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Clairvoyants


docyabut2

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3 hours ago, eight bits said:

The question of free will is properly undecidable, since if we didn't have it, then whatever we think about it, we would be destined to think that, whatever we do think. If you think about that long enough, then you will get an ice cream headache, and so you will stop thinking about it.

Free will is one of the many ideas plagued by the defect of self-reference. We cannot penetrate the contradiction, we can only soldier on as best we can. Fortunately, we can get along very well in the world not knowing whether or not we "really" have "free will."

There is another current thread over on the sheltered workshop religion board here at UM about Godel. His great contribution to mathematics was to find a self-reference in something mathematics cannot get along at all without (the idea of a "function"). It's not encouraging that he went insane and killed himself.

Wow, I think that's right. I'm seeing it thinking about it in the same way of considering paradoxes brought on by timetravel and it's manipulations of the past. I often am reminded of a scene in Star Trek: Voyager where the crew went into the past, and Captain Janeway said something about it all giving her a headache thinking about it. 

Quote

Stubbs

That's like being told that Wikipedia disagrees with you. Deal on; you must be on the right track.

You see, that is what I always thought. Or I wouldn't have bought my latest deck. Well, I bought it for that and that being a cat lover, I bought the Mystical cat deck. ;) 

I guess, sometimes, different point of views of something is very curative. :D 

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6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I think Jimmy may be "sleeping with the fishes" too.

Well, if that is the case, the fishes are well fed by now. ;)    :P 

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11 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

This makes me cringe.  You and your daughters are vulnerable, and to a good cold-reader (with perhaps some 'warm' or 'hot' reading now thrown in as she gets to know you all) you would be easy prey.

If it was me, I'd be surreptitiously recording the sessions and bringing them back here so we can point out all the techniques.  But at the very least, learn about the tricks that 'readers' use.  This guy is a little religious, but don't hold that against him as he covers the topic very well in these 2 blog posts:

https://thebryandrakeshow.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/exposing-mediums-and-psychics/

https://thebryandrakeshow.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/exposing-psychics-and-mediums-hot-reading/

The readings were a 100$ going to a show and 80$ for a private  reading, and all the readings were recorded and given to my daughters.  So not really  bad, but as a old coot think that kind of money is big time :) She also said my husband said,  I will live to be so really old and  I`ll wonder why I`m still alive yet. So that brings me to the question, are our lives all really planned out for us? Or is it something only the dead would  know.

Edited by docyabut2
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4 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

The readings were a 100$ going to a show and 80$ for a private  reading, and all the readings were recorded and given to my daughters.  So not really  bad, but as a old coot think that kind of money is big time :) She also said my husband said,  I will live to be so really old and  I`ll wonder why I`m still alive. So that brings me to the question, are our lives all really planned out for us? Or is it something only the dead would  know.

Yeah I could buy a few groceries with $80 to $100 dollars so in a way it's a big deal. Unless you've got money to throw away. In that case I'll tell you whatever you want to hear, with a cherry on top.

As for our lives being pre-planned. No. I highly doubt that. Our lives are made up of a lot of little (and sometimes big) choices we make. I'm sorry that your husbands passed away, so I honestly think it's best to enjoy the memories that the two of you made together. This also goes for your daughters. I wouldn't pay nor trust anyone who claims to communicate with the dead. And since you're paying for it, I suspect a scam.

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Everytime I hear the question of whether our lives are preordained I always think back to my mate and I at one of friend's funerals, we'd all just turned 16. I asked him what he thought about it and turned and looked at the scene and said, 'that'd make all this a bit sick wouldn't it'. 

I speak to the man almost everyday and have done since we were in infants, but that's the only time I ever remember him saying anything sensible. 

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On 1/28/2017 at 11:35 AM, docyabut2 said:

Doesn't that mean there is no free will and  our lives are  all ready planned out for us,  so why fight it ?

Not very a very palatable notion to most people, but we are a subset of our universe and as such, our constituent parts follow all of its laws and principles. We can make uncoerced decisions, but in reality there seems no more free will than an apple has when falling from a tree. There is the illusion of choice, but illusion it is. Despite strong intuitive feelings to the contrary.

Our journey from beginning to end, every thought and decision we take is dictated by the principle of physics, underneath it all, rather than "planned" (which infers a conscious"planner"). What is there to "fight", we can only go on as we are.

In principle it might be possible to see into the (probable) future. We do it all the time to some extent, and who knows, the brain is a marvellous instrument. It's worth being very sceptical though.

 

Edited by Horta
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I read cards for fun, I don't do it to make money.  I have people who come to me regularly for readings. I never ask them for money, but after a couple of readings they start just giving a bit of cash, which is ok with me.  The way I do it is I have the person shuffle and split the deck and think about what they want to know from the cards without telling me.  I then lay out the spread and go over what each card means in its relative position in the spread.  The people put together its meaning as it relates to their question on their own. Then we discuss it.  Later, they come back all saucer eyed saying how it all panned out as the cards said and want another reading.  Personally, I don't know why, because if it just pans out as the cards say and there is nothing you can do about it, what is the point.  If the future is fixed then there is nothing to be done about it.  But I have found it is kind of like predicting the weather more than a week ahead, chaos rules the river of time.  Sometimes I think I'm their psychologist and my friends really just need someone to talk to about what is going on in their life. The cards are just the conversation starter.  So, I suggest you might pick up some cards with a book and do your own readings with your daughter and open the conversation to work through your grief together.  

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2 hours ago, Grandpa Greenman said:

I read cards for fun, I don't do it to make money.  I have people who come to me regularly for readings. I never ask them for money, but after a couple of readings they start just giving a bit of cash, which is ok with me.  The way I do it is I have the person shuffle and split the deck and think about what they want to know from the cards without telling me.  I then lay out the spread and go over what each card means in its relative position in the spread.  The people put together its meaning as it relates to their question on their own. Then we discuss it.  Later, they come back all saucer eyed saying how it all panned out as the cards said and want another reading.  Personally, I don't know why, because if it just pans out as the cards say and there is nothing you can do about it, what is the point.  If the future is fixed then there is nothing to be done about it.  But I have found it is kind of like predicting the weather more than a week ahead, chaos rules the river of time.  Sometimes I think I'm their psychologist and my friends really just need someone to talk to about what is going on in their life. The cards are just the conversation starter.  So, I suggest you might pick up some cards with a book and do your own readings with your daughter and open the conversation to work through your grief together.  

This is pretty much how it was for me, years ago, when I had the original deck and book. And it went just the same way you explain you do it now. ( and someone else says I'm doing it wrong... :lol: ) Anyways, this is how I read to do it, anyways. The Mystical Cat Tarot is pretty much set up the same way, but there are varying ways of doing it with varying ways of  number of cards set up. Just instead, there are descriptions of the various cats that substitute the characters from the original deck, and how it would play out in your life. Plus, it's more of a suggestion of action to one's self, than a prediction. And anyways, it's all for me alone and that is it at the moment. 

But, I always felt it's more of how one should take the path, than just be shown it. I think it's a great suggestion to buy a deck and the book with it and try it out with one's self and other. I know bookstores have them, and in various forms. ( seriously, the Tarot deck has the same kind of choices like the Monopolies and clue and ect. type things, like "Game of Thrones" Monopoly and "Harry Potter" Clue, but I think one would have to search for a "Game of Thrones" Tarot deck, ;)  Though, I did get my Mystical Cat Tarot deck at a bookstore. 

 

I wanted to add, there is the Tarot deck for Dummies. ef9c81d3-5b61-42ba-88c3-bb64c3aac577_1.7

Seriously, the Dummies books are really great books in my perspective and they tend to get to heart of how to explain it. :) 

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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I have a Faery deck by Anna Franklin and Paul Mason.  Beautiful pictures and the explanations that aren't overly fluffy. I have another deck that is just playing cards the fortunes on the card.  They belonged to my Grandmother's sister.  She used to read with an ordinary poker deck. She would read your fortune for free, then take your money in the poker game.  hehehe...   She was a cool old lady. 

 

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On 2/2/2017 at 5:28 AM, Grandpa Greenman said:

She would read your fortune for free, then take your money in the poker game.  hehehe...   She was a cool old lady. 

I actually did chuckle out loud at this. Lol.

Edited by Horta
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On 28/01/2017 at 11:05 AM, docyabut2 said:

My daughters have been going to a Clairvoyant since my husband died  seeking answers,  I can believe they see the past, the present and the contact of spirits , but  of the future ? Doesn't that mean there is no free will and  our lives are  all ready planned out for us,  so why fight it ?

The future does not yet exist as a discrete entity .  it is dependent upon the free willed choices of human beings(where it is connected to human beings)

Even in nature there is never one, but many, possible outcomes from any singular event on the space time continuum.

Thus if you CHOOSE a certain action you create one future for yourslef.  If oyu chose a different action you actually create a different alternative future which will come into existence INSTEAD of the first option.

.Basically every thing you are now is a consequence of decisions you made in the past, and you could be a totally different person if you had made different choices and acted upon them.  Right now you are in control of your future, in that you will CREATE it by the decisions and actions you are making now. RIGHT NOW there exist for you, and every human, many many possible futures. While things like war and asteroid strikes MIGHT have an impact (pun intended) in almost every minor thing YOU chose and decide which future you are going to have Even in the big things, an intelligent being can chose among options and act in advance to minimise how badly they will be impacted by war etc. .  

There are several ways we can see/predict extrapolate our future. None are perfect but some have a high degree of success.  I planned out my future while still at school, wrote down what i wanted from life and set out to achieve it.   I probably got 95%  plus success in achieving the future i planned for myself over half a century ago

 Life throws a few spanners in the works, (like a major bush fire destroying every thing you own)  but even those can't prevent your overall future from  becoming what you plan for it. 

Edited by Mr Walker
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If  " The future does not yet exist as a discrete entity "  ,   when will the future exist as a 'discrete entity '  ? 

 

:D  

Edited by back to earth
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On 1/27/2017 at 7:35 PM, docyabut2 said:

My daughters have been going to a Clairvoyant since my husband died  seeking answers,  I can believe they see the past, the present and the contact of spirits , but  of the future ? Doesn't that mean there is no free will and  our lives are  all ready planned out for us,  so why fight it ?

No not at all. You can definitely see or sense the future, however, my theory is that due to how the physical plane leaves a sort of stamp on the spiritual plane you can access a potentially infinite amount of information. You're able to subconsciously connect to this data and through that determine the most likely outcome of a particular situation or event. I do believe the future isn't set in stone, it's not already determined. The most likely path isn't always the correct one, because something spontaneous could happen to change that.

That said I wouldn't be so sure what they're saying is true, especially if they have a direct financial interest in making you believe it's true. You have to understand that 99% of people who claim to be psychic are just frauds either looking for attention or your money. It's easy enough to fool people, and unless they're getting almost everything correct without any hints, they're either fake or undisciplined and not worth your time.

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7 hours ago, Zayne Kalis said:

No not at all. You can definitely see or sense the future

If that was even slightly true, then why is there *not* a huge upwelling of predictions when something really bad happens, like a major earthquake/flood/fire/terrorist attack/etc ad infinitum?  Does it not work for big things, only little ones (ie the ones where you can be rather selective about your hits and misses) that are always reported *after* the event...?

Let's face it, twitter and other social media should 'go off'.. but they don't.  Predictions get it right pretty much exactly as they would by random chance, it seems to me...

Quote

You have to understand that 99% of people who claim to be psychic are just frauds either looking for attention or your money.

I'd put it somewhat lower than that, actually, as I think you have forgotten that many psychics genuinely believe they have powers.  That can be because they got lucky a few times times, but also is a simple misunderstanding of their empathy, insight and ability to cold/warm read, none of which require other-worldly powers, and all of which tend to get reinforced by the recipients of the 'psychic' playing along and being selective in ignoring failures and the 'Barnum Effect' - "Oh, yes, that is so true!!  How do you know so much about me?!!"

 

Edited by ChrLzs
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9 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

If that was even slightly true, then why is there *not* a huge upwelling of predictions when something really bad happens, like a major earthquake/flood/fire/terrorist attack/etc ad infinitum?  Does it not work for big things, only little ones (ie the ones where you can be rather selective about your hits and misses) that are always reported *after* the event...?

Let's face it, twitter and other social media should 'go off'.. but they don't.  Predictions get it right pretty much exactly as they would by random chance, it seems to me...

Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will happen every single time. So the reason every single psychic in the world doesn't start freaking out before every major disaster, is simply because it doesn't work that way... In most cases it only happens subconsciously when a person is going to be in immediate danger, at least from what I've seen. I don't know if you can actively do it, some people claim they can, but I haven't been able to figure it out and haven't seen substantial evidence of anyone doing so. I would assume it'd be no different for major disasters, don't really see the difference. Usually it's not a long time in advance though, the longest I've seen is the previous day. In most cases it's minutes or even seconds before. I don't know why, I guess it's because that's when your brain wants you to take action to avoid harm. It would be interesting to look online after major disasters to see if anyone mentioned it before it happened, I'll have to keep that in mind... if they did, even if hundreds of people did, it'd just fade into the background and get ignored. I don't think there's enough legitimate psychics on twitter to cause a trend, even if every single one of them had a bad feeling about it (which in itself is illogical, it's unlikely any of them would be in personal danger, and if they were I doubt the first thing they'd do is get on twitter). But really, who's going to believe a bunch of supposed nut jobs? There's people rambling about the end of the world every day. So I think your assumption that it would hypothetically blow up on social media is false.

 

21 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

I'd put it somewhat lower than that, actually, as I think you have forgotten that many psychics genuinely believe they have powers.  That can be because they got lucky a few times times, but also is a simple misunderstanding of their empathy, insight and ability to cold/warm read, none of which require other-worldly powers, and all of which tend to get reinforced by the recipients of the 'psychic' playing along and being selective in ignoring failures and the 'Barnum Effect' - "Oh, yes, that is so true!!  How do you know so much about me?!!"

Yeah you're right about that, most people in the "psychic community" are either frauds, role-players, trolls, or crazy people. And you can bet it's pretty damn annoying. A large portion are also just people who believe and practice but can't do anything significant. Some people convince themselves they can do something when they really can't. Even I did that when I was younger. For instance I thought I could move fire, well... turns out flames flicker on their own. Imagine that. Paper wheels can move from the heat from your hands or static electricity. Heat can be "generated" in your hands by blood rushing to the area. You can get lucky with guesses. The wind can change direction on its own. Generalizations are easy to relate to. You get the idea. People like to take results and run with it, rather than do extensive tests to see if they can replicate it 100% of the time. People loooove to feel special. So yeah the overwhelming majority are completely full of ****, unfortunately... heck chances are even I'm full of **** (statistically speaking of course).

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4 hours ago, Zayne Kalis said:

Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will happen every single time. So the reason every single psychic in the world doesn't start freaking out before every major disaster, is simply because it doesn't work that way... In most cases it only happens subconsciously when a person is going to be in immediate danger, at least from what I've seen. I don't know if you can actively do it, some people claim they can, but I haven't been able to figure it out and haven't seen substantial evidence of anyone doing so. I would assume it'd be no different for major disasters, don't really see the difference. Usually it's not a long time in advance though, the longest I've seen is the previous day. In most cases it's minutes or even seconds before. I don't know why, I guess it's because that's when your brain wants you to take action to avoid harm. It would be interesting to look online after major disasters to see if anyone mentioned it before it happened, I'll have to keep that in mind... if they did, even if hundreds of people did, it'd just fade into the background and get ignored. I don't think there's enough legitimate psychics on twitter to cause a trend, even if every single one of them had a bad feeling about it (which in itself is illogical, it's unlikely any of them would be in personal danger, and if they were I doubt the first thing they'd do is get on twitter). But really, who's going to believe a bunch of supposed nut jobs? There's people rambling about the end of the world every day. So I think your assumption that it would hypothetically blow up on social media is false.

 

Yeah you're right about that, most people in the "psychic community" are either frauds, role-players, trolls, or crazy people. And you can bet it's pretty damn annoying. A large portion are also just people who believe and practice but can't do anything significant. Some people convince themselves they can do something when they really can't. Even I did that when I was younger. For instance I thought I could move fire, well... turns out flames flicker on their own. Imagine that. Paper wheels can move from the heat from your hands or static electricity. Heat can be "generated" in your hands by blood rushing to the area. You can get lucky with guesses. The wind can change direction on its own. Generalizations are easy to relate to. You get the idea. People like to take results and run with it, rather than do extensive tests to see if they can replicate it 100% of the time. People loooove to feel special. So yeah the overwhelming majority are completely full of ****, unfortunately... heck chances are even I'm full of **** (statistically speaking of course).

I don't know guys but this  psychic knew so much about my husband `s life, things that no one out side of  the family would`nt know   

Edited by docyabut2
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Not saying that clairvoyance is valid, or that the following necessarily has any practical relevance (such as being able to genuinely see the future), but this simple vid explains time in a very interesting way (Einstein's relativity). In one sense, I can see how time doesn't exist at all (although it must). Are our ideas of past, present and future an illusion?

 

 

Full episode.

 

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An interesting implication of the above is this...if the future already exists, how is it not predetermined (as far as we are concerned)? This would mean that there is no human free will in any libertine or religious sense, we are a result of the principles of physics, and all processes (including mental) are driven by this, rather than anything we have any control over (it's all an illusion). Einstein actually believed in this form of determinism.

Some say that genuine randomness at the quantum level, makes such determinism invalid. While true, this does nothing for human free will, other than make it impossible (something random can never be willed) and if the future already exists, how is genuine randomness possible (though it seems that it is)?

Sorry for the derail, might be worth starting a thread on it.

 

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7 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I don't know guys but this  psychic knew so much about my husband `s life, things that no one out side of  the family would`nt know   

Well, I'm not saying they are fake, I mean of course there's legitimate psychics, it's just that most of the people who claim to be aren't. You have to understand there's professional scammers that specialize in tricking you to believing what they say. They'll ask a hundred questions and tell you ten facts. They'll slowly talk about things and watch for your reaction, reading your body language and facial expressions, and change things accordingly, "Oh it's this... wait, no, I'm getting this... or this... yes, that's it... it's like this... sorry, this..." etc.

Which, it is extremely complicating, your subconscious wants to come up with logical answers, so you have to stop that, stop thinking, yet still think at the same time as you find the answer... so it can be unreliable for most. I can't do this particular thing myself, not consciously anyway, sometimes when I'm trying to find the answer to something the answer will come to me "magically", but I can't control it yet... however if someone is charging money for it and claiming to be a professional at it, they should, you know, be a professional at it. They should be telling you things straight out, no questions, no hesitation, and they should be right nine times out of ten. No exceptions. If that's not the case, then you're either getting scammed, or paying them to be their test subjects to help them improve their own capabilities.

Have you actually been there personally? Or do you at least the details about how they went about telling them the information? Did they mention specifically how they're getting all of these details? (communicating with your husband, looking into the past, reading their memories, etc.)

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On 2/14/2017 at 1:02 PM, docyabut2 said:

I don't know guys but this  psychic knew so much about my husband `s life, things that no one out side of  the family would`nt know   

It is their job to be able to do that, if they were unable to find convincing aspects, lets face it they would not be in business. 

I can understand you wanting to know more, to not let go, when my father passed I took it pretty hard and followed the path you are, I just had to be honest with myself, and could see this was not helping, it was only extending my grief, hobbling me from moving on with life, which is one thing my father would not have wanted. I doubt your husband would either. 

 Although you have not yet, I do hope you consider the good advice given to you in this thread. You seem stubbornly keen to convince yourself that this is the real deal, and as such, only you can make sense of this sad situation. 

Good luck on your journey. Hope you do not support one of the parasites of society for too much longer. 

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On 2/1/2017 at 7:28 AM, Grandpa Greenman said:

I read cards for fun, I don't do it to make money.  I have people who come to me regularly for readings. I never ask them for money, but after a couple of readings they start just giving a bit of cash, which is ok with me.  The way I do it is I have the person shuffle and split the deck and think about what they want to know from the cards without telling me.  I then lay out the spread and go over what each card means in its relative position in the spread.  The people put together its meaning as it relates to their question on their own. Then we discuss it.  Later, they come back all saucer eyed saying how it all panned out as the cards said and want another reading.  Personally, I don't know why, because if it just pans out as the cards say and there is nothing you can do about it, what is the point.  If the future is fixed then there is nothing to be done about it.  But I have found it is kind of like predicting the weather more than a week ahead, chaos rules the river of time.  Sometimes I think I'm their psychologist and my friends really just need someone to talk to about what is going on in their life. The cards are just the conversation starter.  So, I suggest you might pick up some cards with a book and do your own readings with your daughter and open the conversation to work through your grief together.  

I have Norbert Losche Cosmic Tarot, my grandma taught me to read the cards. It is like Psychology and it was useful to me when I was a youngster to become more introspective and self aware, and honor my own intuition. I love the way you say it can be a bridge to help others look within, give them someone to talk to. I don't for a second think I can read my future, because life has a way of doing its own thing often shaking things up. 

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On 06/02/2017 at 9:13 AM, back to earth said:

If  " The future does not yet exist as a discrete entity "  ,   when will the future exist as a 'discrete entity '  ? 

 

:D  

When it becomes the present. 

Then it will become the immutably fixed past.

However in the present instant, a self aware human being can use past knowledge, and abilty to predict consequences,  to choose and act in  a way which will shape their future into a shape or form which they desire. I can construct a future and indeed an entire lifetime of driving  in which i never ever get a speeding ticket, by always, in the present, staying under the speed limit. Same for drink driving or any illegal activity.  You can shape your whole  life from childhood by planning your future and acting always, in your present, to fulfil that plan.   So, in a sense, you can change your past, but you have to do it by planning your future, and always acting on  that plan in the present moment, so that your past becomes what you planned it to be.

 When i look back on my sixty five years of living,  well over 95% of it went as I planned it to,  when i was a young child and adolescent.  For example was a teacher all my life (planned from the age of 9 ) Married to  the girl of my teenage fantasies  and have had a happy faithful and successful marriage  (as planned basically when i became aware of the nature of sex and marriage ) Live where i wanted to live as a child (close to my family and parents in the sort of community where you can leave your doors open and your cars unlocked)

I am financially independent and enjoying retirement because since starting work i planned for this and put aside superannuation investments. 

 I have never had any serious  encounter with the law (A couple of minor  speeding tickets in 50 years of driving) .  ( I decided i was always going to be honest and law abiding while still at primary school ).  I have never hit a person in anger nor abused anyone verbally or physically. (decided when i was at primary school )   I have also done all the things i planned to do as a child and teenager, and added many which did not exist then.

Where nature intervened ( I wanted kids but we couldn't have our own)  we fostered and raised children who were abandoned neglected or abused. When  a bushfire destroyed our dream home of 20 years and everything we owned we just rode it out and started again.  We had planned and prepared for this eventuality although we  hoped it would not occur, and were fully insured, for example.

Outside forces may intervene, but you can achieve an extremely high reliability of living the life you chose for yourself, from the time you are able to make decisions for your self and act on them, until you die.

For example, if i was younger i would be thinking about, and planning options for, a major war between china and the USA.  When it eventually  came, I would be elsewhere, in a country less likely to be affected. Given my age it is not a high priority.  It is not that this war is inevitable, but it is highly probable, and should at least be considered in planning a future, with a range of options planned/considered, and contingencies made, ready to implement if it becomes more likely.     

Edited by Mr Walker
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10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

When it becomes the present. 

Ha ... that was the obvious answer, My question was more to the point of ..... why should the present be described as a 

' discrete entity ' ?    am questioning your use of that term to describe a 'time concept '  ... but of course, you didnt get that, did you ? You were too busy looking for a line to go on about  yourself  telling the same  stories  we have read over and over and over and over and .....  :rolleyes:   ....    just like the following ; 

10 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

....

 When i look back on my sixty five years of living,  well over 95% of it went as I planned it to,  when i was a young child and adolescent.  For example was a teacher all my life (planned from the age of 9 ) Married to  the girl of my teenage fantasies  and have had a happy faithful and successful marriage  (as planned basically when i became aware of the nature of sex and marriage ) Live where i wanted to live as a child (close to my family and parents in the sort of community where you can leave your doors open and your cars unlocked)

I am financially independent and enjoying retirement because since starting work i planned for this and put aside superannuation investments. 

 I have never had any serious  encounter with the law (A couple of minor  speeding tickets in 50 years of driving) .  ( I decided i was always going to be honest and law abiding while still at primary school ).  I have never hit a person in anger nor abused anyone verbally or physically. (decided when i was at primary school )   I have also done all the things i planned to do as a child and teenager, and added many which did not exist then.

Where nature intervened ( I wanted kids but we couldn't have our own)  we fostered and raised children who were abandoned neglected or abused. When  a bushfire destroyed our dream home of 20 years and everything we owned we just rode it out and started again.  We had planned and prepared for this eventuality although we  hoped it would not occur, and were fully insured, for example.

Outside forces may intervene, but you can achieve an extremely high reliability of living the life you chose for yourself, from the time you are able to make decisions for your self and act on them, until you die.

For example, if i was younger i would be thinking about, and planning options for, a major war between china and the USA.  When it eventually  came, I would be elsewhere, in a country less likely to be affected. Given my age it is not a high priority.  It is not that this war is inevitable, but it is highly probable, and should at least be considered in planning a future, with a range of options planned/considered, and contingencies made, ready to implement if it becomes more likely.     

 

 

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18 hours ago, Sherapy said:

I have Norbert Losche Cosmic Tarot, my grandma taught me to read the cards. It is like Psychology and it was useful to me when I was a youngster to become more introspective and self aware, and honor my own intuition. I love the way you say it can be a bridge to help others look within, give them someone to talk to. I don't for a second think I can read my future, because life has a way of doing its own thing often shaking things up. 

Well since we are discussing ( or supposed to be discussing )  clair voyerism ... and now tarot has entered into it :

I find this interesting ;   " to become more introspective and self aware, and honor my own intuition. "

How did you feel tarot did that  ? ( I ask,  as I feel the same thing ... I have read tarot for over  40 years ,at times for the public, although I made it clear I was not claiming to be psychic  or predicting anything .) 

I definitely see it as 'psychological'  and a bridge to look within .   After 40 years of hermetic tarot and other related systems , I can see tarot as very useful tool this way ( and also very interesting how it got to be this way , evolving from a card game ! ). Why it should have done that is central to one of my thesis ; that natural and non artificial systems  can have transferable knowledge and learning to other natural and non artificial systems  eg  - in one small area ; the qabbalistic 4 world theory  and how that inter relates to hermetic elemental theory and the overall fourfold nature and laws in much of nature  ( eg. the 4 forces of physics ) and the 4 suits in tarot and the 4 aspects of human psyche ; spirit, emotive, mental and physical  ... stuff like that . 

For me, the tarot deck has become encoded with vast information of this type. For me, it had become my 'elemental earth'  magical weapon - the 'pentacle that is my body' .....   much as a  'handbook'  I suppose .  Also I am a visually symbolic type of learner so tarot suits me fine, and also symbolism is the language of communication between the conscious and unconscious mind , so its good for that too . 

 

But telling people you can predict their future and then taking money for that ? ........   p f f f t t  ! 

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OBack to Earth, have you heard of the theory that the major Arcana follows the story of the search for the holy grail?

Begining with the fool and his journey. The face cards representing central characters, the ups and downs of the journey, facing your inner devil after recieving the cup, and having everything turned upside down before finding the way of the rightous, and ending in having all things in the World. 

It's a story I once heard and it's quite interesting to put the cards in order against the grail quest.

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