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New research debunks part of Tunguska Event


Still Waters
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Posted (IP: Staff) ·

On a summer morning in 1908, one of the largest explosions in human history took place in Russia. The cause of the blast has remained a mystery of mythic proportions, even working its way into "The X-Files."

Now, newly published research seems to debunk part of the popular chronology of what happened that day, dismantling part of the real-world backstory for the iconic sci-fi series at the same time.

https://www.cnet.com/news/russia-lake-cheko-study-tunguska-event-meteorite-x-files/

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Interesting. Is it possible we have been looking in the wrong direction this whole time? Are there any subterranean phenomena that could account for the flattening of such wide expanses of forest?   Perhaps something related to the methane-induced holes that sprout up in Russia? I dunno, I'm not a geologist.

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What the article seems to be saying is.....the LAKE....wasnt formed by an impact......but at the same time, witness reports and the broken trees suggests something big did indeed go bang.

It hasnt ruled out a meteor strike....its just ruled the lake isnt part of it

So... thats the only negative in the argument. And it doesn't debunk the meteorite theory at all.

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20 minutes ago, seeder said:

What the article seems to be saying is.....the LAKE....wasnt formed by an impact......but at the same time, witness reports and the broken trees suggests something big did indeed go bang.

It hasnt ruled out a meteor strike....its just ruled the lake isnt part of it

So... thats the only negative in the argument. And it doesn't debunk the meteorite theory at all.

But there's no crater to go along with a meteor strike if you take the lake out of the equation.

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I always thought that the leading theory (at one time at least) was that the meteor/asteroid/comet blew up in mid-air and didn't actually impact?

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2 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

But there's no crater to go along with a meteor strike if you take the lake out of the equation.

 

Similar to the more recent chelyabinsk meteor....caught on film, caused damage and injuries....yet...no significant crater

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I always understood that a meteor exploded before it hit the surface, perhaps a few hundred feet in the air. Has this been disproved?

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1 hour ago, Susanc241 said:

I always understood that a meteor exploded before it hit the surface, perhaps a few hundred feet in the air. Has this been disproved?

 

well wiki has a list of lots of impact craters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_impact_craters_on_Earth

But smaller ones usually dont even hit earth due to burning up.....

However there are quite a few that have hit
 

Quote

 

7 Most Massive Single Meteorites on Earth

http://scribol.com/science/space/7-most-massive-single-meteorites-on-earth/

 

 

 

 

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I know from back in my 'nuclear' days that an airburst actually causes more blast damage than a ground detonation. The shockwave moving down collides with a lens of superheated air moving up from the ground below, and everything gets 'squirted' out to the sides at high speed.

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3 hours ago, Susanc241 said:

I always understood that a meteor exploded before it hit the surface, perhaps a few hundred feet in the air. Has this been disproved?

I've heard this hypothesis as well. I think there are various ideas as to what might have happened. I haven't heard that any one explanation has been definitely proven to be correct though.

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I remember reading something back in the early 80's about it possibly being caused by anti-matter. Have not heard much about that theory after that.  The meteor explosion a mile above the ground seem the most likely cause.

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So it appears that the lake hadn't been associated with the Tunguska event until relatively recently, 2001 or so. Prior to that, it was thought to be older.

Gasperini et al. in 2007 (and 2008 in response to a 2008 paper disputing their claims) raised some points:

Quote

1. The location of the lake is consistent with the continuation of the assumed trajectory of the Tunguska impactor beyond the epicentre of the explosion.

2. The age of the lake is unknown.

3. A bright seismic reflection is apparent in the seismic data beneath the lake. The authors claim that this might be evidence for impactor material or impact-compaction of the sediments.

4. The lake has a funnel-like morphology. The authors claim this is unusual for the area and similar to other small impact craters on Earth.

 

On further reflection (2008), they doubled-down on a tenuous interpretation of their seismic data that favored their hypothesis, interpolated sedimentation rates into their interpretation of their seismic (getting into double jeopardy here), and said that oral accounts were uncertain that Lake Cheko existed before 1908.

None of these points are very strong. Fragments from a burst don't have to travel in the same trajectory, new research seems to show it's older than 1908, geophysical data is non-unique - not a smoking gun here, ditto, they're stretching their non-unique interpretation with inferred sedimentation (getting real dicey), etc.

Now it's again thought to be older. Air burst is still looking nifty.

EDIT: I'd urge anyone with an interest in the event to check out the Gasperini paper from 2007, the Collins paper from 2008, and the Gasperini replyl from 2008. They're fairly short, and provide some good thoughts on both sides of the issue.

Edited by Socks Junior
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Clearly secret nazy nukes. 

They had to experiment somewhere remote and out of sight. 

 

Heck, it was so secret that they started experimenting two decades before they even existed! 

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Flattened 770 square miles of forest.  

and Lake Cheko:

09-cheko-30june08.jpg

I can measure this lake in trees with my bare eyes.  It's nowhere even close to 770 trees across.   It's a lot smaller than I thought it would be based on how important it was being made up to be in this mystery.

So that we learn this isn't the epicenter of an impact, that I'm sorry to say contributes nothing to disproving impact theory.  

However if there's meteorite fragments in unusually high amounts all over the once-flattened area, that's pudding.

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6 hours ago, Parsec said:

Clearly secret nazy nukes. 

They had to experiment somewhere remote and out of sight. 

 

Heck, it was so secret that they started experimenting two decades before they even existed! 

What makes it think it was a nuke?

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Wasn't there a Mythbusters episode where they exactly (to scale anyway) duplicated the tree fall of the explosion with an air burst explosion.

I tend to agree this does not dismiss that there was a explosion, only that the lake wasn't created at that time.

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 I thought the leading theory was, as others have posted, the object never reached the ground but exploded in the atmosphere. This new research just supports that theory.

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I thought it was the mid-air explosion theory, too. Either that, or some giant alien farted. :rofl:

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I read somewhere that this event corresponded with one of Tesla's experiments where he was trying to transmit some form of electricity through the atmosphere. More than likely not, since TPTB would have used it as a weapon by now...

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I'm sure others could post more.  There's no shortage of articles on it and Eyewitnesses so the underground geology thing is probably not too likely.


Eyewitness after eyewitness but I don't read Cyrillic. 

I'm sure there's plenty, just hasn't all made it to the net yet. Just One source of Eyewitness Accounts " Sun, moving across the sky. About 10 minutes later, there was a flash and a loud "knocking" sound similar to artillery fire that went in short bursts spaced increasingly wider apart. Eyewitnesses closer to the explosion reported the sound source moving during each barrage, east to north. The sounds were accompanied by a shock wave that knocked people off their feet and broke windows hundreds of miles away. " Src: http://www.crystalinks.com/tunguskaevent.html

 

On the other hand, maybe others will post more like this:

I heard it was trumpeting horn sounds from the great flatulence
coming down from the atmosphere to knock out the fires
that the little people and sprites had started,
you know as they always do that time of year to herd
the unicorns into other valley realms.

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On 22/01/2017 at 7:55 AM, Four Winds said:

 I thought the leading theory was, as others have posted, the object never reached the ground but exploded in the atmosphere. This new research just supports that theory.

I followed this with fascination for many years.  I always thought that the greatest puzzle was the lack of a crater. If I recall they drained swamps and all sorts and never found a thing.  Then Russian scientists experimented with small scale air bursts which  seemed to replicate perfectly small scale.

When was this lake considered a cert for the impact crater.  I missed that bit. 

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