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Claire.

US to Iran: You're "On Notice"

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Yamato
3 hours ago, Poppi said:

#91- Israel has had nukes for some time now.

Then they've had some time to find a pen.  We've had some time to put it in their hands and say "Sign."  

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Giving Iran's pledges to destroy Israel - who is in the right , regarding the right to possess nukes...Israel hasn't eliminated the countries who vow its destruction...If the muslims had the nuke- would they have used it against Israel

I'd say Israel's more than half way there to eliminating Palestine.  And what's ironic is the authority to even pay the careful attention to Iran in the first place is the NPT, which Israel hasn't signed.  So it's literally two sets of rules. Israel's set of rules is There are no rules.  The Muslims already have the nuke in Pakistan which is 97% Muslim.  So if this grand conspiracy theory of Iranians hellbent on national suicide had any connection to reality they could probably buy one faster than they could make their own.  They've had enormous outside help for their LEGAL nuclear program and Russia's not going to take kindly to smashing it up.

 

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Iran cannot be allowed nuke access. Religion is the problem there.

Iran isn't squatting on someone else's land the way Israel is squatting on Palestine so just because other problems might not be religious, they're still problems.   We should be taking care of ourselves first, then go fix our friends' problems, and at the end of the rainbow when all the bills get paid go make our "enemies."  Iran is fighting ISIS, which should count for something if we're also choosing to believe our own rhetoric about ISIS.  Fiction is the problem with manufactured enemies like Iran and friends like "the Moderates".  

 

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Frank Merton

I think both the Iranians and the Israelis are capable of being rational most of the time.  This gives me some hope that over time things will work out if even they are.  The only really irrational regimes I see are Zimbabwe and N. Korea, and neither matters.

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Yamato
4 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

I think in future, "greatness" will be measured almost entirely by population productivity.  The great nations will be the younger, larger populations.  This may include India but not Russia or China.  It may include America if Trump's rule is short.  Brazil and Mexico and Iran and Indonesia and Pakistan are candidates, as well as several in Europe and Africa , if they get their acts in gear.  Even Vietnam and the Philippines and S. Korea and Canada and S. Africa and Egypt and Nigeria.  China and Russia and Japan and probably the US are declining (population getting old).

Nuclear weapons may become the equalizer, in which case (assuming the failure of non-proliferation), mankind will not survive and it won't matter.

You make getting old sound real bad brah.

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Frank Merton
1 minute ago, Yamato said:

You make getting old sound real bad brah.

Older workers are less productive and after awhile retire.  This is basic economics.

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Yamato
2 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Older workers are less productive and after awhile retire.  This is basic economics.

Hmm...I like to think old people are productive but I must be young and naive.   They've got more experience and wisdom so there's a trade off.  They "know the ropes" so to speak.   But hey if there's an economics chart I'll take a look at it.   Obviously people get less productive when they retire, so we'll need a chart that controls for that and I'd need to see one from the US which is a more advanced now service-sector dominated economy.   Over here, older workers get paid more because they're better at their jobs.

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Frank Merton
6 minutes ago, Yamato said:

Hmm...I like to think old people are productive but I must be young and naive.   They've got more experience and wisdom so there's a trade off.  They "know the ropes" so to speak.   But hey if there's an economics chart I'll take a look at it.   Obviously people get less productive when they retire, so we'll need a chart that controls for that and I'd need to see one from the US which is a more advanced now service-sector dominated economy.   Over here, older workers get paid more because they're better at their jobs.

There are offsets, but they've been around enough to have built a good deal of skepticism about what management says and have a huge repertoire about avoiding real work.  No two people are the same, so you have to take a mass average, not those who rise to the top.  They are also much more rigid about change and procedure and can be much more judgmental and disruptive.  Very few get wiser as they age; they just get more skeptical, and some become cynics.

Don't try measuring productivity.  That is a fool's game and the employees soon figure out how to distort it.  The whole business of "metrics" is an industry on which fortunes have been made (because, of course, some forms of productivity can be measured -- these are the jobs that are being automated.  Nine programmers can't produce a baby any faster than one.

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DieChecker
On 2/4/2017 at 4:34 AM, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

The treaty is a UN treaty. How will Trump do better when he wants to dismantle the UN or at least his supporters do?

Doubtful also that El Trumpo can make a deal of his own working outside the framework of the U.N. as he remains an outsider to the international community without the knowledge or appeal to make any inroads.

His sanctions are weak with no other countries participating. So tell me again how we don't need the UN?

HEY! Who said I support disbanding the UN? Please quit being one of those people who puts words in other people's mouths to try to make themselves sound smart. Just be smart.

The US is a major player on the world stage, and sanctions from the US alone, by itself, will create a pressure on others to do the same. True, they may not decide to increase their demands, but that shouldn't stop the US from asking for more for its approval.

Edited by DieChecker
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DieChecker
14 hours ago, Lilly said:

Iran has Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles. Iran has several Billion Dollars 'returned' to them by the Obama Administration. Iran has been covertly developing Nuclear Arms right under the nose of the United States (thanks to the horrible deal we made). Iran has Ayatollahs who encourage the populace to chant "Death to America".

Add this all up and exactly what do you think their 'End Game' likely is going to be? And if it's just a nice PC dose of "Self Determination' I'll be damn surprised.   

It seems that Hillary and Obama both believed the missiles and plutonium were for Medical Research, like they were told. 

I agree, it doesn't take a genius to see what is going on when a customer in a convenience store pulls a mask over their face and a gun from their pocket.

Edited by DieChecker
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DieChecker
11 hours ago, Yamato said:

Well that's all you've got left in the bag so it'll have to be.

That's a pipe dream perpetrated upon you by liars and their pack of lies.   There is no stated intent of building nukes, there is no evidence of nukes, there is no evidence of nuke programs.   There is no evidence to believe in the regurgitated nonsense that Iraq and now Iran has a suicidal death wish.   Fool you once, shame on them.  Fool you twice,

Wow. Yam you got your head so far down in the sand that you should actually be able to see those underground nuclear labs the Iranians have.

I thought there had been multiple defectors from the Iranian nuclear program who had stated that the Iranian government did desire to build nukes and that's why the labs were hidden, and not allowed to be inspected.

 

Edited by DieChecker

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Farmer77
14 hours ago, Lilly said:

Iran has Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles. Iran has several Billion Dollars 'returned' to them by the Obama Administration. Iran has been covertly developing Nuclear Arms right under the nose of the United States (thanks to the horrible deal we made). Iran has Ayatollahs who encourage the populace to chant "Death to America".

Add this all up and exactly what do you think their 'End Game' likely is going to be? And if it's just a nice PC dose of "Self Determination' I'll be damn surprised.   

Doesn't that sound an awful lot like the hyperbole we heard in the lead up to the iraq war? 

 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

Wow. Yam you got your head so far down in the sand that you should actually be able to see those underground nuclear labs the Iranians have.

I thought there had been multiple defectors from the Iranian nuclear program who had stated that the Iranian government did desire to build nukes and that's why the labs were hidden, and not allowed to be inspected.

 

Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war 

We gotta learn from history bro. 

Im not even saying that the info in your post is false, just that we dont really know. 

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Lilly
4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Doesn't that sound an awful lot like the hyperbole we heard in the lead up to the iraq war? 

 

It's been a very long time (all of Obama's Administration) that the issue of a nuclear armed Iran has been on the doorstep. I really do think it's only a matter of time before Iran has nuclear weapons and missiles capable of deployment.

As for WMD in Iraq, it didn't help that Saddam strongly implied he had such weapons and that his regime had indeed gassed the Kurds in prior years. I think extreme jitters over having been attacked on 9/11 and the threats Saddam made toward Bush senior had a great deal to do with that fiasco.

Edited by Lilly
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Yamato
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

Wow. Yam you got your head so far down in the sand that you should actually be able to see those underground nuclear labs the Iranians have.

Here ya go. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_facilities_in_Iran

Which one bothers you the most that you can be outsmarted again not to oppose the next dumb war?

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DieChecker
11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war 

We gotta learn from history bro. 

Im not even saying that the info in your post is false, just that we dont really know. 

So some guy from Iraq lied to the US government, so that then, "ipso facto", means that dozens of defectors from neighboring Iran must be liars also?

How do you think the UN found some of the underground nuclear facilities? Defectors and Informants. 

Edited by DieChecker

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Yamato
Just now, Lilly said:

It's been a very long time (all of Obama's Administration) that the issue of a nuclear armed Iran has been on the doorstep. I really do think it's only a matter of time before Iran has nuclear weapons and missiles capable of deployment.

Since you already claimed here that Iran has ICBMs, you might want to reevaluate where you're learning your information from to make you think that.  

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Yamato
4 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

There are offsets, but they've been around enough to have built a good deal of skepticism about what management says and have a huge repertoire about avoiding real work.  No two people are the same, so you have to take a mass average, not those who rise to the top.  They are also much more rigid about change and procedure and can be much more judgmental and disruptive.  Very few get wiser as they age; they just get more skeptical, and some become cynics.

Don't try measuring productivity.  That is a fool's game and the employees soon figure out how to distort it.  The whole business of "metrics" is an industry on which fortunes have been made (because, of course, some forms of productivity can be measured -- these are the jobs that are being automated.  Nine programmers can't produce a baby any faster than one.

In order for you to make claims about who has less productivity you'll need a valid way to measure it first.   But I digress, Iran is "On Notice", whatever that means.

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DieChecker
3 minutes ago, Yamato said:

Here ya go. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_facilities_in_Iran

Which one bothers you the most that you can be outsmarted again not to oppose the next dumb war?

Since these are "Known" facilities, I don't get your point. You are SERIOUSLY assuming that all Iranian nuclear facilities are posted on some Wikipedia page?

From your link:

Quote

Natanz[edit]
(33°43′24.43″N 51°43′37.55″E)


Natanz Nuclear Facility
Natanz is a hardened Fuel Enrichment Plant (FEP) covering 100,000 square meters that is built 8 meters underground and protected by a concrete wall 2.5 meters thick, itself protected by another concrete wall. It is located at Natanz, the capital city of Natanz County, Isfahan Province, Iran. In 2004, the roof was hardened with reinforced concrete and covered with 22 meters of earth. The complex consists of two 25,000 square meter halls and a number of administrative buildings. This once secret site was one of the two exposed by Alireza Jafarzadeh in August, 2002. IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei visited the site on 21 February 2003 and reported that 160 centrifuges were complete and ready for operation, with 1,000 more under construction at the site.[34] In accordance with Code 3.1 of the Subsidiary Arrangements to Iran's safeguards agreement that were in force up to that time, Iran was not obligated to declare the Natanz enrichment facility until six months before nuclear material was introduced into the facility.[citation needed] According to the IAEA, in 2009 there were approximately 7,000 centrifuges installed at Natanz, of which 5,000 were producing low enriched uranium.[35]

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Fordow[edit]
Main article: Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant
Fordow, near the city of Qom, is the site of an underground uranium enrichment facility at a former Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps base.[18][19] Existence of the then-unfinished Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant (FFEP) was disclosed to the IAEA by Iran on 21 September 2009,[20] but only after the site became known to Western intelligence services. Western officials strongly condemned Iran for not disclosing the site earlier; U.S. President Barack Obama said that Fordow had been under U.S. surveillance.[21] In its initial declaration, Iran stated that the purpose of the facility was the production of UF6 enriched up to 5% U-235, and that the facility was being built to contain 16 cascades, with a total of approximately 3000 centrifuges. Iran argues that this disclosure was consistent with its legal obligations under its Safeguards Agreement with the IAEA, which Iran claims requires Iran to declare new facilities 180 days before they receive nuclear material.[22] However, the IAEA stated that Iran was bound by its agreement in 2003 to declare the facility as soon as Iran decided to construct it.[23] Later, in September 2011, Iran said it would move its production of 20% LEU to Fordow from Natanz,[24] and enrichment started in December 2011.[25] According to the Institute for Science and International Security, possible coordinates of the facility's location are: 34.88459°N 50.99596°E[26]

Why should a secret enrichment facilities with secret centrifuges mean anything? Why hide medical research? Because it isn't medical research, it is military research.

Which was hidden from the IAEA, until disclosed by defectors and informants.

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third_eye

The Aging Military Warhawks needs a big bash hoo ha to make their lives meaningful other than being merely a Parade of Costumed Characters ... last chance for a shiny 'Medal' according to the Political Science Opinions over this side of the globe ...

~

 

 

~

Oooooooo ... is it 'shiny' ?

 

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Farmer77
10 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

So some guy from Iraq lied to the US government, so that then, "ipso facto", means that dozens of defectors from neighboring Iran must be liars also?

How do you think the UN found some of the underground nuclear facilities? Defectors and Informants. 

No thats not what im saying. What im saying is we've heard these exact war drums pound before and that should be a signal for us to cast a wary eye on the entire issue. 

 

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Yamato
Just now, DieChecker said:

Since these are "Known" facilities, I don't get your point. You are SERIOUSLY assuming that all Iranian nuclear facilities are posted on some Wikipedia page?

From your link:

Why should a secret enrichment facilities with secret centrifuges mean anything? Why hide medical research? Because it isn't medical research, it is military research.

Which was hidden from the IAEA, until disclosed by defectors and informants.

lol but then my link included the secret facilities, cool.  

So Natanz and Fordow?   Everything else is cool you're going to join morons to start another war over that? 

I'm going to assume you don't have anything but your healthy imagination when it comes to providing evidence of nukes or nuke components or weaponized enrichment or "weapons of mass destruction related program activities" or any bleeping thing, at all.

They have the right by law to make centrifuges, you and your war tribe are going to have to grovel and get over it.   Don't let more fools take this country to war again on another pack of lies or even a wild imagination.

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DieChecker
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

No thats not what im saying. What im saying is we've heard these exact war drums pound before and that should be a signal for us to cast a wary eye on the entire issue. 

Oh, I agree. I'm not saying let's send a million boys over and tear up the place. I'd rather we make a slightly better deal with Iran that the IAEA can enforce, which wouldn't allow them to do a quick build of a nuke and use it. I'd rather no one had nukes, but since some nations already do, I would agree with the Non-Proliferation Treaty that no one else should have them.

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Yamato
Just now, DieChecker said:

Oh, I agree. I'm not saying let's send a million boys over and tear up the place. I'd rather we make a slightly better deal with Iran that the IAEA can enforce, which wouldn't allow them to do a quick build of a nuke and use it. I'd rather no one had nukes, but since some nations already do, I would agree with the Non-Proliferation Treaty that no one else should have them.

Heck I might even support a "slightly better deal" too, but that's not what's happening here. 

Meanwhile Iran is the most inspected country in IAEA history.   Israel?   Don't know a damned thing.  Amazing the monopoly you think some states can have with their secrets.   Total double standard.

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DieChecker
2 minutes ago, Yamato said:

lol but then my link included the secret facilities, cool.  

So Natanz and Fordow?   Everything else is cool you're going to join morons to start another war over that? 

I'm going to assume you don't have anything but your healthy imagination when it comes to providing evidence of nukes or nuke components or weaponized enrichment or "weapons of mass destruction related program activities" or any bleeping thing, at all.

They have the right by law to make centrifuges, you and your war tribe are going to have to grovel and get over it.   Don't let more fools take this country to war again on another pack of lies or even a wild imagination.

Actually the Non-Proliferation Treaty that Iran signed makes much of what they've previously done illegal, which is why they have had UN sanctions on them much of the time. 

You seem to believe that someone who has robbed a store 10 times and been to jail 10 times, is not going to go rob the store again. That's called being Naive. 

Who's talking about War? You're jumping to conclusions. Do you have proof of a desire for War? You seem to see no proof of Iran doing anything, so you can't possibly see evidence of the US doing anything either. Or.... Does your definition of proof change when it is convenient for you?

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DieChecker
1 minute ago, Yamato said:

Heck I might even support a "slightly better deal" too, but that's not what's happening here. 

Meanwhile Iran is the most inspected country in IAEA history.   Israel?   Don't know a damned thing.  Amazing the monopoly you think some states can have with their secrets.   Total double standard.

Most inspected country. There's a reason for that. Because they've tried hiding their nuke programs over and over, and over, and over again.

How many Israelis flew planes into the World Trade Center? The Jews aren't the problem in that region.

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Yamato
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

Actually the Non-Proliferation Treaty that Iran signed makes much of what they've previously done illegal, which is why they have had UN sanctions on them much of the time. 

You seem to believe that someone who has robbed a store 10 times and been to jail 10 times, is not going to go rob the store again. That's called being Naive. 

Who's talking about War? You're jumping to conclusions. Do you have proof of a desire for War? You seem to see no proof of Iran doing anything, so you can't possibly see evidence of the US doing anything either. Or.... Does your definition of proof change when it is convenient for you?

Where did I say proof?   If you want proof you will have zero for Iran's "nukes".    But my head is deep enough in the sand I can see inside Dimona.  And this is rogue nuclear WEAPONS activity.   But they didn't sign the treaty, so it's not "illegal".  You're hiding behind a double standard where there's no rules and nothing but secrecy for Israel.   It might behoove you to spend your energy focused on a nuclear deal with Israel first but you won't do that.   It's not my definition of proof that's at issue, it's your clinging to legal hypocrisy

 

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