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Claire.

Just how much trouble is Michael Flynn in?

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Lilly
1 hour ago, OldNate said:

Sorry, made an assumption, forgot about the Libertarian contingency in the states, you guys flip pretty much everyone the bird, but at least I can respect you for your consistency.

But, it does raise the question:  if Trump is the guy picking these people, and the quality of them is proving to be, well, what it is, isn't it the responsibility of all citizens to do what they can to obstruct him?  Everything out of the POTUS office has been garbage, and it's barely begun.  Of anyone, I would think a Libertarian would be outraged...or is it just that you dislike the Left more?  Again, it's not their fault that Trump is picking these losers, I'm sure the Left would have picked almost anyone else. 

Libertarians are still Conservatives. Generally speaking that means supporting the rule of law and the US Constitution.

The far left (not just left of center) do not present choices most Libertarians (that I know anyway) would ever support.

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Uncle Sam
5 hours ago, Lilly said:

This stuff happens all the time in government, it's just that the far left are still trying to stop Trump from governing by any means possible. It's not going to work and it isn't going to play well in all those red states that cost the Democrats the election.

You know the funny thing. They are sabotaging themselves in the long run. All the backstabbing, constant lying and making **** up, constant violent rioting almost every week, and constant whining day after day; I don't think United States will ever vote for their candidates for a while.

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Uncle Sam
2 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Libertarians are still Conservatives. Generally speaking that means supporting the rule of law and the US Constitution.

The far left (not just left of center) do not present choices most Libertarians (that I know anyway) would ever support.

Exactly. I'm a Libertarian with some republican views and democratic views. We are kinda the middle grounds in things, but we are 100% behind the constitution on that matter. We don't appreciate any attack on the constitution from the left or right, we will fight to the death to protect our constitution. Most people don't realize we exist, they think there is only republican or democrat.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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Lilly
Just now, Uncle Sam said:

You know the funny thing. They are sabotaging themselves in the long run. All the backstabbing, constant lying and making **** up, constant violent rioting almost every week, and constant whining day after day; I don't think United States will ever vote for their candidates for a while.

I must admit, such behavior is not good for the Democratic party.

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Lilly

Interesting, some are now saying that General Flynn's part of the now infamous wiretapped conversation may have been illegally released. I wonder how this will play out if the NSA overstepped their legal bounds by releasing the information in the first place?

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OldNate
15 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Libertarians are still Conservatives. Generally speaking that means supporting the rule of law and the US Constitution.

The far left (not just left of center) do not present choices most Libertarians (that I know anyway) would ever support.

Ok, this is interesting, and thanks for the clarification, but doesn't really answer the question...was that deliberate? 

Also, there are plenty of Left leaning Libertarians...I took a political spectrum survey once that pegged me strongly in the Libertarian coordinate - though, also in the left.  X axis went from Left to Right, and Y went from Authoritarian to Libertarian...I'm sure you've seen it around, got popular there a little while ago.  So, we'd probably agree on some stuff...which is probably why I'm surprised at those on the Right (even if not Republican) don't seem too concerned about this.

3 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Interesting, some are now saying that General Flynn's part of the now infamous wiretapped conversation may have been illegally released. I wonder how this will play out if the NSA overstepped their legal bounds by releasing the information in the first place?

Definitely interesting, since I thought that pretty much anything goes when it comes to national security...there's probably a footnote in the Patriot Act that makes it ok.  :)

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Lilly
4 minutes ago, OldNate said:

Ok, this is interesting, and thanks for the clarification, but doesn't really answer the question...was that deliberate? 

 

In any party there are those who lean a bit more right or a bit more left. I'm neither amused by the far right who desire instilling laws designed to remove personal liberty nor the far left who desire to blatantly disregard the justified rule of law that protects our society. Is this the sort of answer you're looking for?

Currently, I see the far left advocating violent action, having a total disregard for the 1st Amendment and complete disrespect for the electoral process. It was actually President Obama who said, "Elections have consequences". I don't see the far left as being at all receptive to that statement.

 

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OldNate
3 minutes ago, Lilly said:

In any party there are those who lean a bit more right or a bit more left. I'm neither amused by the far right who desire instilling laws designed to remove personal liberty nor the far left who desire to blatantly disregard the justified rule of law that protects our society. Is this the sort of answer you're looking for?

Currently, I see the far left advocating violent action, having a total disregard for the 1st Amendment and complete disrespect for the electoral process. It was actually President Obama who said, "Elections have consequences". I don't see the far left as being at all receptive to that statement.

 

Mmm...no, that's not really what I was asking.  More specifically, should not both the Left and the Right be outraged at the disaster that has been the first days of the Trump administration?  The (demonstrable) lies, the breeches of trust, the conflicts of interest, the lack of competence (and constitutional understanding) in policy roll outs...it's been some new disaster pretty much every single day.  I understand partisanship account for a lot of the Right's complacency, but at some point doesn't duty outweigh partisanship? 

Perhaps I'm missing something, and there have been other president's who's first days have been so marked with controversy and failure, I'm open to that...can you tell me who, and what happened to them? 

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Claire.
1 hour ago, Uncle Sam said:

You know the funny thing. They are sabotaging themselves in the long run. All the backstabbing, constant lying and making **** up, constant violent rioting almost every week, and constant whining day after day; I don't think United States will ever vote for their candidates for a while.

Who are you referring to? The Democrats or the Republicans? :lol:

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Lilly
1 minute ago, OldNate said:

Mmm...no, that's not really what I was asking.  More specifically, should not both the Left and the Right be outraged at the disaster that has been the first days of the Trump administration? 

Why should those who voted for Trump and don't view the policies that you refer to as being "lies and breeches of trust and conflicts of interest and a lack of competence" as being reality be upset? Apparently, you just don't/can't understand that a very large demographic (look at the red states on the election map) simply don't see things your way. Can you tell me why you can't fathom why others simply don't think your way?

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Claire.
1 hour ago, MamaMia1981 said:

Just watched some Dems do a press conference.  They want to have a public hearing for Flynn to get to the bottom of it.....there was some insinuation that Trump knew about the phone call(s).  This could get super messy....if Trump gets impeached, Pence is the next man on deck, correct?

Correct. And yes, it probably will get super messy. It's not just the Democrats who want answers, Senate Republicans are also demanding a probe.

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OldNate
Just now, Lilly said:

Why should those who voted for Trump and don't view the policies that you refer to as being "lies and breeches of trust and conflicts of interest and a lack of competence" as being reality be upset? Apparently, you just don't/can't understand that a very large demographic (look at the red states on the election map) simply don't see things your way. Can you tell me why you can't fathom why others simply don't think your way?

Umm...because none of this is based on my opinion?  These are, again, demonstrable lies and breaches of trust and conflicts of interest.  Did Flynn not resign after admitting his dishonesty?  Did Conway not admit her dishonesty (albeit reframing as "misspeaking" or "alternative facts")?  Did Trump not turn his club patio into a situation room?  Was a judge not able to block the Muslim ban due to constitutional issues?  Do I need to continue? 

You seem to want to make this about my opinion, but these things don't tend to leave a ton of room for opinionated interpretation.  It's got nothing to do with whether or not you agree with Trump's policy, I can make all kinds of room for debate there.  This is about his behavior and actions, as well as the behavior and actions of his hand picked team.  And given the results of the popular vote, I'd say more Americans agree with me than not as to where the bar should be set on presidential behavior and actions.  ;) 

What I can't understand is why the Right, usually drumming their chests about being tough on politicians and tough on crime and tough on this and tough on that is giving the Trump administration the kid glove treatment, not regarding his policy, but rather his behavior and the way he implements his policy.  Can you help me with that, or do you cap out at simply sidestepping the issue and making me seem intolerant of other opinions?

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Clarakore

who_me_talking_zwq2fs_1.jpg

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Lilly
11 minutes ago, OldNate said:

Umm...because none of this is based on my opinion?  These are, again, demonstrable lies and breaches of trust and conflicts of interest.  Did Flynn not resign after admitting his dishonesty?  Did Conway not admit her dishonesty (albeit reframing as "misspeaking" or "alternative facts")?  Did Trump not turn his club patio into a situation room?  Was a judge not able to block the Muslim ban due to constitutional issues?  Do I need to continue? 

 

This is exactly my point, this is how you (and those on the left) view those things. Not everyone sees those situations in the same manner you do.

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Lilly
42 minutes ago, Claire. said:

Correct. And yes, it probably will get super messy. It's not just the Democrats who want answers, Senate Republicans are also demanding a probe.

At this point everyone wants to know what Flynn said to the Russian Ambassador.

Edited by Lilly
typo error
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OldNate
4 minutes ago, Lilly said:

This is exactly my point, this is how you (and those on the left) view those things. Not everyone sees those situations in the same manner you do.

Ok, I'm really struggling to follow you now, but I'm trying.   :)

So, are you saying that, for example, despite Flynn admitting he lied, he didn't, or that people on the Right are good with the fact that he lied?

Edited by OldNate
Added a smiley face, because I don't want to appear overly aggressive. :)
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Lilly
Just now, OldNate said:

Ok, I'm really struggling to follow you now, but I'm trying. 

So, are you saying that, for example, despite Flynn admitting he lied, he didn't, or that people on the Right are good with the fact that he lied?

No one is saying that Flynn didn't lie...for goodness sakes the man just admitted he lied to VP Pence.

And, no, you're not struggling to comprehend me (unless English is your second language?). Many people simply do not see Trump as being the lying/racist/bigoted 'second coming of Hitler' that the far left has been making him out to be. Many people (this may come as a shock to you) actually agree with Trump's position on immigration, national security, taxation, failure of Obamacare, the economy etc.

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OldNate
Just now, Lilly said:

No one is saying that Flynn didn't lie...for goodness sakes the man just admitted he lied to VP Pence.

And, no, you're not struggling to comprehend me (unless English is your second language?). Many people simply do not see Trump as being the lying/racist/bigoted 'second coming of Hitler' that the far left has been making him out to be. Many people (this may come as a shock to you) actually agree with Trump's position on immigration, national security, taxation, failure of Obamacare, the economy etc.

Calm down, Lilly, you seem to be getting frustrated here, this is a friendly conversation.  :):)  English is my first language.  I think the problem with our communication is that you keep talking about things that have nothing to do with what I'm saying.  I said there's tons of room for difference of opinion on policy, but lying?  Conflicts of interest?  Incompetence in policy *roll out*, so bad that the executive order he trotted out in front of the media got sent to the corner like a toddler acting out?  That is specifically what I'm asking about, not policy. 

Clinton was impeached (albeit a failed attempt, I know) for lying and laying about, it had nothing to do with policy.  It was actions and behavior.  There is no difference of opinion to fight over, what happened, happened.  The question is: is the Right good with all of this, and if so, why?  You can't keep saying difference of opinion on policy, because this has *nothing to do with policy*...  Either you're good with this behavior or you're not.   

Wanna try again?  :) 

 

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Lilly
2 minutes ago, OldNate said:

Calm down, Lilly...

 

Might be a good idea not to tell me how to feel (just a friendly suggestion).

My purpose in posting here is not to provide answers for all your questions...and it's frustrating to be constantly expected to do so.

Edited by Lilly
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Uncle Sam
12 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Might be a good idea not to tell me how to feel (just a friendly suggestion).

My purpose in posting here is not to provide answers for all your questions...and it's frustrating to be constantly expected to do so.

Have you checked over at Yahoo.com... they are bashing trump and anyone close to him in every way possible. This isn't politics anymore, it is personal.

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Lilly
5 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

Have you checked over at Yahoo.com... they are bashing trump and anyone close to him in every way possible. This isn't politics anymore, it is personal.

Exactly, General Flynn's bad choice of behavior has become another rallying point for the far left to attack President Trump.  

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OldNate
17 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Might be a good idea not to tell me how to feel (just a friendly suggestion).

My purpose in posting here is not to provide answers for all your questions...and it's frustrating to be constantly expected to do so.

Ok, Lily, you're probably right...all the best.  :)

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Odin11
37 minutes ago, Lilly said:

No one is saying that Flynn didn't lie...for goodness sakes the man just admitted he lied to VP Pence.

And, no, you're not struggling to comprehend me (unless English is your second language?). Many people simply do not see Trump as being the lying/racist/bigoted 'second coming of Hitler' that the far left has been making him out to be. Many people (this may come as a shock to you) actually agree with Trump's position on immigration, national security, taxation, failure of Obamacare, the economy etc.

  OldNate is right, you seem to be deliberately avoiding the lies that Trump has been caught out on. So just keep on ignoring facts. 

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Claire.
1 minute ago, Lilly said:

Exactly, General Flynn's bad choice of behavior has become another rallying point for the far left to attack President Trump.  

Why pick someone who's into weird conspiracy theories, anti-Muslim, cozy with Putin, and.... no wait...

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