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taniwha

Is God become the Universe?

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Why keep trying to force or shoehorn God in?

Whats the need associated with?

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I don't know if God became the universe since to me there's such a strong correlation between the two, where do you put the distinction? I think when it comes to the universe there is no creator which isn't its own creation, in the sense that the universe simply is and is all that ever existed no matter which form it takes and how many layers it is composed of (material and program), depends on what you mean by Universe, just the observable one, the material part ?

I saw an interview of an occidental woman who became a shaman (it's in french but here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UUtan9aLTY )
For anyone who understands french or if there are good enough subtitles please do watch it, she explains her experience and some scientifical tests she had made on her abilities, and at some point she says that the human brain is like a bandwidth and that it allows only a small part of the perceptions we could have to enter and be treated, this could actualy explain many things like the 6th sense, extrasensorial perceptions, memories that weren't ours, maybe that we pick up from some sort of universal consciousness, which I believe is common to all humans and only separated by the body.

What I'm trying to get at with this is everything including us is the universe to me, there's no creator that became anything, our consciousness, as well as every living things' consciousness is part of a whole undivided consciousness, just like the material realm looks like it's separated while in fact it isn't : the whole everything is energy thing : https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight
Every consciousness is one consciousness even though they seem separated, consciousness being the driving force and the choice maker (the whole question of free will, and the problem of 50% probabilities here)

I've also often thought about computers perfectly representing the universe : A program and something that drives it ? So besides the driving energy they're be some kind of idea plane, or program that holds a lot of stuff (that's some clear explanation there) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akasha ??

Even though quantum theory and the thing about light being in small packs and the entire universe looking like it's just small separate things  is making me doubt I guess maybe they're still an illusion of separation, I really don't know.

I don't know if this is any useful or anything, just adding up.

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In

Vedantic Hinduism, Akasha means the basis and essence of all things in the material world...

From Xurganmoth's above link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akasha

All seemingly separate elements of the material world operate together as a whole, as one complete mechanism, if I can use that word. There may be a more fundamental level of existence from which the material universe emerges. This doesn't answer the basic question of where did existence come from, as we can ask, where did this fundamental level originate?

The Law of the Ants states that: "Everything that is Forbidden is Mandatory.: Perhaps this is a kind of answer. Everything that can exist must exist, sort of idea. Some could call this essencial principle God, but that's up to the individual perspective.

 

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re: UNIVERSE, We're lucky being on this blue marble, this nice BUBBLE. if its anything like trekking across the wilderness its exceptionally harsh beyond imagination out there.  At least , well maybe,  and that's a big one, we have intelligence, BRAIN POWER with our systems to help us and we'll need it for testing of the waters so to speak in the next few hundred years.  I mention maybe because of ever exploding pop., which could level off, or continue this exponential business.  If that's the case we'll need another blue marble to play on YEY!

Edited by MWoo7
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4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:

I don't know if God became the universe since to me there's such a strong correlation between the two, where do you put the distinction?

Yes, the grammatical arrangement of the thread title is a little tricky. 

4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:

 

I think when it comes to the universe there is no creator which isn't its own creation, in the sense that the universe simply is and is all that ever existed no matter which form it takes and how many layers it is composed of (material and program), depends on what you mean by Universe, just the observable one, the material part ?

Indeed, and that is why I earlier postulated that a 'creator God' concept need not enter into Pantheism .... but just as our body is our own universe (in a way) , we are the 'god' of it and we are composed of it, the body (as well as other things ) is us . But  we know we originally were 'born of parents'  , so we try to extend that concept to 'god concepts' and want to know where God or the Universe 'came from' .

4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:


I saw an interview of an occidental woman who became a shaman (it's in french but here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UUtan9aLTY )
For anyone who understands french or if there are good enough subtitles please do watch it, she explains her experience and some scientifical tests she had made on her abilities, and at some point she says that the human brain is like a bandwidth and that it allows only a small part of the perceptions we could have to enter and be treated,

It has to be like that !  On many levels,  we mask ourselves from many of the impressions that come to us, otherwise it would be a cacaphony of signals and we would overload and not be able to concentrate or focus on specific things .

4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:

this could actualy explain many things like the 6th sense, extrasensorial perceptions, memories that weren't ours, maybe that we pick up from some sort of universal consciousness, which I believe is common to all humans and only separated by the body.

You might find Exo-psychology interesting ; it models  the human brain and consciousness on 8 'mini-brains' likened to computer programs with interacting functions, on each level, as well as many things ( like drug  and environmental triggers, stages in individual and social collective development, human evolution and the location of consciousness )  on the 'location of consciousness' for each level; eg.  the lowest form ' the 'bio-survival' ( friend or foe - defend or flee ) consciousness is shared by many animals and is located in humans in the primal areas of the brain stem, the 'neuro genetic level' , has 'consciousness' located  within the cell or DNA 'memory'  ( perhaps an important area for Shamanic experience ? ), yet when we get to level 8 , consciousness is described as being  ' non-local ' , which could be an explanation of your '6th sense' process above .

4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:

What I'm trying to get at with this is everything including us is the universe to me, there's no creator that became anything, our consciousness, as well as every living things' consciousness is part of a whole undivided consciousness,

Ahaaa !   When you include every living things' consciousness  that opens things up beyond circuit 8 and Exo-psychology  and we enter the (old ) world of the 'Anima Mundi ' ... the 'Soul of the World'  (and here the meaning of  ' soul '   is the old more philosophical meaning  * , other the modern ' spirit / ghost '  type of 'soul' .

*  if unfamiliar here is a good source for starting off      http://www.harpur.org/PJCHsecretfire.htm

4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:

just like the material realm looks like it's separated while in fact it isn't : the whole everything is energy thing : https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight
Every consciousness is one consciousness even though they seem separated, consciousness being the driving force and the choice maker (the whole question of free will, and the problem of 50% probabilities here)

I can agree with that .... except  ....  there are levels of that consciousness and the 'lower' we sink down into them, the less connected they are ; eg, the bio survival level 1 circuit is totally self focused , by the time we evolve (individually and collectively ) to C4 - the socio sexual circuit -  personal and social connections are being made -   one of the physical triggers to C8 is said to be 'global consciousness '  and a trigger of that was when the first Earth in space pics were released . 

4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:

I've also often thought about computers perfectly representing the universe : A program and something that drives it ? So besides the driving energy they're be some kind of idea plane, or program that holds a lot of stuff (that's some clear explanation there) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akasha ??

Mhe ... akhasha is very old hat and post Victorian occult ... we have gone a long way since then, and it has never been backed up by anything other than postulation and people believing teachers and gurus that supposedly  'looked into it '  ( Like Blavatsky, Steiner,  Cayce,  etc ) ... but yes, the computer analogy is strongly made in Exo-psychology .

4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:

Even though quantum theory and the thing about light being in small packs and the entire universe looking like it's just small separate things  is making me doubt I guess maybe they're still an illusion of separation, I really don't know.

Maybe separation  and non-separation are both illusions ?  However, many mystical teachings extol unity ( rather than what we are 'stuck' in - duality ) as the higher or more universal state , like Daoism ... however, even within Daoism I think the answer is better expressed as a multi-level and number expression, that originates in singularity but is expressed in multiple forms but always within a dualistic framework ;



" The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.

The ten thousand things carry yin and embrace yang.
They achieve harmony by combining these forces." 

 

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 42
 

and in many cases quantum physics seems to back that up   ;) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersymmetry

 

4 hours ago, Xurganmoth said:

I don't know if this is any useful or anything, just adding up.

I think its very useful, especially to you .... you just need to keep working on the 'equation' and move along towards the      =       :) 

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4 hours ago, MWoo7 said:

re: UNIVERSE, We're lucky being on this blue marble, this nice BUBBLE. if its anything like trekking across the wilderness its exceptionally harsh beyond imagination out there.  At least , well maybe,  and that's a big one, we have intelligence, BRAIN POWER with our systems to help us and we'll need it for testing of the waters so to speak in the next few hundred years.  I mention maybe because of ever exploding pop., which could level off, or continue this exponential business.  If that's the case we'll need another blue marble to play on YEY!

I suggest  the level down on the population approach ...... spare blue marbles are pretty rare !  

For once we hit the wall ... cant just go throw it away and buy a new one    ( I mean we already hitting the wall with that too, we just too dumb to do anything about it !   ; 

 

 

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2 hours ago, back to earth said:

we just too dumb to do anything about it !

HAHAHAHAHAHA!   Come now there has to be mad scientists working on it teeeeeheeahahhahahahaa !

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Jesus -That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one

 

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Not preechin' there are ya Docy ? 

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Perhaps God is God.

No beginning, no end.

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God is what we make of him and if he does exist we're all, probably, way off the mark.

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On 2/11/2017 at 10:45 AM, ChaosRose said:

Qabalah basically holds that everything here is a reflection of the divine. The premise is that there were these 3 types of nothing out of which everything emanated. There was nothing, nothing, and nothing, and then there was something, and the something wanted to know what it was, so it projected itself. 

There you have it. The answer to the ultimate question. And the answer is about as informative as 42. 

Yes that is the answer when you practice Kabbalah meditations. 

But to make it easier I would substitute the word nothing to no thing, as in pertaining to no thing in the material realms.  

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yeah, but 'making it easier '  ( the God damn bane of the modern IT world !  <_< )  totally wrecks it !  and leads away from what it said originally  to make it sound even less informative than 42 . 

It isnt  3 types of nothing  or no thing ; its  'ain' ,  'ain soph'  and 'ain soph aur '   .... I mean I could make it simple and say   ;  that means  'stuff '  not real ' nothing '  . Just like in quantum physics , we could say , there is no ' void  '  ,  nothingness contains energy and potential ... if you dont understand the QP physics ... even just a little .....   such terms and concept make little sense  . 

The more we understand each ( true )  concept   ( like Qabbalah and Quantum Physics ), the more similar they are . 

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Shoot I"M TRYING TO GET OUT OF HERE BUT SOME OF THIS IS JUST TOOO GOOD ! like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like

Edited by MWoo7
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13 minutes ago, MWoo7 said:

Shoot I"M TRYING TO GET OUT OF HERE BUT SOME OF THIS IS JUST TOOO GOOD ! like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like like, like, like

Yeah, that feeling :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:!!!

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On 15/02/2017 at 5:17 AM, Xurganmoth said:


I've also often thought about computers perfectly representing the universe : A program and something that drives it ? So besides the driving energy they're be some kind of idea plane, or program that holds a lot of stuff (that's some clear explanation there) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akasha ??


I don't know if this is any useful or anything, just adding up.

Technology is moving ahead rapidly, perhaps even the computer simulation model will soon be obsolete?

One grain in a wheatfield of possibilities.

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On 15/02/2017 at 5:47 AM, StarMountainKid said:

 

 

From Xurganmoth's above link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akasha

All seemingly separate elements of the material world operate together as a whole, as one complete mechanism, if I can use that word. There may be a more fundamental level of existence from which the material universe emerges. This doesn't answer the basic question of where did existence come from, as we can ask, where did this fundamental level originate?

The Law of the Ants states that: "Everything that is Forbidden is Mandatory.: Perhaps this is a kind of answer. Everything that can exist must exist, sort of idea. Some could call this essencial principle God, but that's up to the individual perspective.

 

Law of the Ants?  Do you mean this?

Quote

 

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The Law of the Ants, "Everything that is Forbidden is Mandatory" is from T. H. White's novel, 'The Once and Future King'.

Merlin turns young Arthur into an ant in an ant colony as part as his education. I like the idea applied to the universe or multi-verse or whatever Existence is. If a universe can happen it will happen. Where did this Law come from is a meaningless question as posed by the universe itself (us).

An ant would not ask such a question because they are one with this Law. We can ask this question due to our higher intellect, but we are one with this Law, as well, and it is a meaningless question for us to ask because we are also a result of the Law, and are as equally limited in our perspective.

If we could ask a fish what is water, the fish would not know what we are talking about. Fish and water are one, and a fishy question of where water came from, fish would have no answer. "I am water, water is me. We just are." It is a similar Law in that it is Evident, and as such it is questionless. .

 

 

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Its a strange law / I was thinking of the other variation   'Hassini's Creed '  ... it became   'a thing ' for a while . 

' Nothing is true, everything is permitted. '   

Then there is the  Totalitarian  'end game ' ; 

' Everything not forbidden is compulsory  .....  everything not compulsory is forbidden '

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Principia_Discordia

 

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Surely a fish knows what water is ....... they jump out of it into the air and back in again ..... they haul themselves up on to theland and can wiggle from puddle to puddle     ...   they    .....   :)  

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1 minute ago, back to earth said:

Surely a fish knows what water is ....... they jump out of it into the air and back in again ..... they haul themselves up on to theland and can wiggle from puddle to puddle     ...   they    .....   :)  

A fish out of water is no longer fish.

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The topic is speculation, and in my opinion not very good speculation.  There is no rational reason to think such a thing and so it belongs in the realm of wishful thinking.

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40 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

A fish out of water is no longer fish.

Tell that to this guy!!

Mudskippers have feelings too you know. ;) 

 

mudskippers_480x360.jpg

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1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Tell that to this guy!!

Mudskippers have feelings too you know. ;) 

I would guess mudskippers are right on the edge -- the beginning of the evolution of the ability to have feelings (sentience). The latest research I am aware of pertains to chemical pathways linked to the "experience" of sensations and emotions, and it seems to be mostly limited to mammals and birds.

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