Yamato Posted February 5, 2017 #126 Share Posted February 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Most inspected country. There's a reason for that. Because they've tried hiding their nuke programs over and over, and over, and over again. How many Israelis flew planes into the World Trade Center? The Jews aren't the problem in that region. The first line is total BS. They don't have a "nuke" program and never did. What are you talking about? The 2nd line, what does that have to do? How many Iranians flew planes into the World Trade Center? Jesus Christ. The Persians aren't the problem. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 5, 2017 #127 Share Posted February 5, 2017 59 minutes ago, Yamato said: Where did I say proof? If you want proof you will have zero for Iran's "nukes". But my head is deep enough in the sand I can see inside Dimona. And this is rogue nuclear WEAPONS activity. But they didn't sign the treaty, so it's not "illegal". You're hiding behind a double standard where there's no rules and nothing but secrecy for Israel. It might behoove you to spend your energy focused on a nuclear deal with Israel first but you won't do that. It's not my definition of proof that's at issue, it's your clinging to legal hypocrisy Probably because I've never seen thousands of Israelis standing in a market square shouting, "Death to America!". That tends to put those nations on my "questionable" catagory that need to be watched. What has Israel ever really done? Won a war launched against them by the Arabs? Put settlements on land they conquered? Reciprocated when terrorists attack from their self governed segregated communities? Yeah, they're the boogie man alright. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 5, 2017 #128 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yamato said: The first line is total BS. They don't have a "nuke" program and never did. What are you talking about? The 2nd line, what does that have to do? How many Iranians flew planes into the World Trade Center? Jesus Christ. The Persians aren't the problem. More sand in your eyes Yamato? You just posted last page that the Iranians had secret bases to enrich Uranium and produce Plutonium. And that they worked on detonators and delivery systems. How much more do you need to see? What other purpose does a nuclear detonator have? Fixated on minutia so you can't see the forest for the trees. Worried when there is a palm tree in an apple orchard, so it can't be an orchard. From your earlier Link: Quote Parchin[edit] Parchin Military Complex (35.52°N 51.77°E) is located approximately 20 kilometers southeast of downtown Tehran. The IAEA was given access to Parchin on 1 November 2005, and took environmental samples: inspectors did not observe any unusual activities in the buildings visited, and the results of the analysis of environmental samples did not indicate the presence of nuclear material.[36] Parchin is a facility for the testing and manufacturing of conventional explosives; IAEA safeguards inspectors were looking not for evidence of nuclear material, but of the kind of explosives testing consistent with nuclear weapons research and development.[37] In November 2011, the IAEA reported that it had "credible" information that Parchin was used for implosion testing.[38] The IAEA sought additional access to Parchin, which Iran did not grant.[39] Credible evidence of detonator testing. Is there a medical reason to do that testing? Edited February 5, 2017 by DieChecker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor Witness Posted February 5, 2017 #129 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said: He would likely have to be Jewish or a Jew to be accepted into the temple. Jared Kushner according to Trump will make peace in the Middle East... What Antiochus already did will not be repeated. These people are not going to return to sacrificing animals on altars. There is a reason the veil was ripped in the Temple when Jesus died. There is a reason there was an earthquake. There is a reason there was a solar eclipse. The reason, is it the mercy seat was replaced with something new. That something is a man, not a building. A second resurrection of a human being while that person is lying in state is all it takes to make people believe in he who must make war on Christianity, not Judaism. That's when he declares himself to be God. That's when Christians suddenly realize what they're dealing with. Edited February 5, 2017 by Raptor Witness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 5, 2017 #130 Share Posted February 5, 2017 The bolded parts will be interesting to see Quote Iran to impose legal restrictions on some US entities, individuals: TV Tehran said it will react accordingly to any U.S. measure aimed at the Iranian nation's interests. "In retaliation for the U.S. sanctions, Iran will impose legal restrictions on some American individuals and entities that were involved in helping and founding regional terrorist groups," the Foreign Ministry statement said. It said names of the entities and individuals would be announced later. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-iran-idUSKBN15I2R2?il=0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted February 6, 2017 #131 Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, DieChecker said: More sand in your eyes Yamato? You just posted last page that the Iranians had secret bases to enrich Uranium and produce Plutonium. And that they worked on detonators and delivery systems. How much more do you need to see? What other purpose does a nuclear detonator have? Fixated on minutia so you can't see the forest for the trees. Worried when there is a palm tree in an apple orchard, so it can't be an orchard. From your earlier Link: Credible evidence of detonator testing. Is there a medical reason to do that testing? This reply doesn't have anything to do with your previous reply you're just reaching for other things now, so let's address those. Who said they couldn't enrich Uranium? Go find where in the neocon-zionist ub blub it said that. You do understand that you need fuel to have a legal nuclear program right? The alternative to producing their own fuel is to get it imported in from the US, Russia, and even Israel in theory which is a joke on its face considering we completely ignore Israel which is above the law. Whatever you're trying to say here can't handle a single standard good enough for everyone. Surely the magic holy bomb of national suicide is the only thing they'd ever need a detonator for. If it's not a medical detonator? What could it be! Let's attach other objects to the fantasy object we're selling and that'll make the fantasy object come to life?! We keep pumping out the hypocrisy while we're sticking it to another "enemy". There are multiple tech streams that Iran enjoys that put it on a theoretical path to develop a weapon thanks to the treaty we (almost) all signed. If we don't like it, we can leave the treaty and play ruler of the world I suppose. But don't go over there and very stupidly develop Iran's nuclear program for them when they're ruled by a brutal dictator, and think we can snub the law with ub bub when the politics change. http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/09/18/440567960/born-in-the-u-s-a-how-america-created-irans-nuclear-program Israel needs to be shown a pen, sat down in a seat, and told to "SIGN." And let the long overdue unprecedented inspections begin. We'll continue to work with Iran in kind, and in the light of a single standard that avoids the hypocrisy and that yeah, really is good enough for everyone. I think the non-proliferation treaty is good enough for both us, Iran, and the rest of the world. Simple as that. Backpedal from there if you wish. There's no temporary geopolitical concern worth endless hypocrisy. We'll be safer and freer when we avoid it. When people in the Middle East chant: "Democracy Hypocrisy" they have a point. It's just like Ron Paul always said, if we shared our goodness with the world they'd want to emulate us. It's not their fault we're such lousy salesmen when it comes to foreign policy. Edited February 6, 2017 by Yamato 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 6, 2017 #132 Share Posted February 6, 2017 15 hours ago, Yamato said: Who said they couldn't enrich Uranium? Go find where in the neocon-zionist ub blub it said that. You do understand that you need fuel to have a legal nuclear program right? The alternative to producing their own fuel is to get it imported in from the US, Russia, and even Israel in theory which is a joke on its face considering we completely ignore Israel which is above the law. Whatever you're trying to say here can't handle a single standard good enough for everyone. Anyone is allowed to enrich Uranium to a certain degree. The Non-Proliferation Treaty sets that limit. When Iran tries to hide their enrichment facilities so the IAEA can't inspect, that is a big red flag. Here is what I am reading in your post... "Iran can build a bomb... Because... Israel." That is a super p*** poor reason if you ask me. If Iran wants to pull out of the Non-proliferation Treaty, then I'll change my tune, till then they have to live up to the treaty like everyone else. Quote Surely the magic holy bomb of national suicide is the only thing they'd ever need a detonator for. If it's not a medical detonator? What could it be! Let's attach other objects to the fantasy object we're selling and that'll make the fantasy object come to life?! We keep pumping out the hypocrisy while we're sticking it to another "enemy". There are multiple tech streams that Iran enjoys that put it on a theoretical path to develop a weapon thanks to the treaty we (almost) all signed. If we don't like it, we can leave the treaty and play ruler of the world I suppose. But don't go over there and very stupidly develop Iran's nuclear program for them when they're ruled by a brutal dictator, and think we can snub the law with ub bub when the politics change. Ranting a raving... Please show me what a MEDICAL nuclear detonator looks like. Please. If you can find one. You're trying to make it MY opinion, but it is not. The various nuclear weapon issues Iran has had have been confirmed by a half dozen international agencies. The fact you want to argue doesn't make you correct and me wrong. It just means you either are purposefully being confrontive, or you're truly ignorant. Quote http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/09/18/440567960/born-in-the-u-s-a-how-america-created-irans-nuclear-program Israel needs to be shown a pen, sat down in a seat, and told to "SIGN." And let the long overdue unprecedented inspections begin. We'll continue to work with Iran in kind, and in the light of a single standard that avoids the hypocrisy and that yeah, really is good enough for everyone. What would having them sign change? You're making excuses for Iran regardless of the evidence. Are you magically going to change your tune if Israel allows the IAEA to visit all their nuclear (non-military) facilities? I'd tend to doubt it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted February 7, 2017 #133 Share Posted February 7, 2017 8 hours ago, DieChecker said: Anyone is allowed to enrich Uranium to a certain degree. The Non-Proliferation Treaty sets that limit. When Iran tries to hide their enrichment facilities so the IAEA can't inspect, that is a big red flag. Here is what I am reading in your post... "Iran can build a bomb... Because... Israel." That is a super p*** poor reason if you ask me. If Iran wants to pull out of the Non-proliferation Treaty, then I'll change my tune, till then they have to live up to the treaty like everyone else. Ranting a raving... Please show me what a MEDICAL nuclear detonator looks like. Please. If you can find one. You're trying to make it MY opinion, but it is not. The various nuclear weapon issues Iran has had have been confirmed by a half dozen international agencies. The fact you want to argue doesn't make you correct and me wrong. It just means you either are purposefully being confrontive, or you're truly ignorant. What would having them sign change? You're making excuses for Iran regardless of the evidence. Are you magically going to change your tune if Israel allows the IAEA to visit all their nuclear (non-military) facilities? I'd tend to doubt it. Well you still completely ignore the nuclear rogues who actually have weapons and poke Iran full of ifs, coulds, cans and "nuclear weapon issues" instead. The hypocrisy ruins our moral authority and the Iranians know it. If the treaty has any real enforcement mechanism at all, then there should be penalties for non-compliance ranging from the Iranian nibblets all the way up to not even signing the darn thing like Israel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarakore Posted February 7, 2017 #134 Share Posted February 7, 2017 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 7, 2017 #135 Share Posted February 7, 2017 12 hours ago, Yamato said: Well you still completely ignore the nuclear rogues who actually have weapons and poke Iran full of ifs, coulds, cans and "nuclear weapon issues" instead. The hypocrisy ruins our moral authority and the Iranians know it. If the treaty has any real enforcement mechanism at all, then there should be penalties for non-compliance ranging from the Iranian nibblets all the way up to not even signing the darn thing like Israel. Ignore the nuclear rogues? WTH are you talking about? What exactly are we to do about them? They already have nukes. Ground invasion? Damn, that's a fine idea Yamato. You are such a war monger. You want us to invade Israel apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 7, 2017 #136 Share Posted February 7, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted February 7, 2017 #137 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, DieChecker said: Ignore the nuclear rogues? WTH are you talking about? What exactly are we to do about them? They already have nukes. Ground invasion? Damn, that's a fine idea Yamato. You are such a war monger. You want us to invade Israel apparently. If what we're doing to Iran for the reasons we're doing it are legitimate, then it'll be something worse than that for ditching the whole treaty altogether. If I have my druthers this wouldn't be happening in the first place to even have to draw the comparison, but if the anti-Iran club is right, and we have a sense of proportion, then yes we're talking bone-crushing sanctions economy-wide. If it's what I want then it's like I've been alluding to, I want compliance, inspections, non-proliferation, a single standard for the entire world on the issue of nuclear weapons. Not little sweethearts who are above the law. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 7, 2017 #138 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Quote Iran's leader says Donald Trump has shown the 'real face of America' and warns 'the Iranian people' will respond to his 'threats' on upcoming anniversary of Islamic revolution Ayatollah Ali Khamenei dismissed Donald Trump's recent threats made to Iran The supreme leader said he will respond on February 10 - the Islamic anniversary He made the calls in his first speech since Trump's inauguration last month Trump aggravated Khamenei over comments made about nuclear weapons Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4199278/Iran-leader-rebuffs-Trump-warning-says-shows-Americas-real-face.html#ixzz4Y2HsPZWu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 7, 2017 #139 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, seeder said: Im curious, what does that article mean to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 7, 2017 #140 Share Posted February 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said: Im curious, what does that article mean to you? well the article suggest Feb 10th will be the day...thats just 3 days away.. but then again, could all be just some posturing only.....but....lets see what happens on the 10th Quote The heated exchanges reached a crescendo yesterday when Iran boasted it only needs seven minutes to hit a US airbase in Tel Aviv with a ballistic missile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 7, 2017 #141 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 minute ago, seeder said: well the article suggest Feb 10th will be the day...thats just 3 days away.. but then again, could all be just some posturing only.....but....lets see what happens on the 10th Ok, thanks. I asked before I read the article, I am finding the pounding of the war drums is starting in a big way so im curious about people's perceptions Buried deep in the article was this piece of information: No, Iranians will respond to such words with February 10 rallies and will show what is their position toward threats.' Basically its gonna be another organized national "death to america" rally is what I took from it. Considering Trumps rhetoric its not surprising I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted February 7, 2017 #142 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Quote MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Iran has never been seen having any ties with Daesh, al-Nusra Front or other terrorist groups, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Monday. https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201702061050390158-iran-terrorism-russia Quote Russia disagrees with US on Iran characterizationhttp://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/02/06/509365/Russia-Peskov-US-Trump-Iran-accusation Quote China protests to US over new Iran sanctionshttp://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/02/06/509355/Iran-China-US-protest-sanctions-list 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted February 7, 2017 #143 Share Posted February 7, 2017 12 hours ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said: Sometimes memes are funny or thought-provoking. Most of the time, they are used to grossly over-simplify complex ideas. Not saying that's you but it had to be said - memes make poor substitutes for a a solid argument. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 7, 2017 #144 Share Posted February 7, 2017 What is the surprise? Obama has been paving the road of war to Iran for years. He simply decided to hit Syria and Libya first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted February 7, 2017 #145 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Just now, Michelle said: What is the surprise? Obama has been paving the road of war to Iran for years. He simply decided to hit Syria and Libya first. Bush laid the foundation for that road. Hell I was shocked that he didnt get us in there in 04 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarakore Posted February 7, 2017 #146 Share Posted February 7, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted February 9, 2017 #147 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I think that map of military bases is symbolic of the real reason for Trump's ridiculous immigration ban. If he can get America to stomach seven countries, it'll be a cakewalk stomaching Iran and Syria. It's not just the bases either, we've had Iran surrounded with sizable military forces to the East and West 15 years, and naval presence blocking the South. Their lifeline at this point looks like Russia and the North. They pull their motorboats out on the Strait of Hormuz and America shrieks in terror. The elephant doesn't really have anything to worry about and spending money on the mouse is a waste of money. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted February 10, 2017 #148 Share Posted February 10, 2017 [LINK] Iran Hawks Take the White House Very good article from The American Conservative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 10, 2017 #149 Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 2/7/2017 at 0:55 PM, Yamato said: If what we're doing to Iran for the reasons we're doing it are legitimate, then it'll be something worse than that for ditching the whole treaty altogether. If I have my druthers this wouldn't be happening in the first place to even have to draw the comparison, but if the anti-Iran club is right, and we have a sense of proportion, then yes we're talking bone-crushing sanctions economy-wide. If it's what I want then it's like I've been alluding to, I want compliance, inspections, non-proliferation, a single standard for the entire world on the issue of nuclear weapons. Not little sweethearts who are above the law. The whole point of the Treaty is that inspectors can verify what is going on. If a nation isn't part of the Treaty, then it can not be inspected. BUT, if Israel did attack anyone with nukes, then the US and ALL OTHER signatories to the Treaty would have to act against them. Thus, Israel will not use the nukes except in the greatest of situations. There is no "little sweethearts", because if they used a nuke, or even TESTED one, they'd be targeted by the rest of the world. AFAIK Israel hasn't actually tested a nuke, unless the suppositions of nuke tests in the southern Indian Ocean decades and decades ago are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted February 10, 2017 #150 Share Posted February 10, 2017 7 hours ago, DieChecker said: The whole point of the Treaty is that inspectors can verify what is going on. If a nation isn't part of the Treaty, then it can not be inspected. BUT, if Israel did attack anyone with nukes, then the US and ALL OTHER signatories to the Treaty would have to act against them. Thus, Israel will not use the nukes except in the greatest of situations. There is no "little sweethearts", because if they used a nuke, or even TESTED one, they'd be targeted by the rest of the world. AFAIK Israel hasn't actually tested a nuke, unless the suppositions of nuke tests in the southern Indian Ocean decades and decades ago are correct. You're making the case for Iran to never sign the treaty in the first place, so we can completely ignore them just like Israel. Yeah, sure you are. If Israel attacked any NATO member, ALL OTHER NATO members would be attacked. Thus, the Treaty was thrown in the trash can as soon as Israel attacked NATO members on international waters. Another example of what we do to our treaties for our "unbreakable ally", the criminal state that's above the law, again. How failsafe are systems that have never been tested before, or according to rumors, decades and decades ago? Nobody knows if Israel has ever tested a nuke before and that's another reason why inspections are even more important. Israel is above the law however and has no compliance and can't be verified. Because way too many people just like you would like nothing more to do than make endless rhetorical excuses for criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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