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Protesting for what?


Baz Dane

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5 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

:o  Whoooooaaaaaaaaa! :o 

And Im just some undereducated redneck guy.  Since hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, imagine what could occur if the females of the species did not have the gentleness and forebereance of saints... :P

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6 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

And Im just some undereducated redneck guy.  Since hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, imagine what could occur if the females of the species did not have the gentleness and forebereance of saints... :P

Wellllll, then there's me.................................... ;) 

Just kidding..................................... :P 

Then again, I was a military wife for 21 years. One learns a lot :w00t:    :D   

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:no: 

Edited by Manfred von Dreidecker
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Muslim Women’s March Organizer Attacks Female Genital Mutilation Survivor Hirsi Ali: I Would Take Her ‘Vagina Away’

Sarsour is the same woman who tweeted one of the most vile attacks on a woman in the history of Twitter

http://www.infowars.com/muslim-womens-march-organizer-attacks-female-genital-mutilation-survivor-hirsi-ali-i-would-take-her-vagina-away/

 

Idiots.

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Women’s March Speaker Kidnapped, Raped & Tortured Gay Man to Death

One speaker at the march, Donna Hylton, is a convicted felon who took part in the kidnapping, torturing, sodomizing and murder of a homosexual man

 

http://www.infowars.com/womens-march-speaker-kidnapped-raped-tortured-gay-man-to-death/

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20 hours ago, Sweetpumper said:

MILO: ‘Nothing Says Women’s Rights Like a Sharia Law Activist Who Wears the Hijab’

“This is Linda Sarsour, the Hamas-loving Muslim woman throwing up the ISIS sign that somehow was in charge of the women’s march on Washington. Because nothing says women’s rights like a Sharia law activist in a hijab,” proclaimed MILO ironically. “Seriously, this is how stupid liberals are.”

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/01/25/milo-nothing-says-womens-rights-like-sharia-law-activist-wears-hijab/

Highlights from the article:

Quote

 

Linda isn’t a pretty woman, look at that schnozz, and that jaw line! Plus she has the little smirk Muslim women always have when they are pulling the wool over the eyes of western civilization. I always argue against the full burka but she could use one.”

“You see a lot of masculine jaw lines, especially on young female journalists,” MILO concluded. “Some of them are trannies of course so the jawline make sense, but others have it due to heightened levels of testosterone typically driven by aggressive masculine postures. Activists are pushy, and that raises testosterone.”

 

Clearly, truly and sincerely concerned with Women's Rights.

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Activists are pushy and that raises testosterone? Clearly I just need to go do some protesting rather than buy the test booster ive been looking at. 

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12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Why don't you do that then. Inform me how it's debunked, if you want me to believe you

I will surely do so but not one the premise me wanting you to believe me, rather its in greater benefit for you, naturally. An understanding of nuance provides greater perspective into matters we often break into black or whites like most things we seen in the streamlined global culture we have helped develop.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Though, things I have gone to to search, ( and I have done it many times to inform myself on various women's and other issues ) so I have a pretty good picture

To the contrary I would say a more generalized view than anything and I apologize if that comes off a tad cold I sure you I don't mean it in that manner.  Hell I was once a proponent of the same perspectives you herald on this subject. 

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Granted, there is a difference in salary to hourly. And yes, hourly does not have that

I greatly appreciate your honesty as we would make no ground if both of us didn't want an honest conversation and I'm glad that is our intent.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

But if we go to the debate that's it's life choices, what happens if women choose to not marry and have children, is it debunked there?

Life choices are a major variable. People and I mean of both genders who choose not to marry and don't have children tend to do better financially than those who do not especially in the corporate culture.

For an example women in cities are outpacing men in secondary education and because of that they are earning more, note they are also childless and single* ive posted the link just below* note politifact is left leaning and they are confirming a right leaning source here*

"Finally, we should note that this comparison holds true because childless, single young women tend to have more education and qualify for higher paying jobs."

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/09/genevieve-wood/what-pay-gap-young-women-out-earn-men-cities-gop-p/

There are an endless amount of material to prove more women then men attend college and university and this in itself should prove that we as a society are doing more for young girls than young boys. Average grade for young girls is an A , the average for a boy is C. Modern feminism still cries about patriarchy yet it seems to benefit them currently more than young boys. Considering Male suicide rate is 3/4 of the total there is no doubt some societal negligence at hand. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-37107208

"Fewer programmes have focused on getting more men into higher education. Educationalists say the underrepresentation of male university students is down to attainment patterns in schools: girls outperform boys and are more likely to stay on at sixth form. But the reasons behind this could be cultural"

https://www.theguardian.com/education/datablog/2013/jan/29/how-many-men-and-women-are-studying-at-my-university

Young single women not only are more educated, they earn more because of this which is a great thing but it is unfortunate we are neglecting young boys.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

There was a salary job I had, and when discussing with a male co-worker, ( we both were just recruited fresh from college, with the same schedule and such, and found out when we happened to discussed our salaries, he mentioned he was getting a certain that was indeed more per the amount I was was earning. And we both were single, childless, and working the same amount of time. He noticed my shocked of how he was making more, and tried to say that he wasn't sure he was making that, just to not upset me. But it was too late, I knew. That just blew me away. And trust me, I have been informing myself ever since. There just happens to be two sides to it, doesn't it? 

I am sorry to here of such a thing happening to you. I would also be feeling the same emotions you did. A major factor in male to female wage differences in jobs has been wage bargaining.  

Here is a research paper by Jenny Säve-Söderbergh. Let me just post a little bit of her abstract here. I will post the link to the paper just below the quote.

"Women consistently submit lower wage bids than men do, even when various individual and employer characteristics have been controlled for."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242241658_Are_Women_Asking_for_Low_Wages_Individual_Wage_Bargaining_and_Gender_Wage_Differentials_Working_Paper

I truly believe this may be related to an estrogen, testosterone factor , personality differences, evolutionary traits. Women are not as competitive in the wage department as men, this definitely does not mean all women there a very very successful women are have harnessed their abilities to bargain and have risen to very prestigious positions in this world. Not all men are great bargainers and I think along side with critical thinking, value of the self should be taught to all children.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

And trust me, I have been informing myself ever since. There just happens to be two sides to it, doesn't it? 

I do believe you have been informing yourself but to confirm your bias in the same manner I would research my religion to confirm my bias and my experience.  In all truthfulness decades ago the wage gap was likely existent but those times are not being discussed what's being discussed is the modern world.  
 

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

If you had noticed, I word things as opinion

 

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Shallow? Well, that's your opinion.

It was observational as what I saw was a view completely void of nuance.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

There always seem to be a similar pattern how some,

When you are looking for a pattern you'll find one. Confirmation bias** Pareidolia**

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I try to keep an open mind,

A respectable trait.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

The thing is, I see it more with women. When there is a murder/suicide in a domestic violence relationship


Men make up to 3/4 of total suicides and murder victims. Domestic violence is terrible on both sides but we have 0 idea as to the true extent of domestic violence against men when there is such a stigma around them coming forward. Men barely have a fraction of the support systems offered to the opposite sex same with support for mental health.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Have you experienced a situation where you were felt you were wronged because of your gender

I was a little brown kid growing up in a small white town. Note I experience small amounts of racism here and there but there were a couple of girls who were OUTRIGHT bullies, they would bully me then tell the teacher and play victim. I couldn't even understand what the heck was going on haha. Its like they knew they were perceived a certain way and took advantage of that. 

Sorry for this long essay of a post , I wanted to get more across maybe in the next response *

 

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12 hours ago, Thorvir said:

Good post, and thank you for helping me understand you.  Are you a bit fearful for your safety if the bad guys find out you walked away from their faith?

Any time! Yes I am. Contrary to the happy go lucky spin MSM and the left has put on Islam, the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death... 1.5 billion muslims even if a tiny fraction of them are "true" muslims and actually follow their scriptures then people like me are in danger. I was thinking of releasing some writings on debunking the modern muslims islam under a pseudonym.

12 hours ago, Thorvir said:

Well, it's more political than anything else, the left is really addicted to the "blame the victim" mentality.  The Big Bad Old US is oppressing those innocent islamists and causing all the problems in the Middle East....and some such stuff.

Yes its definitely political and massively funded by the Saudi and Gulf states who have spent over the past 5 decades hundreds of billions on exporting Islam, Wahhabism to the west.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Have you searched other religions? Or you just believe in a higher power?


Yes, I have researched Hinduism, Buddhism, some new age religions but they all have the same discrepancies. Islam is the one religion I have researched extensively compared to the others.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Despite growing up secular, I had very few years of being an Atheist until I just believed in a very New Age way. Is one really feel that one who embraces their belief, despite all the restraints, should be discouraged? I feel everyone has a right to believe and practice what they believe in, ( or not believe in, Atheists etc.) Just as long as it's not harmful to others, including forcing belief onto others. 

I see, I think we have a evolutionary need to believe in something more. I also believe everyone has the right to their beliefs so long as they are benign. I believe in a higher power, life after death , semi spiritual I guess but I do not believe in any earthly religion, scripture or deity.

12 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

I do not know as much about Islam, but could the hijab (am I spelling it correctly?) be the same as one would wear a cross? Or the head cover that I see Jewish men wear? Or does each item mean different things? 


That's alright, we all know and don't know somethings :D . Yup hijab is the proper spelling. That is the argument made by muslims that it is simply like a cross or a head covering like jewish men wear. But it is different. Every symbol and object has a different purpose in different religions. The hijab has historically been enforced through shaming and or violence. The fact some modern muslim women advocate the hijab shoes they are experiencing a weird Stockholm syndrome. During the 50s, 60s etc muslim women fought to remove the hijab, there are photos from Iran where women protested the religious regime by removing their hijabs but through decades of religious funded propaganda it has made a come back...  According to the Hadith which are used to interpret the quran a woman who goes past child bearing can remove the hijab. This implies that women in islam are regarded mostly for child bearing and for being kept in the house. They are viewed as property and the hijab reinforces this by saying Allah wants you to wear this, his purpose for you is to be an obedient wife. Muslim women who argue otherwise are utterly brainwashed and deluded in their faith. The Quran and Sahih Hadith ( authentic hadith) portray this blatantly. There are authentic hadith which allow the beating of a wife with a stick no thicker than your finger I think.

The Quran literally cannot be interpreted without the Sahih hadith. Without the Sahih hadith most of the rituals, prayers in islam would not exist. They are integral to Islam. So when I hear muslims reply and say they believe in only the Quran they are lying. They could not pray with only the Quran , the instructions for the Namaz/Salah are from the hadith... 50% of Islam is the Quran the other 50% is the Sahih Hadiths. 





 

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1 hour ago, aquatus1 said:

Highlights from the article:

Clearly, truly and sincerely concerned with Women's Rights.

No, he's probably more concerned about human rights in general. He is a provocateur by self admission and a troll. He is more of an entertainer I would say more than anything. Why do you get so salty so quickly over an obvious satirisation of a situation.

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Provocateur, you say?  You should take notes.  Your own attempt was far too ham-handed to be effective provocation.

If you wish to believe that he is (probably) more concerned with human rights, you go right ahead.  I will consider what sort of people typically say the thing she did in the context that he did, and form my own conclusion.

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1 hour ago, AdealJustice said:

I will surely do so but not one the premise me wanting you to believe me, rather its in greater benefit for you, naturally. An understanding of nuance provides greater perspective into matters we often break into black or whites like most things we seen in the streamlined global culture we have helped develop.
 

In a sense, I'm thankful for your thoughts. And I'm not disagreeing with you, that it could be beneficial. ( I could joke and ask where have you been for the last thirty years. ;) ) If anything, it's all too little too late. If there is anything that could be informational for those around me, like my daughter and others who have more of a future than Ii do, yes, I would hope so. I still do believe strongly, there are two sides to this, and sometimes there is a cause to very frustrated at the lack of equal treatment. I do not want my daughter, and nieces to have to struggle harder than men, ( like I have ) or have to surrender and be left behind, ( which again, I felt I have ) 

I find it interesting how you explain of the nuances and how we should look at things. I fully agree. I'm not a Trump supporter, but I do have a friend who finds it essential to be helped by Trump and what Trump promises. He's a business owner and have often relates his struggles of such situations in his life, and as his friend, I can see his side of it. I try very hard to see all sides. ( On some days, it is harder, like I think it is for all of us. ) What gets me, ( and I'm not saying it is done here, but have experienced in real life from time to time. ) Is having to show how both sides are just as essential and that the other side only feels their side is the only thing. 

Quote

To the contrary I would say a more generalized view than anything and I apologize if that comes off a tad cold I sure you I don't mean it in that manner.  Hell I was once a proponent of the same perspectives you herald on this subject. 

 

I thank you for your words. :blush: And I think, what I might feel I come off as being justified for my frustrations, I shouldn't be so quick to see the same type of behavior as being offensive. It's all good. :yes: I am curious as to why, with some, they don't see the pain and frustrations that those who protest, ( the non-violent ones, who just want to speak up about their situations ). I wish we all could understand why we speak up for what we believe in. *shrugs* 

Quote

greatly appreciate your honesty as we would make no ground if both of us didn't want an honest conversation and I'm glad that is our intent.

I always felt that message boards, such as this one, was for talking about what is dear to us, no matter the board. (being UM is about strange things.) I feel that it's a plus that we come to learn and challenge, and see a whole new outlook on topics that we never thought of, in our own point of views. Granted, some may feel, they can't understand another, but I would think that would be a practice in respect and restraint. ( I also think, some view it as a place to blow steam off too, and I say this, well............... because I may have thought that for myself as well...................... :blush: ..............................) But nevertheless, I respect your thoughts on this, and greatly appreciate it. :yes: 

Quote

Life choices are a major variable. People and I mean of both genders who choose not to marry and don't have children tend to do better financially than those who do not especially in the corporate culture.

For an example women in cities are outpacing men in secondary education and because of that they are earning more, note they are also childless and single* ive posted the link just below* note politifact is left leaning and they are confirming a right leaning source here*

"Finally, we should note that this comparison holds true because childless, single young women tend to have more education and qualify for higher paying jobs."

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/09/genevieve-wood/what-pay-gap-young-women-out-earn-men-cities-gop-p/

There are an endless amount of material to prove more women then men attend college and university and this in itself should prove that we as a society are doing more for young girls than young boys. Average grade for young girls is an A , the average for a boy is C. Modern feminism still cries about patriarchy yet it seems to benefit them currently more than young boys. Considering Male suicide rate is 3/4 of the total there is no doubt some societal negligence at hand. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-37107208

"Fewer programmes have focused on getting more men into higher education. Educationalists say the underrepresentation of male university students is down to attainment patterns in schools: girls outperform boys and are more likely to stay on at sixth form. But the reasons behind this could be cultural"

https://www.theguardian.com/education/datablog/2013/jan/29/how-many-men-and-women-are-studying-at-my-university

Young single women not only are more educated, they earn more because of this which is a great thing but it is unfortunate we are neglecting young boys.

 

Thanks for the link! :) And yes, I have read and observed how some sources see that women have gain in various areas. And that there are more women than men in colleges. And I do feel the :( in seeing this. I would never want me losing, so women can gain. I'm mother of a young man as well as a young woman. Fortunately, both have attended ( and one already graduated four years) college. I can understand the frustrations of some who feel that they now are in the backlash of women and their goals to achieve the same thing. One thing I also will be honest about, ( and admit I'm not proud of it ) is the feeling of maybe some men deserve it. Remember, I admit this to be not an admirable line of thinking. Especially, since I would hate for my son to have to suffer. I also do not want my daughter to suffer either. 

And yes, I do see we are neglecting young boys, and boys and girls are our future. I see it in retail, in how what use to be in abundance for a male buying market, is not more so for Women, with Men now losing out. I will admit, in all areas now, it seems a pendulum effect has swung from one side to another, and I don't think for must, that is what they didn't want to happen. 

It makes me wonder why we as a people, don't focus on why is it there are more female students to male and how we can get both genders to be college educated. 

Quote

I am sorry to here of such a thing happening to you. I would also be feeling the same emotions you did. A major factor in male to female wage differences in jobs has been wage bargaining.  

Here is a research paper by Jenny Säve-Söderbergh. Let me just post a little bit of her abstract here. I will post the link to the paper just below the quote.

"Women consistently submit lower wage bids than men do, even when various individual and employer characteristics have been controlled for."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242241658_Are_Women_Asking_for_Low_Wages_Individual_Wage_Bargaining_and_Gender_Wage_Differentials_Working_Paper

I truly believe this may be related to an estrogen, testosterone factor , personality differences, evolutionary traits. Women are not as competitive in the wage department as men, this definitely does not mean all women there a very very successful women are have harnessed their abilities to bargain and have risen to very prestigious positions in this world. Not all men are great bargainers and I think along side with critical thinking, value of the self should be taught to all children.

 

I agree on all counts of this last bit here. And Yes, I see it as how it was taught to each gender as they were young. That also gets me, that in the past, there were certain behaviors that is expected in each. Yet, both genders are capable of the positive and negative behaviors. I'm glad you included that it's not always the same in each, but it does stem, I believe, in how they are taught. And my opinion, is that it must stop, and that I am happy to see, that it has changed to show more equality and how we expect the same behaviors and motives in both gender in our young. Unfortunately, there is still some who believe in separating the ideals of how each should be. 

I must admit, I could one of those who is not aggressive in the various areas, but my husband and I made sure both our son and daughter is. I don't know, why being with me, it's my gender, or I'm just doing out of me being me. ( then again, not aggressive, but underhand................. I found myself being very good in that. ;) ................wait a minute! I said too much! :o  ) Well, anyways, in which I feel is something that tends to be part of the problem where I see, in the past, that has held back women in various areas for sometime. 

Thank you for your thoughts on my experience of my salary job. I didn't stay long in that company, well, let's just say, that bit was one of many many negative situations that turned me off. (and that I got married and my hubby went to join the military) and on that note, yes, the fact of women who stayed single and childless, do tend to go further. I love your point about it's that way for both genders. From my point of view, it wasn't always like that. You know, men could have the wife and family and move ahead, but it's one way or another for the women. But I do see the downfalls for what it was like for men at work, with families. Not the strongest bonds with the family as they stayed at work more to move ahead. ( I also wonder if that is why women are more apt in making the life choices they make, ie: marriage and children, because it doesn't seem to be worth it to sacrifice for how much they are being paid compared to men. 

I'm not saying men don't make sacrifice, I see that is far from it. But, it is still less in wage, in various salary jobs for women, that I still notice. I wonder if an experiment in some jobs to temporary have the same salary wage for both genders who are the same in their lifestyles and position at work, and see how that works out. 

Quote

I do believe you have been informing yourself but to confirm your bias in the same manner I would research my religion to confirm my bias and my experience.  In all truthfulness decades ago the wage gap was likely existent but those times are not being discussed what's being discussed is the modern world.  
 

True. True. I agree. And I thank you for your humbleness in how you compare yourself to me. Yes, it might be, that I research to confirm my bias in most cases. I do like to think, that I can grow from that to an objective thinking when reading fully on something. Plus, with a slight learning disability ( and that's another story *shrugs* ) sometimes, what interests us and as to why, helps us wanting to understand it. 

When it does come to the subject of the wage gap, I hope I can convey to you that I see it as very multi-leveled in it's outlook as I do feel that I see the anti-abortion/pro-life debates. Despite I am pro-choice, I can respect and admire most who feel that life should be saved. I can't fault that. But there are varying degrees of as to how things are looked at, and what some goals are for both sides that could be questionable. 

My bias could be swayed from my experiences, and I have had varying experiences to get me to an old curmudgeon about it. I really want better for the following generations.

Quote

It was observational as what I saw was a view completely void of nuance.

 

 Cool. :tu: I get that. 

Quote

When you are looking for a pattern you'll find one. Confirmation bias** Pareidolia**

I see that. 

Quote

A respectable trait. 

Thank you. :) 

 

Quote


Men make up to 3/4 of total suicides and murder victims. Domestic violence is terrible on both sides but we have 0 idea as to the true extent of domestic violence against men when there is such a stigma around them coming forward. Men barely have a fraction of the support systems offered to the opposite sex same with support for mental health.

Yes, I agree. I observed that first hand when I help that gentleman who was a victim. And he was so shy and quiet about it. I felt so much for him, because I saw that stigma he must be feeling, in his eyes. I felt for him as the same way I felt for my friend of mine who was also my neighbor back on the base. ( I had to stand up to her SOB of a husband and get him to stop mistreating her. ) Yet, I do see the difference. Where my friend was free to tell me about it, and was relieved to see me try to get her husband to stop his behavior, this poor gentleman was timid about letting others know. I do see this. 

Though for my observations, I have more observations of men mistreating their wives over the opposite. I will never forget, ( in the same base housing, but it was the other neighbors on the other side ) in which I came into the master bedroom to get something and through the very thin walls, I could hear the husband screaming and beating his wife. I have never felt so horrified at what I was hearing. And the thing is, she never turned to anyone. I told another friend about that later, and she then said something about how that told her why this wife was wearing an arm cast on her around the same time. 

Quote

I was a little brown kid growing up in a small white town. Note I experience small amounts of racism here and there but there were a couple of girls who were OUTRIGHT bullies, they would bully me then tell the teacher and play victim. I couldn't even understand what the heck was going on haha. Its like they knew they were perceived a certain way and took advantage of that. 

I think I had asked Astek, but I appreciate your honesty and your experience. And (((hugs))) for having to go through that. Thank you for honesty and strength. There will always be bullies and those who will be victimized. I know. I grew up secular, but have had various neighborhood kids judgmentally mistreat me because of not participating in religious activities. Makes me wonder how those girls are being treated at home. But I want to express, that's no excuse. 

Quote


Sorry for this long essay of a post , I wanted to get more across maybe in the next response *

And that you did, and I thank you. Don't be sorry, I found your post very enlightening. :)  :yes: 

I salute you, Sweetcheeks. 

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2 hours ago, AdealJustice said:


Yes, I have researched Hinduism, Buddhism, some new age religions but they all have the same discrepancies. Islam is the one religion I have researched extensively compared to the others.

I see, I think we have a evolutionary need to believe in something more. I also believe everyone has the right to their beliefs so long as they are benign. I believe in a higher power, life after death , semi spiritual I guess but I do not believe in any earthly religion, scripture or deity.


That's alright, we all know and don't know somethings :D . Yup hijab is the proper spelling. That is the argument made by muslims that it is simply like a cross or a head covering like jewish men wear. But it is different. Every symbol and object has a different purpose in different religions. The hijab has historically been enforced through shaming and or violence. The fact some modern muslim women advocate the hijab shoes they are experiencing a weird Stockholm syndrome. During the 50s, 60s etc muslim women fought to remove the hijab, there are photos from Iran where women protested the religious regime by removing their hijabs but through decades of religious funded propaganda it has made a come back...  According to the Hadith which are used to interpret the quran a woman who goes past child bearing can remove the hijab. This implies that women in islam are regarded mostly for child bearing and for being kept in the house. They are viewed as property and the hijab reinforces this by saying Allah wants you to wear this, his purpose for you is to be an obedient wife. Muslim women who argue otherwise are utterly brainwashed and deluded in their faith. The Quran and Sahih Hadith ( authentic hadith) portray this blatantly. There are authentic hadith which allow the beating of a wife with a stick no thicker than your finger I think.

The Quran literally cannot be interpreted without the Sahih hadith. Without the Sahih hadith most of the rituals, prayers in islam would not exist. They are integral to Islam. So when I hear muslims reply and say they believe in only the Quran they are lying. They could not pray with only the Quran , the instructions for the Namaz/Salah are from the hadith... 50% of Islam is the Quran the other 50% is the Sahih Hadiths. 





 

Thank you for answering me. 

While reading about your religious path, it seems to me that you and I are the same in the regard of being spiritual and seeing a higher power, but not tying ourselves to a particular well known religion. If I am wrong in observing that, please correct me. 

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29 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

Provocateur, you say?  You should take notes.  Your own attempt was far too ham-handed to be effective provocation.

I wasn't trying to provoke I made a genuine inquiry. You are quick to get salty so I asked why.

29 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

If you wish to believe that he is (probably) more concerned with human rights, you go right ahead

I don't need to believe it, he expresses this quite often. Just because he isn't a feminist and makes what you consider offensive jokes doesn't mean he is against human rights lolllllllllll you must really fricking hate comedy. No Dave chappelles, Russel Peters, etc for you. All of em making racist, sexist jokes and all. Must be so fun to hang out with irl :P 

 

29 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

I will consider what sort of people typically say the thing she did in the context that he did, and form my own conclusion.

Linda is a wahabist operative. You can choose to support her if you like that just means you support anti women theology and wahabism.

Edited by AdealJustice
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16 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

And that you did, and I thank you. Don't be sorry, I found your post very enlightening. :)  :yes: 

I salute you, Sweetcheeks. 

I really appreciate your thoughts. I have read over your post and could quote and respond to every thing but that would make for a lot of reading for both of us. Ultimately I think we are on the same page and through our conversation have proven that this subject can be tackled without malice or hate but with an open minded conversation.  I think I have gained a friend out of this. Your family sounds lovely and I wish you all the best.
 

 

14 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Thank you for answering me. 

While reading about your religious path, it seems to me that you and I are the same in the regard of being spiritual and seeing a higher power, but not tying ourselves to a particular well known religion. If I am wrong in observing that, please correct me. 

you are 110% correct. I can't take a religious path but a spiritual one , sure. mind if I asked which branch of the New Age Religions did you believe in for a while?

This has been a very fruitful exchange. thank-you

 

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On 1/26/2017 at 1:15 PM, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Yes, that's true, but I do believe Madonna freed the perceptions of women and how they are perceived in a healthy manner. I thank her for slow erosion of the 'double standard' that seemed to separate the differences of men and women and their obligations of their gender and their behavior. Today, it seems it is natural to have the same sexual desires as a woman, the same as a man, not perceived as a ****. I feel she freed women from the frustrations of a particular gender identity that was frustrating and imprisoning at the same time. Both men and women fart, smell, burp, but if women let go in the past, they were freaks. Today, they are human, just as much as men. I still think we have a long way to go, but I think Madonna proved that we can be just as human as men and not get the ramifications that we received in the past. 

You want to talk about what is unhealthy? The idea you were not allowed to enjoy sex, or instigate it with your partner, and feel that breaking out of the perceived notion that the only thing women were good for were to marry, bear children, and clean house, can be very unhealthy when women, just as men, can be anything they put their minds to. 

This whole march, and yes as others have said happened the whole world over, was to show that issues that held back women, ( and other groups) are still evident today. I'm sorry, it still p***ES ME OFF that women are not paid as much as men. We do the same job. I don't want to hear about the fact of time off for pregnancy. And I like to see a man go through pregnancy and think it's a piece a cake. 

Domestic violence is still an issue, and still more suffer from it. And like one particular female senator said at the march, the women's issues are the issues of men. The issues of foreign policy, domestic policy, education, economics, and women should be taken seriously when they feel it's their business too. 

What's going on with women still in this world today, I feel is UNHEALTHY!

And besides, sexual activities outlook varies from point of view to point of view. 

Rape, on the other hand, I think is unhealthy. Marital rape was something that wasn't a concern for most of the populace years ago. There are still arranged (and underage) marriages in the world, (here in the U.S.) 

Yeah, I see the differences between unhealthy perversion and healthy natural affection. I see it quite clearly. 

I don't think Trump will do all the things some are saying, but his words, whether to be seriously or not, still is something that should discouraged from any character. His ideals, now the ideals of the President of the United States, have been known, and it's is very concerning. 

I thank Madonna for opening the door for me to be comfortable in being human and not some unattainable china doll. 

Thank God you people did not win this election ! Thank God.

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19 hours ago, AdealJustice said:

I wasn't trying to provoke I made a genuine inquiry. You are quick to get salty so I asked why.

And you are quick with accusations, but I'll let others come to their own decisions on that.

Quote

I don't need to believe it, he expresses this quite often. Just because he isn't a feminist and makes what you consider offensive jokes doesn't mean he is against human rights lolllllllllll you must really fricking hate comedy. No Dave chappelles, Russel Peters, etc for you. All of em making racist, sexist jokes and all. Must be so fun to hang out with irl :P 

Are you familiar with projection?  For instance, referring to someone as "salty", while actually engaging in salty behavior yourself?

Quote

Linda is a wahabist operative. You can choose to support her if you like that just means you support anti women theology and wahabism.

Accusations aplenty, but now they graduate from "saltiness" to "supporting wahabism".

None of this offends your sense of rationality, I take it?  Your behavior here, perfectly acceptable, you would have no problem if someone else treated you like this?

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On 1/27/2017 at 2:36 PM, AdealJustice said:

I really appreciate your thoughts. I have read over your post and could quote and respond to every thing but that would make for a lot of reading for both of us. Ultimately I think we are on the same page and through our conversation have proven that this subject can be tackled without malice or hate but with an open minded conversation.  I think I have gained a friend out of this. Your family sounds lovely and I wish you all the best.
 

Ahhhh, thank you. :) Yes, I think we are on the same page. I like to think I can learn as much as I can impart. Well, hopefully I can impart. :blush: 

Quote

you are 110% correct. I can't take a religious path but a spiritual one , sure. mind if I asked which branch of the New Age Religions did you believe in for a while?

This has been a very fruitful exchange. thank-you

Well, with the New Age religion, it's pretty much a bit here and there. The thing, I'm not totally proper New Age as well. I have often called myself a Bohemian New Ager, ( I have a memory of a friend and past co-worker doubled over in laughter as I exclaimed my particular religion. :D ) Most of the time, I tend to not want or feel my inner spirituality tells me not to depend too much on material things of various religious nature, even New Age literature and such, ( but I tend to dabble here and there, and though I have had Tarot decks in the past, I broke down and bought myself the Mythical Cats Tarot deck and book. ) If this makes sense, I tend to let my inner voice, inner spirit, and such guide me. I hope this makes sense. :) 

I think you would like the "Spiritual and Speculations" and the " Spiritual, Religion, and Beliefs" part of this board. 

I have a feeling you may have a great deal of things to impart. :yes: 

You welcome, and thank you too. :) 

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On 1/27/2017 at 2:45 PM, Ellapennella said:

Thank God you people did not win this election ! Thank God.

You people!!! That is what I am afraid of, this divisive group of our side, your side, that I think will make the bigger problem. 

I would hope, you would have more to say to the points and thoughts I made. How do you feel about the double standard? I'm profoundly curious. 

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On 1/27/2017 at 2:49 PM, Ellapennella said:

A women's  march for women, they did nothing to better women, or American families.

Where do you see that? Do have some sources to show what you mean by this? Are you talking about this recent women's march? Or do you mean, all women's marches? If it's the latter, didn't such women's protests help gain women the vote? Did that then help women choose who was the best to help better women and families? 

And why is it women and families in the same connection? Don't men be concern about families as well? 

I would be interested in some sources and links to see what you mean in this post. 

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On 1/27/2017 at 3:01 PM, Sweetpumper said:

 

 

LMAO! You sure?

Ok, ok, I down played that. But a lot of the time, I'm putting things in my opinion, just so not make statements that I might need to back up. Granted I posted a linked to it, but I'm still doing it in a opinion style point of view. 

I could put it as something very horrible, but I was playing around with words at the moment. 

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3 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

You people!!! That is what I am afraid of, this divisive group of our side, your side, that I think will make the bigger problem. 

Hey, the left has....well, the left.  The right has Ellapannella.  I think things have a kharmic balance at this time.

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On 1/22/2017 at 0:50 AM, acidhead said:

The world is angry, and rightfully so, but these rich elitist b******* that have controlled the U.S. for decades now, have, as Trump correctly stated, "reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the costs".

Maybe that is why people are protesting and rightly or wrongly, they see president Trump as a member and a tool of those same elitists.  He may be a changed man, but up to this point, he has been a self-interested con.  Being a middle aged, tall, well spoken white male, I am aware of my privilege.  I get many chances; some not based on my worth but on  my social class and appearance.  Some people believe Mr. Trump will carry that system onward. It is understandable that women and minorities are sick of that and wish that worth and merit would come to the forefront of  society.  Instead of disparaging them, perhaps you would gain something by considering in what causes they might be your allies. The Scots have been thinking about this for several hundred years. Here is something that  Robert Burns said that applies as well today. 

Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord, 
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that; 
Tho' hundreds worship at his word, 
He's but a coof for a' that: 
For a' that, an' a' that, 
His ribband, star, an' a' that: 
The man o' independent mind 
He looks an' laughs at a' that. 

A prince can mak a belted knight, 
A marquis, duke, an' a' that; 
But an honest man's abon his might, 
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that! 
For a' that, an' a' that, 
Their dignities an' a' that; 
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth, 
Are higher rank than a' that. 

Then let us pray that come it may, 
(As come it will for a' that,) 
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth, 
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that. 
For a' that, an' a' that, 
It's coming yet for a' that, 
That Man to Man, the world o'er, 
Shall brothers be for a' that.

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