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Claire.

Refugees/Citizens of Muslim Countries Barred

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.ZZ.
8 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

So lets see if I got this right:

1) He banned countries that he didn't have interests in but kept countries like Saudi Arabia (911 hijackers) and Pakistan (Where Osama Bin Laden was hiding)

2) Christians are getting slaughtered in Syria and Iraq, so it is a good thing that they can't come to the U.S. because they might really be Muslims.

3) Working with the 101rst Airborne Division for 10 years, having a legal visa, and having your family already living here is not good enough vetting and you should be detained indefinitely without lawyer access if you fly in on the day of the executive order.

4) Making an executive order to isolate and detain people based on their religion on Holocaust Remembrance day is a good idea.

I miss anything?

                                    

Yeah, it's temporary.

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Farmer77

 

3 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Yeah, it's temporary.

 I asked this question on another thread today but what specifically is Trump going to do to improve the vetting process? If you dont know can you look at the current refugee vetting process and say what needs to be added? 

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Gromdor
5 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Yeah, it's temporary.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/index.html

Here is a link to the full text of the executive order.  Section 3 part E seems to indicate to me that it is the groundwork for something more permanent. Section F seems to be to expand this list. 

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Careful_perspective

From what I understand, the 7 countries chosen weren't done entirely by Trump, they were selected from the NSEERs program which was established after 9/11 and was only ended in December 2016 by Obama. 

NSEER program establishes countries as threats tier by tier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Entry-Exit_Registration_System

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Lilly
1 hour ago, Agent0range said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/2-iraqis-file-lawsuit-after-being-detained-in-ny-due-to-travel-ban/index.html

This is disgusting.  These men give up everything to serve the US military.  They leave their families.  They have to have their heads completely covered when they are out on patrol, because if they are recognized, their families will be killed.  On the base, they can't even leave their rooms in case foreign national workers recognize them.  They sacrificed more for our country, than 99% of our citizens, and this is the treatment they get.  

I agree that these people should be considered as being 'already vetted'. Hopefully, this will come to the attention of the State Dept and something will be done to correct this situation.

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Lilly

I've been really thinking about how all this is actually going to work...and quite frankly, I'm not so sure it will. I think the United States just needs to become far more careful across the board regarding who we allow to come into our nation. Basically, we need to 'extreme vet' everyone. The world is a very dangerous place and caution needs to be applied, period.

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and then
1 minute ago, Lilly said:

I've been really thinking about how all this is actually going to work...and quite frankly, I'm not so sure it will. I think the United States just needs to become far more careful across the board regarding who we allow to come into our nation. Basically, we need to 'extreme vet' everyone. The world is a very dangerous place and caution needs to be applied, period.

 

Ultimately, there are no perfect responses.  It is absolutely reasonable to pause the flow from obviously risky nations until a process review and tune-up can be achieved.  It's foolish to imagine we will not be targeted by Islamist terrorists if the borders are wide open.  Frankly, it makes me sick when I hear U.S. citizens shouting for the rights of these non-citizens to take precedence over those born here or naturalized for years.  When some foreign policy decision causes a backlash here, as certainly will happen, and terror attacks begin to cause mass casualties here, the rules will become extreme indeed and those who raise their voice against it will become suspect.  When people react hysterically to mostly common-sense rules, it causes them to lose the credibility they'd need when real over-stepping occurs.  They are destroying their own credibilty.

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.ZZ.
2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

 

 I asked this question on another thread today but what specifically is Trump going to do to improve the vetting process? If you dont know can you look at the current refugee vetting process and say what needs to be added? 

Good question. I don't have a clue as to the specifics, and I'm not sure anybody has all the answers yet.  One person's "extreme vetting" is another person's "religious test"   It sure has caused a firestorm though, hasn't it? People aren't talking much about "The White House lied about crowd size and illegal votes!"

I think I am going to take a wait-and-see approach. 

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acidhead

For 8 yrs Obama's administration bombed those war torn countries or abated in bombing them and the Left was silent.  Obama's bombs in their minds were peaceful bombs with absolutely no repercussions.  He warmed their tummies with his heartfelt Nobel Laureate speeches and they sucked it up like enfants do every few hrs to ease their empty stomach.  It's been sickening to say the least.  What's even more disturbing is witnessing those, mostly women and a fair amount of men who wouldn't know their masculinity if their great grandfather slapped them up the side of their head, continually engage in identity politics denouncing those who do not share their unlogical view of the world we live in all awhile proclaiming with rainbow tinted FB profile photos that Love is the answer. 

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Yamato
7 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah thats just insulting. I have to be honest I can't argue with banning immigration from muslim nations. You cant ban the religion itself because muslims have permission to lie to infidels in order to further their cause so banning the religion from entering would be a waste of time but damn if you're gonna claim to be doing something for security - DO IT ALL THE WAY.....as is this seems like a purely political move. 

Then there's also the Constitution.    But I guess if one can't make the laws, just skip the laws, and defacto make them up yourself with orders!   Incidentally that's how we wound up in another war zone like Syria in the first place.   Or-durr. 

Our policy in Syria since the day the Obama administration walked in has been stalemate while we search far and wide for our "moderates" sweethearts and patsies.  Just grinding up the meat into perpetuity while we hope to change yet another regime, replete with the red white and blue bells and whistles a snowflake needs to hear like "no boots on the ground".    It's illegal as crime and wrong as sin.

Once upon a time way back when in 2002, the R's and the D's delegated their authority to the President over Iraq because of 9/11 citing UN resolutions as the authority for the President to be able to decide the issue.   And predictably we wind up thinking a decade or two later that religion is the problem.   Now our President is a King who can do whatever the hell he wants to out there in the whole of the Middle East and beyond, a Congress and a nation of voters too stupid by an order of magnitude to stop it.

That we should even be here at all, minding these midget problems that result from this titanic blunder....like affirmative action rhetoric over how many Christians.   Just how dark and deep is this hole anyway, has anyone at least got a flashlight?

If Assad had to go, and more violence was the enlightened religion-free American whitewash solution to the problem, that's what should have been done all the way..   Assad wouldn't have lasted five weeks if the US took care of it like it could have.   But we play the stalemate game of hamburger hill instead.   Hundreds of thousands are now dead.  Scores of cities and towns completely destroyed.  Nobody grieves, nobody even cares.  It's just wanton violence in the end.   wanton violence followed by a lack of compassion for human beings who've been through said hell.  

What the heck is going on here?   What's the big stinking problem with Assad fighting terrorism in his own country?   Assad lets arms slip through to Hezbollah (according to globalist bureaucrats, a terrorist organization) so Hezbollah could defend Lebanon from Israeli forces who invaded.   That was a big opportunity to defacto annex s'more land which got blown.  The Hez put an AK-47 on their flag, that's not going to play well politically for Israel's national security.  So this is all about Israel once again using us like a little bee itch to clean up its own self-proclaimed mess, and thus, "Assad Must Go."   Obama made enormous apologistic claims for Israel before he was ever even President.   And Master Bibi has had nothing but praise for him ever since.   But, what we could do today....

I do have a fool's hope however.   It's that in the end, the Donald won't bow down at the foot of The Bibi unless it serves his own interests.   King Bibi does have tremendous control over the minds of our bipartisan automaton, but at the end of the day, Bibi won't tell what to do, Donald will tell Bibi.  

We now live in a reality where the President makes the deals (makes the money).   Tell me, what fabulous ideas for profitable real estate wealth don't exist when you can steal the deeds, the keys and the house right out of peoples' hands.   

I must be old fashioned or something, I still believe in property rights.  

Ohhhhhh, they're brown people.   Brown peoples' hands.   Now I see.   Imagine, a political movement of Europeans and Americans invading the Semites, and calling anything else that doesn't agree with it "anti-Semitic".   That's one hell of a trick, that they can even pull it off is incredible.

But nevermind all that....

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming of fooling around with "radical Islamic terrorists", being the wind-up-doll voice boxes of their propaganda, stealing (taking), murdering (liberating), making it worth our while (making it great again), $$ & et al.

 

 

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Agent0range
4 minutes ago, acidhead said:

For 8 yrs Obama's administration bombed those war torn countries or abated in bombing them and the Left was silent.  Obama's bombs in their minds were peaceful bombs with absolutely no repercussions.  He warmed their tummies with his heartfelt Nobel Laureate speeches and they sucked it up like enfants do every few hrs to ease their empty stomach.  It's been sickening to say the least.  What's even more disturbing is witnessing those, mostly women and a fair amount of men who wouldn't know their masculinity if their great grandfather slapped them up the side of their head, continually engage in identity politics denouncing those who do not share their unlogical view of the world we live in all awhile proclaiming with rainbow tinted FB profile photos that Love is the answer. 

Slow clap for the real masculine man here...

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Agent0range
13 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Good question. I don't have a clue as to the specifics, and I'm not sure anybody has all the answers yet.  One person's "extreme vetting" is another person's "religious test"   It sure has caused a firestorm though, hasn't it? People aren't talking much about "The White House lied about crowd size and illegal votes!"

I think I am going to take a wait-and-see approach. 

Can you show me an example in which the vetting process that was in place didn't work?  We have not had any attacks conducted by refugees since we agreed to accept some.  I don't know how you can approve upon ZERO, but I'm more than curious to find out.

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Sir Wearer of Hats

anyone else afraid that the next step is the Reichstag catching fire and Immigrants (and/or "the Left") catching the blame?

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Sakari
9 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

Can you show me an example in which the vetting process that was in place didn't work?  We have not had any attacks conducted by refugees since we agreed to accept some.  I don't know how you can approve upon ZERO, but I'm more than curious to find out.



Get a 55 gallon drum. Cut a hole on both sides, one big enough to stick your arm in, the other big enough to release Bee's into........At 10 minute intervals, with your arm staying in, another person places 20 more bees in barrel.

Eventually, you are going to get stung.

 

There ya go.

Edited by Sakari
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Farmer77
Just now, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

anyone else afraid that the next step is the Reichstag catching fire and Immigrants (and/or "the Left") catching the blame?

Very very much so. 

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Agent0range
1 minute ago, Sakari said:



Get a 55 gallon drum. Cut a hole on both sides, one big enough to stick your arm in, the other big enough to release Bee's into........At 10 minute intervals, with your arm staying in, another person places 100 more bees in barrel.

Eventually, you are going to get stung.

 

There ya go.

Clearly you didn't understand my question.  It was in regards to, you know, the VETTING PROCESS.  

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Sir Wearer of Hats
4 minutes ago, Sakari said:



Get a 55 gallon drum. Cut a hole on both sides, one big enough to stick your arm in, the other big enough to release Bee's into........At 10 minute intervals, with your arm staying in, another person places 20 more bees in barrel.

Eventually, you are going to get stung.

 

There ya go.

Well, there's a perfectly good argument to prevent immigration by bees.

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bee
4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

anyone else afraid that the next step is the Reichstag catching fire and Immigrants (and/or "the Left") catching the blame?

.

be not afraid - big bad President Trump isn't coming to Queensland to get ya --- 

(yet)....:passifier:

mwhahahahahaha

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, bee said:

.

be not afraid - big bad President Trump isn't coming to Queensland to get ya --- 

(yet)....:passifier:

mwhahahahahaha

Ahh yes accurate historical comparisons to the environment surrounding atrocities is definitely a matter to laugh and joke about :tu:  

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bee
7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Very very much so. 

.

but he IS coming for you ------ :cry:

.

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Farmer77
Just now, bee said:

.

but he IS coming for you ------ :cry:

.

Write fan fiction porn on your own time ;) 

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bee
Just now, Farmer77 said:

Write fan fiction porn on your own time ;) 

.

:o...........:D

.

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bee
32 minutes ago, acidhead said:

For 8 yrs Obama's administration bombed those war torn countries or abated in bombing them and the Left was silent.  Obama's bombs in their minds were peaceful bombs with absolutely no repercussions.  He warmed their tummies with his heartfelt Nobel Laureate speeches and they sucked it up like enfants do every few hrs to ease their empty stomach.  It's been sickening to say the least.  What's even more disturbing is witnessing those, mostly women and a fair amount of men who wouldn't know their masculinity if their great grandfather slapped them up the side of their head, continually engage in identity politics denouncing those who do not share their unlogical view of the world we live in all awhile proclaiming with rainbow tinted FB profile photos that Love is the answer. 

.

the disconnect and hypocrisy is just mind boggling --- it really is 

.

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Claire.

This is what I was able to find on how green card holders will be impacted:

Immigration ban includes green card holders: DHS

President Trump’s executive order banning people from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. also applies to green card holders from those countries, the Department of Homeland Security said Saturday. "It will bar green card holders," acting DHS spokeswoman Gillian Christensen told Reuters.

Green cards serve as proof of an individual’s permanent legal residence in the U.S.

A senior administration official clarified on Saturday afternoon that green card holders from the seven countries affected in the order who are currently outside the U.S. will need a case-by-case waiver to return to the U.S. Green card holders in the U.S. will have to meet with a consular officer before departing the country, the official said.

Read more The Hill

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Claire.

Oh how quickly minds change huh... :lol:

Pence once called Trump’s Muslim ban ‘unconstitutional.’ He now applauds a ban on refugees.

Vice President Pence and Defense Secretary James Mattis stood directly behind their boss Friday, one man on each side, as President Trump announced an order that will ban half the world's Shiite Muslims from entering the country for months. “I'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the United States,” Trump said from his podium at the Pentagon. “We don't want 'em here.”

Pence nodded along to the words. It was just over a year earlier when he had called Trump's proposal to ban all Muslims from entering the United States “offensive and unconstitutional.” That was before Trump picked him as his running mate and won the election.

    Calls to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional.

    — Governor Mike Pence (@GovPenceIN) December 8, 2015

Trump sat down after his speech, signed the executive order and handed it to Mattis — a retired general who six months earlier had said the mere suggestion of a ban on Muslims caused “great damage” to world order. Now, Mattis was defense secretary. He took the order and grinned while Pence started clapping.

Read more: The Washington Post

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