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Claire.

US to Iran: You're "On Notice"

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The Truman show
3 minutes ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

Given how Iranian-backed millitias have been crushing ISIS scumbags throughout the region I really can't say that their interests conflict with ours at this point. In fact, they are a natural ally against all golf-sponsored extremists groups.

...strange how the bigger picture often gets lost in the web of Middle Eastern friends and enemies. But it must be said that nuclear weapons proliferation is not a good thing. Maybe Trump should continue and strengthen Obama's policy first before going full ultra zionist on Iran.

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Yamato
3 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

...strange how the bigger picture often gets lost in the web of Middle Eastern friends and enemies. But it must be said that nuclear weapons proliferation is not a good thing. Maybe Trump should continue and strengthen Obama's policy first before going full ultra zionist on Iran.

There's no evidence that nuclear weapons proliferation is even an issue.  This is the same false fear narrative that the neocons pulled about Iraq in 2002-2003.  They're suicidal maniacs who want to use weapons of mass destruction first chance they get.

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The Truman show
2 minutes ago, Yamato said:

There's no evidence that nuclear weapons proliferation is even an issue.  This is the same false fear narrative that the neocons pulled about Iraq in 2002-2003.  They're suicidal maniacs who want to use weapons of mass destruction first chance they get.

Might not be any evidence like you say but i can see Iran trying to procure nuclear weapons at some stage. Its the ultimate 'don't mess with me' Especially if the infrastructure is in place. And its not just Iran either, Saudi Arabia and Turkey are also gunning for this. If the Iranians and the Russians who sold Iran its technology can guarantee there will be no program then fine. And if they back tract then bomb them but pre-empting a strike cause it might is wrong. ike i said Obama had a good plan that should have been allowed to flourish. I wonder if Israel would be just as forceful in advocating non proliferation of nuclear weapons for de-facto allies like Turkey and Saudi Arabia.  

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.ZZ.
1 hour ago, Yamato said:

I think he's going to make our military so great they just might end up refusing his orders.

Not these guys.

Navy seals fly Trump flag

Prediction: Now I will hear something like "Well, that's just a small sample, not indicative of the overall military."

 

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The Truman show

Did Iran's Ballistic Missile Test Violate A U.N. Resolution?

So did Iran violate the agreement or not?

Most nonproliferation experts would say Iran certainly defied the spirit of the U.N. resolution, but technically didn't violate it — because it contains no prohibition against such testing, as one of its predecessors, passed in 2010, specifically did.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/02/03/513229839/did-irans-ballistic-missile-test-violate-a-u-n-resolution

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Yamato
20 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

Not these guys.

Navy seals fly Trump flag

Prediction: Now I will hear something like "Well, that's just a small sample, not indicative of the overall military."

 

Prediction:  You'll keep ignoring everything in the OP video.

If you'd like a response to your link, military isn't allowed to voice its political opinions that happen to oppose their commander in chief without making problems for themselves.   If you think that the troops are an institution of free thinkers, think again.  When you join the military the govt owns you.  If that armored fighting vehicle was photographed with a Trump flag with a No-sign through it, it'd turn into a military investigation and a media controversy.  

 

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.ZZ.

You got me, I concede, I was wrong. I know nothing about the military at all.

Oh, I forgot > :rolleyes:

 

Edited by .ZZ.
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Yamato
22 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Did Iran's Ballistic Missile Test Violate A U.N. Resolution?

So did Iran violate the agreement or not?

Most nonproliferation experts would say Iran certainly defied the spirit of the U.N. resolution, but technically didn't violate it — because it contains no prohibition against such testing, as one of its predecessors, passed in 2010, specifically did.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/02/03/513229839/did-irans-ballistic-missile-test-violate-a-u-n-resolution

Here's the text of the original if anyone would like to read it.

http://i.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/1929.pdf

How difficult is it to start a war with all that?   There's so much ub blub there it's practically impossible not to violate.   The list of sanctions the latter agreement offered to lift was so ridiculous, it's a neocon garbage dump of economic warfare having nothing to do with nukes there's zero evidence for, and all to do with punishing Iran's economy.

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Gromdor

Trump has his own flag now?  And US soldiers fly it instead of Old Glory?

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ExpandMyMind
1 hour ago, Yamato said:

Here's the text of the original if anyone would like to read it.

http://i.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/1929.pdf

How difficult is it to start a war with all that?   There's so much ub blub there it's practically impossible not to violate.   The list of sanctions the latter agreement offered to lift was so ridiculous, it's a neocon garbage dump of economic warfare having nothing to do with nukes there's zero evidence for, and all to do with punishing Iran's economy.

They've now sanctioned Iran. A timely coincidence, considering Iran just dropped the dollar and started selling to Japan in Yen. What happened to the last countries in the region that dropped the dollar? I think they're pretty much rubble now. (Post pretty much lifted from BBC comments section).

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Jarocal
5 hours ago, Gromdor said:

  I'm thinking war with Iran is very likely.  The people who have been clamoring to attack Iran are in power now.  Trump has been dying to use the military for something as evidence in his offers to do martial law in Chicago, send troops to Mexico to fight "Bad Hombres", stop out ISIS, threats to North Korea, the Chinese South Seas thing and now this Iran thing.   Wars also tend to enhance populist president's prestige, which fits into his MO as well.   Of all the possible theaters of conflict, the Iran one is the best choice and most favored by the populace.

I think our military working cooperatively with the Mexican Government to combat the illegal Cartel activities would do more to improve the lives of American (and Mexican) citizens than the last couple decades of meddling in the Middle East has accomplished. Of course my view is contingent upon scaling back our military activities in the M.E. to fufilling our current commitments in the M.E. countries we have exacerbated issues in such as Iraq but phasing the support out as their government requests it. 

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ian hacktorp

This is a slippery slope.

I mean, one minute they're "on notice" and before we know it, they're on "double secret probation".

Madness

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Yamato
55 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

They've now sanctioned Iran. A timely coincidence, considering Iran just dropped the dollar and started selling to Japan in Yen. What happened to the last countries in the region that dropped the dollar? I think they're pretty much rubble now. (Post pretty much lifted from BBC comments section).

Good points.   Sanctions are a good indicator that commonly precede war.   And the currency exchange as well... those fools.

I suppose I'll have to put my hopes on Putin then to stop this madness.   Something smells like "a deal" between Trump and Putin though so it is probably just a fool's hope.   So Putin, and other hooligans over here, if the antiwar ones would come out of their shells already.

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Yamato
16 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

I think our military working cooperatively with the Mexican Government to combat the illegal Cartel activities would do more to improve the lives of American (and Mexican) citizens than the last couple decades of meddling in the Middle East has accomplished. Of course my view is contingent upon scaling back our military activities in the M.E. to fufilling our current commitments in the M.E. countries we have exacerbated issues in such as Iraq but phasing the support out as their government requests it. 

I know we don't do body counts but if we're looking at the body counts, those aren't the drugs we should be worried about.  

Dividing heroin up into good heroin and bad heroin?  That doesn't make anyone's lives better, it destroys even more lives.   The heroin doesn't care whether it's got the govt seal of approval on it or not.

The US military working for Mexico?  Do you realize that GOP spending estimates an average of over $900 Billion deficits for the next 10 years?  Because $20 Trillion isn't nearly enough!   So how much more debt would you like to run up on the credit card to militarily administer Mexico?    We're deep in the red in spending Jarocal.  Any more foreign adventures we add we're just burying it even deeper.

I'd rather just go with sensible border security that doesn't rely on ancient technology myself, but hey

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Jarocal
2 minutes ago, Yamato said:

I know we don't do body counts but if we're looking at the body counts, those aren't the drugs we should be worried about.  

Dividing heroin up into good heroin and bad heroin?  That doesn't make anyone's lives better, it destroys even more lives.   The heroin doesn't care whether it's got the govt seal of approval on it or not.

The US military working for Mexico?  Do you realize that GOP spending estimates an average of over $900 Billion deficits for the next 10 years?  Because $20 Trillion isn't nearly enough!   So how much more debt would you like to run up on the credit card to militarily administer Mexico?    We're deep in the red in spending Jarocal.  Any more foreign adventures we add we're just burying it even deeper.

I'd rather just go with sensible border security that doesn't rely on ancient technology myself, but hey

Working with, not for. While my libertarian point of view would prefer the legalization of all drugs, I am not naive enough to believe that policy will be implemented within my lifetime. The Cartels deal in more thsn drugs, human trafficking, racketeering, and other things. The reallocation of resource expenditure into an area that not only affects Americans but their direct neighbors in a positive manner seems a better expenditure than propping up corporate access to cheap foreign oil to me. (Though admittedly I am a simple minded redneck who tends to view issues as what woukd best benefit his community).

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Yamato
1 minute ago, Jarocal said:

Working with, not for. While my libertarian point of view would prefer the legalization of all drugs, I am not naive enough to believe that policy will be implemented within my lifetime. The Cartels deal in more thsn drugs, human trafficking, racketeering, and other things. The reallocation of resource expenditure into an area that not only affects Americans but their direct neighbors in a positive manner seems a better expenditure than propping up corporate access to cheap foreign oil to me. (Though admittedly I am a simple minded redneck who tends to view issues as what woukd best benefit his community).

Shooting traffickers through the head in Mexico will come to no good.  Mexicans will resent it, we'll pay for it, and the blowback will follow us home.   We don't know where in the world to go in Mexico to kill them, maybe that's Mexico's job.  They tell us where they are, we go in and do the dirty work with them?   We'll have to start shooting people with the military over here first, a spectacle our people would also resent and probably squash with state and local power.

I credit you though that you'd at least use foreign oil subsidies to pay for it.  ;)

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The Truman show
41 minutes ago, Yamato said:

Shooting traffickers through the head in Mexico will come to no good.  Mexicans will resent it, we'll pay for it, and the blowback will follow us home.   We don't know where in the world to go in Mexico to kill them, maybe that's Mexico's job.  They tell us where they are, we go in and do the dirty work with them?   We'll have to start shooting people with the military over here first, a spectacle our people would also resent and probably squash with state and local power.

I credit you though that you'd at least use foreign oil subsidies to pay for it.  ;)

I bet the Mexican's resent the gruesome carnage these cartels dispense every day, more. Shoot them in the head i say. 

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Yamato
4 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

I bet the Mexican's resent the gruesome carnage these cartels dispense every day, more. Shoot them in the head i say. 

Those Mexicans should arm themselves.

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GlitterRose

Might have been nice to give some of our people a heads up before he threatened Iran on Twitter.

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The Truman show
Just now, Yamato said:

Those Mexicans should arm themselves.

They should but i guess the enemy has many tentacles throughout Mexican society that makes distinguishing friend from foe a difficult act. That's why when the authorities capture or raid these cartels they do so with balaclava's to hide their identity. If the cop's and army are scared then you can't blame the average Mexican for being scared. I think the Mexican president should take Trump up on his offer.  

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The Truman show
4 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Trump has his own flag now?  And US soldiers fly it instead of Old Glory?

Pretty close to having his own republic too,. :) at lease for the next 4 years.

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Yamato
4 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

Might have been nice to give some of our people a heads up before he threatened Iran on Twitter.

The way Michael Flynn busted into the middle of a press briefing too, you can't do that and have it be just theater.   That Mad Dog Mattis had to calm him down and cool down his rhetoric!?  We can't come out and make idle threats like this if we don't mean it, it'll totally destroy our credibility very, very quickly.    Maybe that was like Trump blowing the horn announcing a new age of conflict.

And Netanyahu's hard on it too.   This is the exact same rhetoric George HW Bush used before we invaded Iraq.   Disturbing. 

 

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GlitterRose
Just now, Yamato said:

The way Michael Flynn busted into the middle of a press briefing too, you can't do that and have it be just theater.   That Mad Dog Mattis had to calm him down and cool down his rhetoric!?  We can't come out and make idle threats like this if we don't mean it, it'll totally destroy our credibility very, very quickly.    Maybe that was like Trump blowing the horn announcing a new age of conflict.

And Netanyahu's hard on it too.   This is the exact same rhetoric George HW Bush used before we invaded Iraq.   Disturbing. 

 

I'm concerned that he's not actually thinking about mere invasion. If it weren't for oil, I'd be thinking he was gonna nuke the place for morbid. 

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Yamato
2 minutes ago, ChaosRose said:

I'm concerned that he's not actually thinking about mere invasion. If it weren't for oil, I'd be thinking he was gonna nuke the place for morbid. 

It was the neocons who infamously pushed for the idea of "tactical nukes".     Maybe they intend to use nuclear tipped bunker busters to bury the Iranian regime in a crater 200ft deep.

And note how he distinguishes the regime from the people, exactly like what the Iranian Imam's quote did...where much of this Iranian-threat nonsense comes from.

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GlitterRose
5 minutes ago, Yamato said:

It was the neocons who infamously pushed for the idea of "tactical nukes".     Maybe they intend to use nuclear tipped bunker busters to bury the Iranian regime in a crater 200ft deep.

And note how he distinguishes the regime from the people, exactly like what the Iranian Imam's quote did...where much of this Iranian-threat nonsense comes from.

I find that I don't always agree with you, but I always find your posts thought-provoking. 

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