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May's brexit speech


spartan max2
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5 hours ago, bee said:

.

There's a poster called Captain Risky
Looses sleep over Britain's exit-ski
Obsessed he tosses and turns
European economic unity he yearns
Perhaps he should lay off the whiskey

:whistle:

.

Just another foreigner sticking his neb into Brit affairs, and knowing more than us Brits do on how to conduct them

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20 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

You're back peddling but that's okay. My understanding is the EU signs trade deals collectively and does so by using the combined size of it's members markets to get a better deal. The UK will only be signing the same type of deals. So the perception that trade "boom" time bonanza ahead is not exactly accurate. I'm not sure who exactly the UK will be signing these deals with? America is in the process of Trumpism and American job's and investment at home, which is code for limiting imports and pushing American exports. China is notorious for signing export driven deals. With British manufacturing decimated by Thatcherism and the British banking system in decline now that the UK is leaving the EU, stevewinn... you'll just be opening your markets to other imports and limiting exports. Trade and investment with Europe will significantly slow down regardless of the outcome of brexit.

Of course we won't know for sure what impact brexit will have for the UK until Britain leaves and a clear picture emerges from the isolationist policies of Trump and what other country's will follow his leed. And i strongly suspect that China and India will also take on some of his policies as a knee jerk reaction. Maybe brexit will be the best thing to happen to the UK. No-one know's but with limiting world trade opportunities from here on in i can't see how this uncertainty can equate to faster growth if any for the UK.  

As a after thought... Australia is still pushing the TPP and NOW it want's China in the mix. I find that funny since the TPP was mean't to limit China's economic influence in the region. Australia and others desperately want's an EU type trading group. So did America before Trump. Global trade is fast being regionalised and with the UK leaving its region and trying to insert itself into other EU type trade bloc's one has to wonder if now is the right time to brexit, if at all.   

Where have i back peddled?

your understanding or lack thereof is what makes most of what you write incorrect.

You follow events but haven't got a clue who the United Kingdom is in talks with over trade deals post Brexit.

You think the world is going into isolationism due to President Trump and then base the rest of your post on that assumption.

You state the UK banking is in decline, No just checked still number one in the world.

British industry and Thatcher, did you learn that from the link in a post a few pages back? Lets see what you actually know, what role did labour play, including the Unions  and not omitting the effects of the World War II. take it away captain risky the floor is yours..............

 

 

 

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Isolationism is exactly what is going on. You wanna stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not, then that's your business and i can't tell you what to think. Look i don't wanna get into a long drawn out debate about it, mate. Suffice to say that the omens for brexit are not good. You lost that court case, requiring parliamentary approval for any brexit deal. It's a blow for hard brexit and if you can't try your luck with tax haven, taxing the workers up the wazoo hard brexit, then a soft brexit is pointless. As much as you try, your love of Britain cannot just conjure up brexit success, stevewinn.  

Edited by Captain Risky
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44 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Isolationism is exactly what is going on.   

Brexit is complex and multi-faceted.  Yet you keep making points focusing on one particular point.  You need to understand that the Brexit vote was not just about border control, not just about trade.

for the point in hand.  This is not about isolationism.  We are not stopping immigration, but stepping away from the open border policies of Brussels, enforced on EU members.  This policy has been heavily critisised, and has already seen fatal consequences.  Britain has and always will welcome immigrants into the country.

52 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

As much as you try, your love of Britain cannot just conjure up brexit success.  

Luckily your hate of Britain cannot conjure up its failure.

the result of the court case will further prolongue things, but Brexit will continue and due process will be respected.  I think it's high time all you remoaners started getting with the program.  Let's start working together eh?  Well those of us that we're actually eligible to vote.

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1 hour ago, Grey Area said:

the result of the court case will further prolongue things, but Brexit will continue and due process will be respected.  I think it's high time all you remoaners started getting with the program.  Let's start working together eh?  Well those of us that we're actually eligible to vote.

We seem to be hearing this line a lot from leave supporters lately. Why should people who vehemently oppose everything the leave campaign stood for be expected to abandon their morals to make a success of something they never wanted? YOU voted for it, YOU make it work.

That aside, if you really want them to come together, you should probably reconsider the name calling.

Edited by Setton
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2 hours ago, Grey Area said:

Brexit is complex and multi-faceted.  Yet you keep making points focusing on one particular point.  You need to understand that the Brexit vote was not just about border control, not just about trade.

for the point in hand.  This is not about isolationism.  We are not stopping immigration, but stepping away from the open border policies of Brussels, enforced on EU members.  This policy has been heavily critisised, and has already seen fatal consequences.  Britain has and always will welcome immigrants into the country.

Luckily your hate of Britain cannot conjure up its failure.

the result of the court case will further prolongue things, but Brexit will continue and due process will be respected.  I think it's high time all you remoaners started getting with the program.  Let's start working together eh?  Well those of us that we're actually eligible to vote.

Don't buy into Manfred's and bee's crap. You're smarter than that dude. 

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1 hour ago, Setton said:

We seem to be hearing this line a lot from leave supporters lately. Why should people who vehemently oppose everything the leave campaign stood for be expected to abandon their morals to make a success of something they never wanted?

Because come what may, this process is happening, regardless of how anyone voted.  Best foot forward.  No abandoning of morals necessary.  As a 15 year veteran of the local government I have had to weather a lot of political change and had to make the best of it. I could have spent half my time with the unions shouting and crying like many of my colleagues, but what a waste of time and effort.  I still wholeheartedly reject many of the decisions made by the coalition, but am proud to say my service survived and continues to support the most vulnerable, because I chose to work and not spend all my time complaining.

But fine, whine about it if you want, oppose it if you must, drag it out as much as you can.  That is your prerogative.

2 hours ago, Setton said:

YOU voted for it, YOU make it work.

Sorry, doesn't work like that.  As much as it may p/ss you off, you don't get to sit it out and then come back when actually things turned out okay after all.  Just as those who voted leave don't get to shirk off the bad things.

2 hours ago, Setton said:

That aside, if you really want them to come together, you should probably reconsider the name calling.

Point taken, I personally will not use any derogatory terms anymore, for remainers.

 

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7 hours ago, Setton said:

Why should people who vehemently oppose everything the leave campaign stood for be expected to abandon their morals to make a success of something they never wanted? YOU voted for it, YOU make it work.

Well that's how "democracy" has always been supposed to work, isn't it, at any rate under the way it's currently arranged, that's what supporters of one party are expected to do if the other lot get in, unless, of course, their candidate hates women(TM), in which case they don't have to accept the result. It's just the same as as a general Election. And while Ali may point out that only 37% or whatever it was of the total population voted for Bresit, that was still more than those that voted against, and if we're going to accept the principle of whoever gets the highest amounts of votes gets in, it's the same principle applying here. 

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10 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Isolationism is exactly what is going on. You wanna stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not, then that's your business and i can't tell you what to think.

Why do you keep on insisting this when you know that that's the exact opposite of what the whole argument is all about?

Quote

Look i don't wanna get into a long drawn out debate about it, mate.

Well it's a bit late for that, after 8,000 posts on the subject.

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6 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Don't buy into Manfred's and bee's crap. You're smarter than that dude. 

What is it then? If it's not the hatred of a hardline republican (in the hatred-of-royalty sense) of the nation that still claims dominion over you, why do you argue so passionately with people of a country far away from you who voted to leave a community of nations that would surely only have an incidental effect on your own country? 

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2 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

What is it then? If it's not the hatred of a hardline republican (in the hatred-of-royalty sense) of the nation that still claims dominion over you, why do you argue so passionately with people of a country far away from you who voted to leave a community of nations that would surely only have an incidental effect on your own country? 

...are you for real?

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9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Don't buy into Manfred's and bee's crap. You're smarter than that dude. 

.

getting into a bit of 'divide and rule' are we --- :)

.

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27 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

...are you for real?

why do you never answer things people ask you? People have been asking this of you for months, why you think the Brist are so stupid, but you just duck out of answering with non-answers like this.

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2 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Well it's a bit late for that, after 8,000 posts on the subject.

I keep trying to give him a chance, but it's back to ignore for me.

You can't have a rational conversation with someone that denies any facts presented to them, and can't see beyond their own anti-British bitterness enough to admit that they might not be completely unbiased.

I'm sure there are better ways to wear out my keyboard. And Now For Something Completely Different...

piano2.jpg

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40 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

why do you never answer things people ask you? People have been asking this of you for months, why you think the Brist are so stupid, but you just duck out of answering with non-answers like this.

Hes either a european or Australian

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1 hour ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

Hes either a european or Australian

He's Australian, I believe.

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13 hours ago, Setton said:

Why should people who vehemently oppose everything the leave campaign stood for be expected to abandon their morals to make a success of something they never wanted?

Because that's exactly what those of us who never wanted to join the EU in the first place have been doing these past 25 years?  ;) 

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14 hours ago, Grey Area said:

Because come what may, this process is happening, regardless of how anyone voted.  Best foot forward.  No abandoning of morals necessary.  As a 15 year veteran of the local government I have had to weather a lot of political change and had to make the best of it. I could have spent half my time with the unions shouting and crying like many of my colleagues, but what a waste of time and effort.  I still wholeheartedly reject many of the decisions made by the coalition, but am proud to say my service survived and continues to support the most vulnerable, because I chose to work and not spend all my time complaining.

Or you could have stood up and opposed those decisions. Are you telling me that in all your years in local government, you just obediently went along with whatever the ruling party wanted?
 

Quote

 

But fine, whine about it if you want, oppose it if you must, drag it out as much as you can.  That is your prerogative.

 

And this is what May and others don't seem to get. It is our right to oppose it. If people truly believe it's a disastrous choice for our country, it's their duty to oppose it.

Quote

Sorry, doesn't work like that.  As much as it may p/ss you off, you don't get to sit it out and then come back when actually things turned out okay after all.  Just as those who voted leave don't get to shirk off the bad things.

Actually, that's exactly what remainers can do. You wanted it, time you made a success of it. We're quite happy to sit back and see what happens. If you fail, remainers can always make a future case for rejoining without having compromised their morals.

What I find disappointing in our politicians is that so many who were adamantly remain are now happy to just go along with the government. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about the decision to leave or the triggering of article 50. I'm talking about the acceptance of limited discussion (following today's bill) and the willingness to let May keep as much as possible behind closed doors.

8 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Well that's how "democracy" has always been supposed to work, isn't it, at any rate under the way it's currently arranged, that's what supporters of one party are expected to do if the other lot get in, unless, of course, their candidate hates women(TM), in which case they don't have to accept the result. It's just the same as as a general Election.

So after a general election, you don't expect the opposition to, I don't know, oppose anything? We never expect the losing parties to just go along with it and make the best of it. We expect them to challenge, to scrutinise. That's the only way a democratic society can function. My worry at the moment isn't so much that we're leaving, it's that there is no effective opposing position to make ministers consider their decisions more carefully. Politicians are too afraid of being labelled 'undemocratic' by leavers to challenge the leave position, letting ministers rush things through without proper thought.

Quote

And while Ali may point out that only 37% or whatever it was of the total population voted for Bresit, that was still more than those that voted against, and if we're going to accept the principle of whoever gets the highest amounts of votes gets in, it's the same principle applying here. 

Not sure why you felt the need to include this as it's totally unrelated to the topic at hand. And only interesting from a philosophical point of view.

3 hours ago, Essan said:

Because that's exactly what those of us who never wanted to join the EU in the first place have been doing these past 25 years?  ;) 

Really? So people haven't been going on about how terrible the EU is and how much they wanted to leave for the last 25 years? You might want to look up a couple of things. You know, like Nigel Farage, UKIP and, oh yes, there was this little referendum last year!

This is what really gets me, the UK public chose to join the EU 25 years ago and Eurosceptics haven't stopped complaining about it since. But now that the vote's gone your way this time, you expect everyone else to just fall into line and help you make it work. The hypocrisy is simply staggering.

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6 minutes ago, Setton said:

So after a general election, you don't expect the opposition to, I don't know, oppose anything? We never expect the losing parties to just go along with it and make the best of it. We expect them to challenge, to scrutinise.

You'd rather stand in the way of any attempt to make it work just for the sake of standing up for a principle? You'd rather stand in the way of the functioning of government for the sake of a principle, however much inconvenience it may cause to everyone else and how futile it may be since, unlike a general election, you're unlikely to get a chance to vote again on it? That's an extremely stubborn, dogmatic attitude, the kind of thing that you'd expect from union leaders.

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15 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

You'd rather stand in the way of any attempt to make it work just for the sake of standing up for a principle?

I didn't say I would stand in the way, I said I wouldn't help you. And as, I explained in detail, it's not just for the principle, it's to ensure an effective government and strategy. MPs are elected as representatives of the people. Is it truly democratic to totally disregard the wishes of 48% of the population? Sure, the leave vote won. We leave. But what is best for the remain voters should also be in the equation. Not the main part of it, but part of it nonetheless.

Quote

You'd rather stand in the way of the functioning of government for the sake of a principle, however much inconvenience it may cause to everyone else and how futile it may be since, unlike a general election, you're unlikely to get a chance to vote again on it? That's an extremely stubborn, dogmatic attitude, the kind of thing that you'd expect from union leaders.

No, I want to see a democratically functioning government. I want to see a government that is challenged on its position. I want to see a government that is forced to think about its decisions rather than rushing them through.

The analogy to a general election was yours. Are you starting to realise how flawed it was? As for never getting another vote, you do remember something about 25 years ago right?

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19 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Isolationism is exactly what is going on. You wanna stick your head in the sand and pretend it's not, then that's your business and i can't tell you what to think. Look i don't wanna get into a long drawn out debate about it, mate. Suffice to say that the omens for brexit are not good. You lost that court case, requiring parliamentary approval for any brexit deal. It's a blow for hard brexit and if you can't try your luck with tax haven, taxing the workers up the wazoo hard brexit, then a soft brexit is pointless. As much as you try, your love of Britain cannot just conjure up brexit success, stevewinn.  

Your lack or attempt to address my post was duly noted. As you've admitted you don't want a long drawn out debate, but don't mind driving a narrative which you never back up. like your post above:

Isolationism is going on: Well just don't say it, show us, It'll be interesting to see which countries you are referring to. It cannot be any of the 12 Countries the UK is in talks with, otherwise they wouldn't be in talks.

The Omens for Brexit are not good? I put to you all the doom predictions for Brexit have not materialised, in fact in evidence of that the forecasts have been revised and taking Brexit into consideration; Going forward It puts the UK economy growing faster than any in the EU, and that's out to a date of 2030. Figures out today from the Office of National Statistics and separate figures from the IMF confirm UK economy Grew by 2% across 2016, matching IMF's 2016 estimate and comfortably above IMF’s 2016 estimates for rest of G7 nations.

The Court Case was not a judgement on the Referendum. It was a case about who has the legal right to trigger Article 50. The Court ruled it was Parliament. Parliament has voted twice, overwhelmingly passing The Referendum Bill (2015) and then in December 2016 voted unanimously agreeing to the time frame for triggering Article 50. - Today the Government have come forward with a Bill which should take around two weeks to pass. (picture of the bill below) Brexit is Brexit and we are leaving. you keep referring to hard Brexit or Soft Brexit, Please keep up - Soft Brexit does not exists. We are leaving the Single Market. that's soft Brexit dead. there is only one type of Brexit.

Tax Haven & Taxing Workers - As for lowering corporation tax its already been decided it will drop to 17% - The Budget as been committed. the Allowance before you pay tax as increased.  The Personal Allowance is the amount of income you can earn before you start paying Income Tax. This is currently £10,600 – it will already rise to £11,000 in 2016, and will now increase further to £11,500 in April 2017. The point at which you pay the higher rate of Income Tax will increase from £42,385 to £43,000 in 2016 and to £45,000 in April 2017.

The Love of ones country as never weakened it in times of peril indeed it has strengthened it, and i unashamedly, patriotically believe in my country and come what may this is my home. As a people we have stood and fought for what we have, its this what separates us from failed countries we see around the world where the stability of Democracy, Law and Order and societal code have not flourished by people rolling over, submitting and fleeing. We've done neither and plan not to start.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3GJx1VWgAEy08w.jpg

 

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7 hours ago, LV-426 said:

I keep trying to give him a chance, but it's back to ignore for me.

You can't have a rational conversation with someone that denies any facts presented to them, and can't see beyond their own anti-British bitterness enough to admit that they might not be completely unbiased.

I'm sure there are better ways to wear out my keyboard. And Now For Something Completely Different...

piano2.jpg

I am? Damn!

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6 hours ago, Mr.United_Nations said:

Hes either a european or Australian

Alternatively, one could say that discussion is what happens on a discussion forum. 

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7 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

why do you never answer things people ask you? People have been asking this of you for months, why you think the Brist are so stupid, but you just duck out of answering with non-answers like this.

The thing is that i have answered all your questions many time. Its just that you'all obsessed with continuously asking those very same questions over and over again... almost as if you're all trying to change my mind. I don't have a problem saying i was wrong but after reading all your replies and arguments i have yet to be convinced. Surely Manfred i shouldn't have to apologise for that... i have clearly stated that this subject has been on the hamster wheel for too long and think we should just move on and discuss other topics also. I don't mind friendly banter, in fact i welcome it but is it absolutely necessary discussing brexit exclusively to the detriment of all over subjects?

   

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19 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

The thing is that i have answered all your questions many time. Its just that you'all obsessed with continuously asking those very same questions over and over again... almost as if you're all trying to change my mind. I don't have a problem saying i was wrong but after reading all your replies and arguments i have yet to be convinced. Surely Manfred i shouldn't have to apologise for that... i have clearly stated that this subject has been on the hamster wheel for too long and think we should just move on and discuss other topics also. I don't mind friendly banter, in fact i welcome it but is it absolutely necessary discussing brexit exclusively to the detriment of all over subjects?

   

You're quite right.

Let's talk about Trump. Did you know that there's a new president now? I'd have thought it would have been mentioned a bit more, wouldn't you? :angry:

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