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Refugees/Citizens of Muslim Countries Barred


Claire.

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3 minutes ago, SNR said:

But the difference was that Jews knew we were there to help and I can't find anything on Jews beheading American Christians and trying to eliminate our way of life

We were there to help?  No, we banned them from coming here essentially condemning them to death at a concentration or labor camp.  I'm not afraid of terrorism so don't expect me to react out of fear when confronted with helping people from war torn Muslim countries.  The people that are refugees are victims not perpetrators.  The people that are at war in those countries are fighting wars and are not likely to want to come to the USA on lone wolf suicide missions.  Ever met anyone from Bosnia or Kosovo in the USA?  I have met dozens.  Were you concerned at the time we welcomed these people that they were going to Jihad your ass?  Not me.

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4 minutes ago, aztek said:

actually not all of them, they live in their communities, follow their traditions, have their own police,  visit boro park in Brooklyn, and wiliamsburg, you'll think you are in Israel. but that is doe snot matter much because they do not want to change anyone else traditions, culture to fit their own.

Granted but their numbers are a pittance compared to the whole. 

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1 minute ago, aztek said:

5-8 mil,

I don't know where you got that number.  I googled how many Jews in the USA and got

 
Quote

 

5.4 million
 
There were about 4 million adherents of Judaism in the U.S. as of 2001, approximately 1.4% of the US population. According to the Jewish Agency, for the year 2007 Israel is home to 5.4 million Jews (40.9% of the world's Jewish population), while the United States contained 5.3 million (40.2%).

 

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you are not being honest to say the least, your own link says 

American Jews
Total population

5,425,000–8,300,000[1]

1.7–2.6% of total U.S. population, 2012[2]
Regions with significant populations
In the United States, the following 13metropolitan areas host the largest Jewish American population centers: New York City,[3]Miami, Boston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia,Cincinnati, Houston, Chicago, Cleveland,Baltimore, San Francisco, Detroit, Washington, D.C..
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png United States 5.4–8.3 million
21px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png Israel 170,000[4]
Languages
Religion
Judaism
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Seven Inconvenient Facts About Trump’s Refugee Actions

1. It is NOT a “Muslim ban.” You will search the Executive Order in vain for mentions of Islam, or any other religion. By Sunday morning, the media began suffering acute attacks of honesty and writing headlines such as “Trump’s Latest Executive Order: Banning People From 7 Countries and More” (CNN) and printing the full text of the order.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/01/29/trumps-immigration-pause-sober-defenses-vs-hysterical-criticism/

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5 minutes ago, Sweetpumper said:

Seven Inconvenient Facts About Trump’s Refugee Actions

1. It is NOT a “Muslim ban.” You will search the Executive Order in vain for mentions of Islam, or any other religion. By Sunday morning, the media began suffering acute attacks of honesty and writing headlines such as “Trump’s Latest Executive Order: Banning People From 7 Countries and More” (CNN) and printing the full text of the order.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/01/29/trumps-immigration-pause-sober-defenses-vs-hysterical-criticism/

Since Bannon is on Trumps staff I think its time we recognize the potential for breitbart to be as full of crap as beforeitsnews and as biased as a white house press release. 

 

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This article from CNN, following the Nairobi Mall Attack, are the people that "extreme vetting" is meant to weed out:

"Faarax told the group that he had "experienced true brotherhood" while fighting in Somalia and that "jihad would be fun" and they would "get to shoot guns," according to the U.S. Justice Department. 
That meeting resulted in seven men traveling from Minnesota to Somalia to fight for Al-Shabaab in late 2007.
One was Shirwa Ahmed, a 26-year-old naturalized American citizen. Ahmed became the first American to conduct a suicide attack when he drove a truck loaded with explosives toward a government compound in Puntland, northern Somalia, blowing himself up and killing 20 other people in October 29, 2008. He is buried in a cemetery in Burnsville, a suburb of Minneapolis."
 

 

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9 minutes ago, simplybill said:

This article from CNN, following the Nairobi Mall Attack, are the people that "extreme vetting" is meant to weed out:

"Faarax told the group that he had "experienced true brotherhood" while fighting in Somalia and that "jihad would be fun" and they would "get to shoot guns," according to the U.S. Justice Department. 
That meeting resulted in seven men traveling from Minnesota to Somalia to fight for Al-Shabaab in late 2007.
One was Shirwa Ahmed, a 26-year-old naturalized American citizen. Ahmed became the first American to conduct a suicide attack when he drove a truck loaded with explosives toward a government compound in Puntland, northern Somalia, blowing himself up and killing 20 other people in October 29, 2008. He is buried in a cemetery in Burnsville, a suburb of Minneapolis."
 

 

 The terrorists in the story you posted came to America as children. As Trump himself said the all out ban is temporary so how exactly is trumps new "extreme vetting" going to keep someone from growing up and formulating their own opinions? 

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1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

how exactly is trumps new "extreme vetting" going to keep someone from growing up and formulating their own opinions? 

 

He could use the lefty tactics. Seems to work in our universities.

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20 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

 The terrorists in the story you posted came to America as children. As Trump himself said the all out ban is temporary so how exactly is trumps new "extreme vetting" going to keep someone from growing up and formulating their own opinions? 

The terrorists grew up in an insular group of radical Somalians that funded and promoted Jihad. That's one of the problems when mass immigration occurs alongside of low unemployment rates in the host countries: military-age young men have too much time on their hands and become targets for radical recruiters. 

That's why extreme vetting is important. It doesn't make sense for the U.S. to import families who are fleeing from murderous cults, and then import the murderous cults along with the families. 

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2 hours ago, aztek said:

they are same radical Muslims who want everyone even some groups of other Muslims dead,  that is same for taliban, aq, isis... the bottom line is same for all,  kill infidels\noneblievers

While I agree (somewhat shockingly) that they want anyone who doesn't follow their particular twisted version of Islam dead, it's not correct to say that their aims are the same. The Taliban simply aimed for the reestablishment of a state under their control. Al Qaeda and ISIS are more similar but still subtly different. Al Qaeda aimed for dominance over the world (in a strategy disturbingly similar to what is being played out today), whereas ISIS wants an apocalypse. The former is stoppable. Just break their strategy and show that it's not going to work. Defeating ISIS is entirely different. Sure, you can kill their followers. Good start. Then they go underground. After that, the question is whether you can kill them faster than they can recruit.

This is the reason I've always advocated understanding your enemy. Military action is vital but isn't going to win this on its own. We need to cut off their supply of recruits. That means education and not playing into their caricatures of the West. That's where I think barring refugees falls down. They had three choices: fight, join or flee. By removing the option of fleeing, they are forced to join or fight. It stands to reason that some will choose to join, whether they agree with the ideology or not.

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Just now, simplybill said:

The terrorists grew up in an insular group of radical Somalians that funded and promoted Jihad. That's one of the problems when mass immigration occurs alongside of low unemployment rates in the host countries: military-age young men have too much time on their hands and become targets for radical recruiters. 

That's why extreme vetting is important. It doesn't make sense for the U.S. to import families who are fleeing from murderous cults, and then import the murderous cults along with the families. 

  Under the current refugee vetting system if one has a criminal record they're not allowed in. So what is Trump going to be doing differently? 

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Just now, Farmer77 said:

So what is Trump going to be doing differently? 

Why do you think I would know that?

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Just now, simplybill said:

Why do you think I would know that?

Because you, along with hundreds of others, are on here saying "extreme vetting is needed" and applauding trumps actions yet can't point out where the current vetting system fails OR what trump is going to do to improve upon the system in place. 

 

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4 hours ago, SNR said:

Well at least they don't go round chopping ******* heads off.

Because you say so I have to buy that do I?

I'm beginning to realise where some of these tales start. They start on forums like this and before you know it, it's a headline story on CNN. Enough said 

You are entitled to believe what you want, but a little bit of fact-checking never hurt anyone. As for Christians not going around chopping people's heads off, well okay sure if you want to draw a distinction between chopping someone's head off and blowing it off.  Whilst Christian extremists may or may not be into throat-slitting much, they do seem to exhibit a fondness for acid attacks and chemical weapons much the same way Islamic extremists do. Just ask the anti-abortionists. Indeed, whilst you're at it, check out Anti-Abortion Violence.

You insist Christians do not call out for the deaths of non-believers. Crusades, holy wars, and forced conversions aside, Christian Terrorism is a very real threat. Here in the US, the Ku Klux Klan has been terrorizing Americans in the name of Protestantism and racial purity for more than 150 years. Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was obsessed with the Branch Davidians, a Seventh-Day Aventist splinter group. Jim David Adkisson, the gunman behind the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church shooting was a devout Christian and anti-abortion right-winger. He targeted the church because of its liberal teachings.

I can go on, but this isn't a p***ing contest. What's important is to acknowledge that Christians (by virtue of being Christian) aren't necessarily less likely than Muslims to commit an act of terror. 

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3 minutes ago, Claire. said:

What's important is to acknowledge that Christians (by virtue of being Christian) aren't necessarily less likely than Muslims to commit an act of terror. 

LMAO!!! This site is turning into comedy gold.

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4 minutes ago, Claire. said:

You are entitled to believe what you want, but a little bit of fact-checking never hurt anyone. As for Christians not going around chopping people's heads off, well okay sure if you want to draw a distinction between chopping someone's head off and blowing it off.  Whilst Christian extremists may or may not be into throat-slitting much, they do seem to exhibit a fondness for acid attacks and chemical weapons much the same way Islamic extremists do. Just ask the anti-abortionists. Indeed, whilst you're at it, check out Anti-Abortion Violence.

You insist Christians do not call out for the deaths of non-believers. Crusades, holy wars, and forced conversions aside, Christian Terrorism is a very real threat. Here in the US, the Ku Klux Klan has been terrorizing Americans in the name of Protestantism and racial purity for more than 150 years. Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was obsessed with the Branch Davidians, a Seventh-Day Aventist splinter group. Jim David Adkisson, the gunman behind the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church shooting was a devout Christian and anti-abortion right-winger. He targeted the church because of its liberal teachings.

I can go on, but this isn't a p***ing contest. What's important is to acknowledge that Christians (by virtue of being Christian) aren't necessarily less likely than Muslims to commit an act of terror. 

Ah but they're not 'proper' Christians. They're ones that have twisted the message in the Bible. ISIS on the other hand are definitely, absolutely representative of the entire Muslim population, the rest just hide it :rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Setton said:

ISIS on the other hand are definitely, absolutely representative of the entire Muslim population, the rest just hide it :rolleyes:

Who says that?

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12 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Because you, along with hundreds of others, are on here saying "extreme vetting is needed" and applauding trumps actions yet can't point out where the current vetting system fails OR what trump is going to do to improve upon the system in place. 

 

for starters criminal record is not enough, may be their travel history, (when possible), maybe they will use social media now more than before,  investigate associations,  there is so much we can check.  we can also learn a thing or two from ELAL security people, Israel also can teach us about border walls,

Edited by aztek
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EXCLUSIVE – Islamic State Supporters React Angrily to Trump’s Temporary Refugee Halt

“The madman Trump is still ignorant of politics, science and culture,” IS supporter Abu Maslama wrote to his associates on the Telegram app. “That Islam-hating Crusader prevents Muslims from entering America. That failed Nazi thinks that this will stop the mujahedeen from striking his country. Doesn’t he understand that his country will implode? When that happens, he’ll panic and backpedal on his Islam-hating policies.”

ABU MUSALAMA TELEG

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/01/30/exclusive-islamic-state-supporters-react-angrily-trumps-temporary-refugee-halt/

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Just now, aztek said:

for starters criminal record is not enough, may be their travel history, (when possible), maybe they will use social media now more than before,  investigate associations,  there is so much we can check.  we can also learn a thing or two from ELAL security people,

Holy **** Aztek you are the first person since trump started this to ACTUALLY mention something which can change for the better with the social media issue!!! Give that man a star!

 The rest you mentioned is already being done , but youre right social media is not under the current system. At least not by the US , considering they get vetted by the UN prior to the US vetting I wonder if thats being done on that level. 

Anyways good point on the social media issue 

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6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Because you, along with hundreds of others, are on here saying "extreme vetting is needed" and applauding trumps actions yet can't point out where the current vetting system fails OR what trump is going to do to improve upon the system in place. 

 

That's what the 120-day pause in immigration is for. The system needs to be examined and updated to address the world situation we live in today. 

One point that I hope is addressed:

We're not obligated to accept "mass immigration". The U.S. Government has every right to restrict immigration according to its ability to effectively absorb immigrants. We are not required to bankrupt the U.S. just for the purpose of relocating citizens from other countries. That would be a disservice both to American citizens and to immigrants.

 

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5 minutes ago, aztek said:

for starters criminal record is not enough, may be their travel history, (when possible), maybe they will use social media now more than before,  investigate associations,  there is so much we can check.  we can also learn a thing or two from ELAL security people, Israel also can teach us about border walls,

Ok so digging a little further it looks like social media is being investigated but only if other flags pop up causing further investigation first. https://fcw.com/articles/2016/02/04/uscis-social-spinosa.aspx 

So now what about those who already hold green cards trying to get back into the country, isnt  that a violation of their 4th amendment rights? 

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