Refugees/Citizens of Muslim Countries Barred

[Clarakore]

13 minutes ago, Michelle said:

If you have children, you'd kinda vet who they dated or wanted to marry too. Not very different than what should be applied to potential, incoming new citizens.

My surrogate family are Arabs, if that helps alleviate your suspicions, by the way. That's a well known fact around here.

Are they Muslims? 

[Yamato]

39 minutes ago, Michelle said:

So we can agree both premises are flawed.

Not only are both premises flawed, both acts (of banning) are downright despicable.   Imagine if Obama banned black plastic guns because they scared liberals more than the old fashioned woodies like I have.

This isn't some dumb article a journalist wrote about the inauguration turnout.  This is a very big deal.  Trump has crossed the line, already.   

That he could cite 9/11 three times and forget Saudi Arabia... almighty Jesus, it's not just stupid.  It's evil and stupid.

As previously pointed out numerous times, he showed just how big a shill he could be at the AIPAC speech, even name dropping "Saudi Arabia" as some kind of worthy beneficiary with regards to US policy towards Israel.

And before you agree with someone who's reminding us about the oil again, I'd read the Executive Order and show me where it says something about oil.   For this EO's own survival in court, just so I wouldn't laugh at it if I was the judge, it should add a statement explaining why Saudi Arabia was left out.   If it's about oil then Trump will need to have the oil balls to admit it.   Then we can get to the important business of whether the Bill of Rights is more important than oily head chopping war criminals.

Heck, Congress needs to write a law that bans Executive Orders.   But of course it won't because it's beta male Republican.    One thing's for sure, beta male Republicans hated E.O.s until after Jan 20th.  

Congress shall make no law.  This doesn't mean that you get to do a magic reach around as President.

[Michelle]

19 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

Are they Muslims? 

No, they are Catholic. Both religions are foreign to me, but I love taking part in the culture. I taught one of the younger wives the "traditional Arab wedding dance" haha. They did give me a greater insight into what is going on in the ME, being first and second generation.

I spent many hours with Mama in the kitchen cooking. I loved it.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Michelle

[Clarakore]

2 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I taught one of the younger wives the "traditional Arab wedding dance" haha. 

We want video proof.

[Clarakore]

9 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I spent many hours with Mama in the kitchen cooking. I loved it.

And samplers.

[Yamato]

10 hours ago, Lilly said:

Why is everyone missing the fact that these countries were flagged by the Obama Administration a year ago?

Speaking of over a year ago, I asked myself a similar question after posting the 'Challenging US Foreign Policy' thread:  Why is everyone missing the fact that the Obama Administration's foreign policy was a complete disaster?   

They were still holding out hope that the birth certificate was fake at that point, but still...

Quote

Remember, the general public just isn't privy to everything going on.

What a wonderful way to rationalize it after Trump does...well, anything overseas he wants to.   The general public doesn't know anything about anything about what's going on in the Middle East that's true.   We're sold a bill of goods and we know just what we're meant to know.   That's a good excuse to ask questions and find out more, not go hide in the corner and obey.   Did Obama know something about every Executive Order he signed that his detractors here didn't?   Probably so, and that was never a reason enough to support any of them.   So why start now?     If he's going to have the nerve to write his own laws and take a golden shower on the Constitution like this, he should stand up on a podium and explain his list.

"It's Obama's list."

Oh that is so not good enough.

Americans need an academic seminar every night on why terrorism exists, since the whole of their knowledge seems to come out of the mouths of politicians and media pundits.

[Michelle]

6 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

We want video proof.

It was just us girls and selfies weren't a thing at the time.

 

3 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

And samplers.

Her falafel is unsurpassed.

[Yamato]

39 minutes ago, Michelle said:

It was just us girls and selfies weren't a thing at the time.

 

Her falafel is unsurpassed.

She should have a nice house in Jerusalem and a cookbook.

[bee]

20 minutes ago, Yamato said:

he should stand up on a podium and explain his list.

.

re the list --- Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia -

six of those  were on the list revealed / claimed by General Wesley Clark as the countries the US planned to go to
war with after 9/11 - the one difference... Lebanon isn't on the temporary travel restrictions list ---
but Yemen is -

in my mind the lists are too close to be a coincidence - and as Lilly said the public isn't privy to a lot of stuff -

So is the list originally the Bush Administration's list - then it became the Obama Administration's list -
regarding open and covert war - ? Then Trump comes along and decides to try and mop up problems
coming from the activities of the previous two administrations in these countries on the list - because there
are some pretty psst off people in the 'list' countries who would retaliate if they has half a chance - and maybe
have made concerted efforts to enter the US and attack...?

then Trump comes along - and puts in the temporary travel ban on the List Countries before more stringent
vetting is introduced - all hell breaks loose and people protest ---
mobilized by the Mind Control Media, Face Book and Twitter etc -- 

so who's behind the mobilization?  

 

   

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by bee
added a bit

[Yamato]

5 minutes ago, bee said:

.

re the list --- Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia -

six of those  were on the list revealed / claimed by General Wesley Clark as the countries the US planned to go to
war with after 9/11 - the one difference... Lebanon isn't on the temporary travel restrictions list ---
but Yemen is -

in my mind the lists are too close to be a coincidence - and as Lilly said the public isn't privy to a lot of stuff -

So is the list originally the Bush Administration's list - then it became the Obama Administration's list -
regarding open and covert war - ? Then Trump comes along and decides to try and mop up problems
coming from the activities of the previous two administrations in these countries on the list - because there
are some pretty psst off people in the 'list' countries who would retaliate if they has half a chance - and maybe
have made concerted efforts to enter the US and attack...?

when Trump along - and puts in the temporary travel ban on the List Countries all hell breaks loose and
people protest --- mobilized by the Mind Control Media, Face Book and Twitter etc -- 

 

   

 

That's a possible connection to the list, not an explanation for the list.

Does the US govt want to go mess around with regime change after regime change and war after war in the Middle East?  That cat's been out of the bag for almost 13 years.  Wesley Clark doesn't get anywhere near the credit he deserves for coming out with it.   Big kudos to him.   But at this point, how could anyone not see right before their eyes we're into regime changing in the Middle East?   One would have to be blind, deaf, dumb, religious, I don't know what to not know what we're doing.   "Assad Must Go".    Well that settles that then. 

At least Trump isn't changing regimes, yet.  So it's not worse than it is, it's not better than it is, it is what it is.  What he is doing is discriminating, on very shaky ground.   I won't accept a Muslim American having to suffer over this discrimination.   I dated a Muslim for almost three years and she's now a professor at a US university and I can only imagine how she feels about this, that her family can't come here if something were to happen to her, or for what-ever other damned reason she wants them to visit.

The courts should slap this nonsense down and I think they will.

I see Trump looking at Bush and thinking to himself:  How dumb you are.   Wait until I get my hands in the Middle East, I'm going to show you how it's done.

But we won't be changing regimes in Syria or Iran.    Putin ended that wet neocon fantasy on a shoestring by attacking and actually defeating ISIS on the battlefield in Syria.   Now unless Trump is backroom dealing Putin into incredible wealth and power, I don't see that changing.

How did your press describe it?   The "Ship of Shame", "skulking" back across the English Channel.  I read.   Blah blah untold loss of innocent human life, blah blah prolonging the terrible violence in Syria, blah blah and they didn't even need an aircraft carrier anyway, they've got plenty of land bases to fly their aircraft from lol.  

[Yamato]

"There's always been this attitude that we can use force and intervene in the region." ~ Wesley Clark

We had a National Security Advisor from Chevron now we've got a Secretary of State from Exxon.    What's to stop another administration from their oily conflicts of interest?

Don't worry though Rex just got his $180 million retirement package so he'll be a totally objective leader for the American people now and will be instrumental in getting the oil that all Americans need.

[bee]

Just now, Yamato said:

 

At least Trump isn't changing regimes, yet.  So it's not worse than it is, it's not better than it is, it is what it is.  What he is doing is discriminating, on very shaky ground.   I won't accept a Muslim American having to suffer over this discrimination.   I dated a Muslim for almost three years and she's now a professor at a US university and I can only imagine how she feels about this, that her family can't come here if something were to happen to her, or for what-ever other damned reason she wants them to visit.

The courts should slap this nonsense down and I think they will.

 

.

re. your ex girlfriend --- and bearing in mind it's a temporary restriction ---

wouldn't she understand that if there was a heightened risk coming from the 7 countries (because of what Wesley Clark revealed)
that Trump's actions are to try to help protect American citizens from possible terrorist attack..

and looking a step deeper - that his actions are protecting American muslim citizens very directly as well because  a few more 
Islamic terrorist attacks on US soil and they could find themselves the victims of serious revenge attacks - 

???

. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by bee
changed a word and added a word

[Yamato]

1 minute ago, bee said:

.

re. your ex girlfriend --- and bearing in mind it's a temporary restriction ---

wouldn't she understand that if there was a heightened risk coming from the 7 countries (because of what Wesley Clark revealed)
that Trump's actions are to try to help protect American citizens from possible terrorist attack..

. 

She actually does understand govt's overreactions better than I do, that preventing that one positive is worth all their efforts.   She won't agree with how it will effect her own family when they've already been here numerous times.  That's insulting and disgusting, it's mindless and frankly, stupid.   She probably didn't mind much about anything before this weekend, but I know this bothers her.
 

Quote

 

and looking a step deeper - that his actions are protecting American muslim citizens very directly as well because  a few more 
Islamic terrorist attacks on US soil and they could find themselves the victims of revenge actions - 

???

 

"Islamic" terrorist attacks?   

It's not "revenge" either when that Muslim victim doesn't have dip on a stick to do with it.

[psyche101]

6 minutes ago, bee said:

.

re. your ex girlfriend --- and bearing in mind it's a temporary restriction ---

wouldn't she understand that if there was a heightened risk coming from the 7 countries (because of what Wesley Clark revealed)
that Trump's actions are to try to help protect American citizens from possible terrorist attack..

Hey Bee  Long time no hear, hope all is great with you.

Isn't Yams ex missus exactly why the policy is a fail? She is a direct example that peaceful people are being lumped with the fundies, of the US Government really did care about that crap, they would never have had the war on terror. Many innocents were hurt there, many simply as retaliation against the US and as shields. Not like it was a secret. 

6 minutes ago, bee said:

and looking a step deeper - that his actions are protecting American muslim citizens very directly as well because  a few more 
Islamic terrorist attacks on US soil and they could find themselves the victims of serious revenge attacks - 

???

. 

Do you honestly not feel that taking a step in this adversarial direction is not going to result in attacks? France took a hardline stance, some of them just ridiculous and stupid like the Burkini ban, and paid a heavy price for it. It would be more than surprising if the US, a more valued target, was not attacked over a policy like this for the very same reasons.

And if the discrimination does result in more people turning to ISIS as the US treats them like that anyway, as I suspect it would, how will those problems not get worse? 

[bee]

Just now, Yamato said:

She actually does understand govt's overreactions better than I do, that preventing that one positive is worth all their efforts.   She won't agree with how it will effect her own family when they've already been here numerous times.  That's insulting and disgusting, it's mindless and frankly, stupid.   She probably didn't mind much about anything before this weekend, but I know this bothers her.
 

"Islamic" terrorist attacks?   

It's not "revenge" either when that Muslim victim doesn't have dip on a stick to do with it.

.

well it sounds like she comes from an educated family with enough money to travel regularly to the US --- ?

Is there really a problem if it's only a few weeks - ? -

And if it is designed to help protect ALL US citizens..?

You know very well that following a Jihad inspired Islamic terrorist attack muslims will be targeted and mosques attacked -

Of course the Jihad terrorists can get in from any country - there is probably no shortage of potential volunteers just
16 miles up the road from me in Birmingham --- but for some reason the countries on the list are deemed a greater risk at the
moment --- but we don't know why because it must be classified info...

.

 

[bee]

11 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Hey Bee  Long time no hear, hope all is great with you.

Isn't Yams ex missus exactly why the policy is a fail? She is a direct example that peaceful people are being lumped with the fundies, of the US Government really did care about that crap, they would never have had the war on terror. Many innocents were hurt there, many simply as retaliation against the US and as shields. Not like it was a secret. 

hey you --- 

it wasn't Trump's war on terror though - he has come in when the damage has been done - the scene set - 

The militant Islamic Jihad is a reality and surely muslims who have got absolutely nothing to do with it
can understand why the actions of the Jihadists impact on them rightly or wrongly -- 

It's like if a Westerner might say --- oh I can understand why they want to kill us because of what we did to their country..
(ie foreign policy)

Can't muslims think a bit the same --- oh I can understand why our religion has got a bad name after the terrorist attacks -

Not sure if I'm explaining that very well - but it is early here ---

 

Quote

Do you honestly not feel that taking a step in this adversarial direction is not going to result in attacks? France took a hardline stance, some of them just ridiculous and stupid like the Burkini ban, and paid a heavy price for it. It would be more than surprising if the US, a more valued target, was not attacked over a policy like this for the very same reasons.

And if the discrimination does result in more people turning to ISIS as the US treats them like that anyway, as I suspect it would, how will those problems not get worse? 

.

I'm sure Trump will get the blame for the next terrorist attack ---

whether it is deserved or not --- ?

edit to add --- when it comes to trying to get to grips with the Militant Islamic Jihad and the real
threats it poses  - our politicians are damned if they do and damned if they don't -

It's a mess -

.

 

.

Edited January 30, 2017 by bee

[Frank Merton]

Trump could have approached the issue trying to cool it.  Instead he has turned the heat way up.  It is almost like he wants something like 911 to happen as an excuse for further grabbing of power.  At any rate he has made Americans a good deal less safe.

[bee]

Just now, Frank Merton said:

Trump could have approached the issue trying to cool it.  Instead he has turned the heat way up.  It is almost like he wants something like 911 to happen as an excuse for further grabbing of power.  At any rate he has made Americans a good deal less safe.

.

and the near hysterical reactions of the  MSM and mobilized protesters - deliberately stirring up trouble
and metaphorically pouring petrol over an already difficult situation - is making everything less safe as well -

and those who are stoking it all up in the background are probably very satisfied with their ''''work'''' -

divide and rule - still works a treat -- *slow hand clap* ....

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by bee
added a bit

[psyche101]

8 minutes ago, bee said:

hey you --- 

it wasn't Trump's war on terror though - he has come in when the damage has been done - the scene set - 

The militant Islamic Jihad is a reality and surely muslims who have got absolutely nothing to do with it
can understand why the actions of the Jihadists impact on them rightly or wrongly -- 

It's like if a Westerner might say --- oh I can understand why they want to kill us because of what we did to their country..
(ie foreign policy)

Can't muslims think a bit the same --- oh I can understand why our religion has got a bad name after the terrorist attacks -

Not sure if I'm explaining that very well - but it is early here ---

In that case - Good Morning!!

LOL, I really should know that shouldn't I?

I think you said it right there, the people are not saying "oh Well, I Understand" they are saying "Refuse them all entry". They do want to kill us because of religion, that was the Ayatollahs excuse to prosecute the Shah - he felt Allah's holy ground was being defiled. But the fundies are not the problem, nobody wants them, their own country or the US, yet the US Government went to war with them, which is not so much as I understand it an individual call, but more a conference call. The good people are the problem as they are now victims from both sides. 

It's the American War on Terror, not Bush's not Obamas, not Trumps, no matter which president has been in power, little has changed. Trump just seems to be threatening to make everything worse for everyone except those whose opinions are are lumping all people from a country as fundamental. Yams ex is a perfect example that the stereotype is not accurate. I understand fear of fundamentalism, and I deem it a valid concern, but this seems to be a great way of making more of them. 

8 minutes ago, bee said:

.

I'm sure Trump will get the blame for the next terrorist attack ---

whether it is deserved or not --- ?

.

Isn't that the American Way? What President hasn't been blamed for anything and everything? All the years I have been on this board, everything is the current President's Fault. But Trump tells the people what they want to hear, so the fallout will likely be minimal. 

[bee]

Just now, psyche101 said:

In that case - Good Morning!!

LOL, I really should know that shouldn't I?

.

yes --- 

ta for reply - time for breakfast now 

.

[psyche101]

17 minutes ago, bee said:

.

yes --- 

ta for reply - time for breakfast now 

.

Hope it is awesome!! Enjoy!!!

[Farmer77]

14 hours ago, Yamato said:

If Nustin keeps that up, Canada will be added to the list of No Entry Countries.

6 dead, 2 arrested after shooting at Quebec City mosque 

Probably coincidence. 

[+Hammerclaw]

Trump is finding out the hard way, executive orders aren't tweets. If he wants to rule by royal decree as Obama did, he'll have to invite a lot more input and put a lot more thought and deliberation into it. He's served himself up a bodacious slice of humble pie, stuffed with crow, which he'll have to eat himself, or designate a scapegoat to do it for him.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[Lilly]

6 hours ago, Yamato said:

 

What a wonderful way to rationalize it after Trump does...well, anything overseas he wants to.   The general public doesn't know anything about anything about what's going on in the Middle East that's true.  

I'm not rationalizing anything, I'm just aware that I don't know everything. The fact that the 7 countries were the very same ones the previous Administration flagged must mean something. Certainly it can't just be coincidence.

As for politicians and what they do, seems to me Trump is getting a bunch of heat because he's not acting like a typical politician. Trump said he was going to do just this...and then he did it. Now, this may be absolutely the wrong thing to do, the biggest screw up in all history, the prelude to the freaking Apocalypse for all I know...but Trump said he was going to do it if elected. So much for politicians who don't keep their campaign promises.

Good, Bad or The End Of The World...this one is going to play out and no amount of second guessing, protesting, teeth gnashing etc. is going to stop it.

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I'm not rationalizing anything, I'm just aware that I don't know everything. The fact that the 7 countries were the very same ones the previous Administration flagged must mean something. Certainly it can't just be coincidence.

As for politicians and what they do, seems to me Trump is getting a bunch of heat because he's not acting like a typical politician. Trump said he was going to do just this...and then he did it. Now, this may be absolutely the wrong thing to do, the biggest screw up in all history, the prelude to the freaking Apocalypse for all I know...but Trump said he was going to do it if elected. So much for politicians who don't keep their campaign promises.

 

Yet he really is acting like a typical politician by not including nations that ya know, have actually sent us terrorists. Which of course means he isnt actually keeping his campaign promise he's just playing politics 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Farmer77