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Claire.

Refugees/Citizens of Muslim Countries Barred

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Lilly

The problem is that ISIS has quite openly declared that non-Muslims are on the top of their 'hit list'. Doesn't it make sense to realize that the non-Muslim population is then facing greatest risk from ISIS? The west and America aren't the ones basing things on religion. ISIS is the one basing it on religion. And what do they do with their intolerant form of religious bigotry? Hint: It involves cutting off people's heads (even children), burning people alive, various forms of torture and sexual slavery. Perhaps everyone should take a step back from politics and take a look at exactly what type of people (ISIS Jihadists) that we don't want entering into our country.

 

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Lilly
24 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

**Mr Takei's quote Re 911 Hijackers**

That was 16 years ago, the main threat now is from ISIS in Syria and Iraq.

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Clarakore
18 minutes ago, Lilly said:

The problem is that ISIS has quite openly declared that non-Muslims are on the top of their 'hit list'. Doesn't it make sense to realize that the non-Muslim population is then facing greatest risk from ISIS? The west and America aren't the ones basing things on religion. ISIS is the one basing it on religion. And what do they do with their intolerant form of religious bigotry? Hint: It involves cutting off people's heads (even children), burning people alive, various forms of torture and sexual slavery. Perhaps everyone should take a step back from politics and take a look at exactly what type of people (ISIS Jihadists) that we don't want entering into our country.

 

Isn't ISIS attacking Muslims too? Are not the majority of their victims Muslims?

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Lilly
Just now, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

Isn't ISIS attacking Muslims too? Are not the majority of their victims Muslims?

The majority of the population in this area is Muslim (mostly Sunni, some Shia) so most of the victims of the war have been other Muslims. However, the goal of ISIS isn't the genocide of Muslims, but rather that other Muslims capitulate to their Caliphate and their Radicalized form of Islam. Where Christians and Yazidi's are concerned ISIS's goal is simply genocide.

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Clarakore
44 minutes ago, Lilly said:

The problem is that ISIS has quite openly declared that non-Muslims are on the top of their 'hit list'. Doesn't it make sense to realize that the non-Muslim population is then facing greatest risk from ISIS? The west and America aren't the ones basing things on religion. ISIS is the one basing it on religion. And what do they do with their intolerant form of religious bigotry? Hint: It involves cutting off people's heads (even children), burning people alive, various forms of torture and sexual slavery. Perhaps everyone should take a step back from politics and take a look at exactly what type of people (ISIS Jihadists) that we don't want entering into our country.

 

That is a rather simplified view that treats all Muslims the same and ignores the situation on the ground.

Quote

The Islamic State does not follow Al Qaeda’s “far enemy” strategy, preferring instead the “near enemy” strategy, albeit on a regional level.

As such, the primary target of the Islamic State has not been the United States, but rather “apostate” regimes in the Arab world—namely, the Asad regime in Syria and the Abadi regime in Iraq.

Like his predecessors, Baghdadi favors purifying the Islamic community first by attacking Shi’a and other religious minorities as well as rival jihadist groups. The Islamic State’s long list of enemies includes the Iraqi Shi’a, the Lebanese Hizballah, the Yazidis (a Kurdish ethno-religious minority located predominantly in Iraq), and rival opposition groups in Syria (including Jabhat al-Nusra, the official Al Qaeda affiliate in Syria).

https://www.brookings.edu/testimonies/comparing-al-qaeda-and-isis-different-goals-different-targets/

Edited by Avatar Samantha Ai
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Clarakore

To further add.

Quote

New Islamic Caliphate Declares Jihad on … Muslims

The new “caliphate” of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi—the Islamic State, formerly “ISIS”—recently made clear that it means to follow in the footsteps of the original caliphate of Abu Bakr al-Sadiq (632-634), specifically by directing its jihad against fellow Muslims, in Islamic parlance, the “hypocrites” and “apostates,” or in Western terminology, “moderates.”

This came out in the context of the current conflict between Israel and Hamas, with some Muslims asking the newly formed “caliphate” when it would launch a jihad on the Jewish state.

The Islamic State’s response is that “Allah in the noble Koran does not command us to fight Israel or the Jews until we fight the apostates and hypocrites.”

http://raymondibrahim.com/2014/07/17/new-islamic-caliphate-declares-jihad-on-muslims/

Edited by Avatar Samantha Ai
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Lilly

The problem remains that ISIS has also declared that it will send it's Jihadist fighters to the western nations hidden among the migrant population. Other than taking the time and effort to strongly vet those coming from Syria and Iraq how do we keep 'the bad guys' out of our nation?

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Sir Smoke aLot

Selection of countries is funny. Those who are possibly most dangerous aren't on the list, as if Mr. Trump did it just for the sake of it or because he had to do something to stay true to his campaign promises.

Meanwhile, Osama Bin Laden's associates are free to travel..

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spartan max2

I find it ironic that it seems like a lot of the lefts complaints right now is that he didn't ban more countires...

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Clarakore
Quote

Contrary to Trump’s claims, Christians refugees have not faced unfair treatment from the U.S. government compared to Muslims. Roughly the same number of Christian and Muslim refugees have been admitted to the United States each year in recent years, according to data from the State Department. It was only in 2016, the first time in a decade, that the share of Christian refugees dipped slightly below that of Muslims, to 44 percent of overall refugees.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/christians-refugees-trump/514820/

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Lilly
Just now, spartan max2 said:

I find it ironic that it seems like a lot of the lefts complaints right now is that he didn't ban more countires...

Yeah, some of the countries 'unbarred' don't seem all that safe either. I suspect it has more to do with what information they can get from those countries about their citizens who want to immigrate to the United States. But, that's just a guess.

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Clarakore
11 minutes ago, Lilly said:

The problem remains that ISIS has also declared that it will send it's Jihadist fighters to the western nations hidden among the migrant population. Other than taking the time and effort to strongly vet those coming from Syria and Iraq how do we keep 'the bad guys' out of our nation?

Any proof of this would be nice.

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Lilly
5 hours ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

Other sources (that I have posted) indicate otherwise.

Remember, the total number of Christians entering into the US doesn't mean they're all coming from Syria and Iraq.

Edited by Lilly
addition
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GlitterRose

These executive actions have real life consequences, and Trump has not considered the repercussions of implementing them. 

Mr. Darweesh worked as an interpreter for the Army’s 101st Airborne Division in Baghdad and Mosul starting shortly after the invasion of Iraq on April 1, 2003. The filing said he had been directly targeted twice for working with the United States military.

“This not only endangers troops in the future, it endangers troops who are in combat now in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, wherever, “Mr. Friedman said. “If those interpreters and those fixers hear that the United States is not going to protect them, then they don’t have any incentive to work with U.S. troops, and there’s no way that we can operate without their support and assistance.”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj-n4jmg-XRAhWI0YMKHSBYB0IQqUMIJDAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F01%2F28%2Fus%2Frefugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html&usg=AFQjCNF55j2PqWjg2POEhCX8LxuE075tzg

Google has recalled travelling staff members to the US after an executive order from President Donald Trump restricting entry for nationals of seven Muslim-majority countries.

Google has told the BBC it is concerned about the order and any measures which could block great talent from the US.

The new restrictions will have a major impact on technology companies that hire skilled staff from all over the world on special H1-B visas.

There have been reports that "green card" holders, who are legal permanent residents of the US, being prevented from getting on flights. However, green cards are not specifically mentioned in the executive order, and so the status of green card holders remains unclear.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj-n4jmg-XRAhWI0YMKHSBYB0IQqUMIIDAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-us-canada-38781420&usg=AFQjCNHp86rZXrBcz0PDWOA3fYl0zSqtjw

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spartan max2

I have mixed feelings about this policy just like I did during the elections.

I'm suprised he has be following through on all his policies though. 

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Lilly
3 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

Any proof of this would be nice.

 This information has been out there for some time now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

 

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GlitterRose
Just now, spartan max2 said:

I have mixed feelings about this policy just like I did during the elections.

I'm suprised he has be following through on all his policies though. 

Yeah at first the word was take him seriously, but not literally. Now he is literally doing the crazy things he said he was going to do, and people are like...oh...he's a "get things done" president. 

True story. Things are getting done. They're awful things, but they're getting done. 

After all...he who must not be named did great things. Terrible...but great. 

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Clarakore
8 minutes ago, Lilly said:

That link does not back up your claim that, "ISIS has also declared that it will send it's Jihadist fighters to the western nations hidden among the migrant population."

Did you even read it?

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Astra.
3 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

It probably has something to do with it that there is a very small percentage of Christians in these countries. 

Indeed, people who are at greater risk for persecution over several factors, including religion and sexual orientation, are given top priority. They have always been given top priority. That's not something new that Trump made up. He's just the only one who announced to the world that he is particularly favoring Christians over Muslims. That's what's new. 

Yes - just over a year ago the Australian government had announced they were accepting more Christian refugees through a 'special humanitarian program'.

Quote

Australia is ready to expand a special humanitarian program to accept more Christian refugees who are fleeing Islamic State as a crucial safeguard in the effort to take 12,000 asylum-seekers from Syria and Iraq.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/australia-to-take-more-christian-refugees-fleeing-islamic-state/news-story/c6e8bbcb270767a68d4f7c90379a83e3

Ironically - our PM will be talking with Donald Trump in a day or two...to discuss whether the new US administration would be still willing to take some refugees from Manus and Naura Islands that have been waiting in detention centres for some time. Apparently Malcom Turnbull is rather confident that all will go well.

But honestly...I would be very, very surprised if the deal goes ahead. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-26/donald-trump:-turnbull-confident-us-refugee-deal-will-go-ahead/8214948

(sorry about the first link...seems you have to subscribe)..

Edited by Astra.
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Lilly
15 minutes ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

That link does not back up your claim that, "ISIS has also declared that it will send it's Jihadist fighters to the western nations hidden among the migrant population."

Did you even read it?

Of course, the article shows that ISIS has been using psychological threats quite awhile back (why I said the notion has been around for some time now). Now, it remains to be seen how much of their claims is simply 'bluster' and 'sword rattling' verse them actually being able to place some of their operatives in the migrant population. That said, does anyone want to risk their life on it?

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Clarakore
Quote

As President Donald Trump wraps up a week of turning campaign absurdities into nightmarish policies, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg on Friday joined dissenters with a post condemning Trump’s anti-immigrant actions.

“The United States is a nation of immigrants, and we should be proud of that,” Zuckerberg writes in a Facebook post. He noted that his grandparents immigrated from Europe, while his wife Priscilla’s parents were refugees from China and Vietnam.

...

Zuckerberg is rumored to be considering a run for political office, which perhaps explains the outspoken nature of his post.

“We are a nation of immigrants, and we all benefit when the best and brightest from around the world can live, work and contribute here,” Zuckerberg writes. “I hope we find the courage and compassion to bring people together and make this world a better place for everyone.”

Read Zuckerberg’s full post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mark-zuckerberg-trump-immigration_us_588bc0c7e4b0b065cbbbfb97?section=us_world

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Lilly
32 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I have mixed feelings about this policy just like I did during the elections.

I'm suprised he has be following through on all his policies though. 

Honestly, I don't know if this concept is even going to work. However, just allowing entry to totally unvetted populations can't be a good thing.

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Agent0range

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/2-iraqis-file-lawsuit-after-being-detained-in-ny-due-to-travel-ban/index.html

This is disgusting.  These men give up everything to serve the US military.  They leave their families.  They have to have their heads completely covered when they are out on patrol, because if they are recognized, their families will be killed.  On the base, they can't even leave their rooms in case foreign national workers recognize them.  They sacrificed more for our country, than 99% of our citizens, and this is the treatment they get.  

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Clarakore
10 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/2-iraqis-file-lawsuit-after-being-detained-in-ny-due-to-travel-ban/index.html

This is disgusting.  These men give up everything to serve the US military.  They leave their families.  They have to have their heads completely covered when they are out on patrol, because if they are recognized, their families will be killed.  On the base, they can't even leave their rooms in case foreign national workers recognize them.  They sacrificed more for our country, than 99% of our citizens, and this is the treatment they get.  

Trump is a traitor to our allies.

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Gromdor

So lets see if I got this right:

1) He banned countries that he didn't have interests in but kept countries like Saudi Arabia (911 hijackers) and Pakistan (Where Osama Bin Laden was hiding)

2) Christians are getting slaughtered in Syria and Iraq, so it is a good thing that they can't come to the U.S. because they might really be Muslims.

3) Working with the 101rst Airborne Division for 10 years, having a legal visa, and having your family already living here is not good enough vetting and you should be detained indefinitely without lawyer access if you fly in on the day of the executive order.

4) Making an executive order to isolate and detain people based on their religion on Holocaust Remembrance day is a good idea.

I miss anything?

                                    

Edited by Gromdor
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