Kushner in charge of peace in the Middle East

[Frank Merton]

3 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

It's not about land as you try to present here my friend, it's about the right of those who lived there and were forced out of it. It's my opinion that their conflict has far larger consequences than to simply be only about and in that 'tiny piece of land'. Is it so hard to give Palestinians part of Jerusalem for them to have part of it as their capital? Is that such hard thing to do so that we rather choose more insecurity and for what? 

Problem with settlements is that it seems more important to make some European or Asian, American Jewish family ( with no connection to Arab world at all ) can come to Israel and settle in parts of East Jerusalem? Is that more important than to make peace for domestic population? Jews have same right to live and prosper there but it seems that their own security is broken to settle the former.

The Palestinians are the primary "bad guys" here, with their adamant refusal to accept anything other than the destruction of Israel.  That does not mean, however, that the world has to go the other way and insist on the destruction of Palestine.  A compromise is necessary, and that will take time as the populations and cultures evolve.  I just have to observe that Trump is acting the buffoon, as thought he actually wants to invite further terrorism, by taking such a hard-line view.  Some horrible thing is going to happen and then Trump will us it as an excuse for escalation or whatever his aim is, and it will be because of his actions.

[+and-then]

Just now, Sir Smoke aLot said:

It's not about land as you try to present here my friend, it's about the right of those who lived there and were forced out of it. It's my opinion that their conflict has far larger consequences than to simply be only about and in that 'tiny piece of land'. Is it so hard to give Palestinians part of Jerusalem for them to have part of it as their capital? Is that such hard thing to do so that we rather choose more insecurity and for what? 

Problem with settlements is that it seems more important to make some European or Asian, American Jewish family ( with no connection to Arab world at all ) can come to Israel and settle in parts of East Jerusalem? Is that more important than to make peace for domestic population? Jews have same right to live and prosper there but it seems that their own security is broken to settle the former.

 

But it IS all about the land.  As I mentioned on another thread, the PLO was formed in 1964, 3 full years before any settlement existed in Israel/Palestine and also before Jerusalem was reunified.  So what was the Palestine Liberation Organization formed for?  Why, to liberate PALESTINE, of course.  Every square inch that had a Jew on it.  That was the goal then and it is still the goal today.  If one listens to what they say in Arabic, there can be no doubt of this fact.  It is this intransigence on their part that has opened the way for right-wing Israelis to continue to build on more of the land.  The only way either group will ever accept the other will be after one of them is totally destroyed as a functional people in the land.  This is the outcome of such hatred and YES it goes both ways.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

1 minute ago, Frank Merton said:

The Palestinians are the primary "bad guys" here, with their adamant refusal to accept anything other than the destruction of Israel.  That does not mean, however, that the world has to go the other way and insist on the destruction of Palestine.  A compromise is necessary, and that will take time as the populations and cultures evolve.  I just have to observe that Trump is acting the buffoon, as thought he actually wants to invite further terrorism, by taking such a hard-line view.  Some horrible thing is going to happen and then Trump will us it as an excuse for escalation or whatever his aim is, and it will be because of his actions.

I am very afraid of that, hell, i am also afraid for Canada these days. I hope it's wrong.

1 minute ago, and then said:

But it IS all about the land.  As I mentioned on another thread, the PLO was formed in 1964, 3 full years before any settlement existed in Israel/Palestine and also before Jerusalem was reunified.  So what was the Palestine Liberation Organization formed for?  Why, to liberate PALESTINE, of course.  Every square inch that had a Jew on it.  That was the goal then and it is still the goal today.  If one listens to what they say in Arabic, there can be no doubt of this fact.  It is this intransigence on their part that has opened the way for right-wing Israelis to continue to build on more of the land.  The only way either group will ever accept the other will be after one of them is totally destroyed as a functional people in the land.  This is the outcome of such hatred and YES it goes both ways.

They can't liberate all of the land, it's long lost dream for Palestinians but they have to be recognized as a country with East Jerusalem as their capital. As for Hamas, sure, they didn't change their goals but see the Hamas and West Bank officials dispute, one want's to fight and liberate, others wan't peaceful solution - which one helped Palestinian people better?

I think they are both in same position even tho their goals differ on large scale. Some Palestinians say a lot bad things but also there are many bad things spoken by Israelis too i still have picture of chanting crowds which sing a 'peaceful' song about dying children. Pointing of finger can't help here because both sides made wrongs, it's over 100 years of struggle for ordinary people with Palestinians always being on the weak side.

[RoofGardener]

You see Sir SmokeaLot, there you have the PLO in a nutshell.

On what historical or legal basis can the PLO claim any part of Jerusalem as their capital ? They only even MENTIONED that in around 1988 ??

I would suggest that they only did it in order to (a) spite the Jews, and (b) to set a condition that they KNEW that Israel would never agree to. In other words, to perpetuate their struggle, and ensure that there could be no negotiated settlement. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by RoofGardener