaching the same level too.

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ShadowSot
3 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Hardly, you might, for example, today think you hear someone knocking at the door, but aren't sure till you then hear it again, simples.

Except that isn't what you said. You said there'd be something maybe that might do a thing you don't know what it could be. 

 Which is a bit of a problem, as you are going from I don't know, therefore the paranormal. 

 And something like your example happens for me every night. As I came to find out I have a porch light and large beetles.

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Habitat
2 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

But hearing or seeing something twice isn't proof that it exists.

Look, I'm not a woo warrior, in retrospect I was hard to convince, after a while it woold be just plain dumb not to be convinced.

1 minute ago, ShadowSot said:

Except that isn't what you said. You said there'd be something maybe that might do a thing you don't know what it could be. 

 

No idea what that means. I used the door knock as an everyday example, I'm sure everyone has thought/said at some time, "is that someone I heard knocking at the front door" ?. You hear it again and proceed to the door, certain that someone is in fact at the door.

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Habitat
8 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

 

 It's interesting that claims about UFOs and Bigfoot are reaching the same point of claim. Bigfoot and UFOs are being more commonly now extradimensional things that behave in such a manner. 

 

I have had what many would say was a close-up UFO experience, in the company of another, who was quite insistent it had to be an "alien craft". 40 years later I cannot say what I witnessed that day, I don't even know if there would be an explanation that I, or anyone else, could assimilate. Extradimensional, time travelling, I have not the slightest. I don't believe it was a product of the technology of the day, beyond that, I cannot say. I'm just glad it did us no harm, that I'm aware of.

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ShadowSot
10 minutes ago, Habitat said:

 

No idea what that means. I used the door knock as an everyday example, I'm sure everyone has thought/said at some time, "is that someone I heard knocking at the front door" ?. You hear it again and proceed to the door, certain that someone is in fact at the door.

What you said originally was nothing definite. It amounted to something might happen maybe, that is easy to think is something else. 

 And I also gave an example of why I wouldn't even consider that example, chiefly bugs striking my door from being attracted to the light often sounds like there's someone at the door. Convinces the dog too, at all hours. 

 During the day, have similar issues with tree branches and stuff falling from the tree. 

 Saying something might happen in some way is meaningless. It's simply too vague to be of use. Especially when it is supposed to be in the form of something easily dismissed.

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