pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #76 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Show me proof that God doesn't exist. The standard rebuttal is: "Show me proof that God does exist" So, we have a problem. Neither position can offer proof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #77 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Both theists and atheists must, by default, operate under "faith", as there is no proof one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #78 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Either position is rationally screwed, because either position is inherently indefensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted February 24, 2017 Author #79 Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 22/02/2017 at 1:43 AM, cluey said: The quilted multiverse theory states that the universe is infinite and therefore contains segments identical to the ones we inhabit.About 10/10/120 light years.There could be another you on another earth..... Hmmm Multifaceted universes? Could be. it's easy to get carried away, it's another way of describing this universe. We should not loose sight of that don't you think? I believe a multiverse would easily fit within the Ultraverse.... But I wish there were easier ways to access the universe, Maybe that's why I feel about God being the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #80 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I feel that we must consider extra "dimensions" to be an integral part of Reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted February 24, 2017 Author #81 Share Posted February 24, 2017 24 minutes ago, pallidin said: Show me proof that God doesn't exist. The standard rebuttal is: "Show me proof that God does exist" So, we have a problem. Neither position can offer proof. We can only rely on instinct. We know there exists something greater than ourselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted February 24, 2017 Author #82 Share Posted February 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, pallidin said: I feel that we must consider extra "dimensions" to be an integral part of Reality. Yes. For certain we cannot turn a blind eye on the unknown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #83 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted February 24, 2017 Author #84 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, DieChecker said: Did Copernicus, or Aristotle, get as close to describing the creation of the universe? This is a very good question, remarkable even. Even today, with all the benefits of hindsight and technology, the creation of the universe remains only theory. The mystery endures. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted February 24, 2017 Author #85 Share Posted February 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, pallidin said: Thanks for the much needed drinks break Pallidin! cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #86 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I would like for someone, anyone, to explain the "Big Bang" The entirety of our universe... All our stars, planets, galaxies, etc, from an initial spacial frame no larger than a loaf of bread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted February 24, 2017 Author #87 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, pallidin said: Either position is rationally screwed, because either position is inherently indefensible. God does not play chess with the universe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted February 24, 2017 Author #88 Share Posted February 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, pallidin said: I would like for someone, anyone, to explain the "Big Bang" The entirety of our universe... All our stars, planets, galaxies, etc, from an initial spacial frame no larger than a loaf of bread. I second that. To me it's like the universe is a giant eye, The window to the soul of God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 24, 2017 #89 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 hours ago, pallidin said: Show me proof that God doesn't exist. The standard rebuttal is: "Show me proof that God does exist" So, we have a problem. Neither position can offer proof. The problem is you don't understand the burden of proof. Show me proof that Zeus doesn't throw lightning bolts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted February 24, 2017 Author #90 Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 23/02/2017 at 2:34 PM, psyche101 said: There has to be other life. Considering us as more important makes God Petty and small. Maybe we just call that other life God? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #91 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Rlyeh said: The problem is you don't understand the burden of proof. Show me proof that Zeus doesn't throw lightning bolts. The burden of proof appears not to be towards each other, rather, towards ourselves. Perhaps that is essentially true in all such matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #92 Share Posted February 24, 2017 For one to say "Ah, there is no Zeus, thus God can not exist" is like saying... "Look, it's a cloudy day, the Sun must not exist" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 24, 2017 #93 Share Posted February 24, 2017 There was this ant crawling across the sidewalk. "Look at me!, the ant proclaims, waving it's limbs in puffy proudness. A great shadow appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted February 24, 2017 #94 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, pallidin said: For one to say "Ah, there is no Zeus, thus God can not exist" is like saying... "Look, it's a cloudy day, the Sun must not exist" Except no one said that and that's not how evidence works. The sun can be verified on a cloudy day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 24, 2017 #95 Share Posted February 24, 2017 7 hours ago, Rlyeh said: Parts of Genesis was written by different authors, Probably, based on style and content, but not according to Jewish Tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 24, 2017 #96 Share Posted February 24, 2017 7 hours ago, psyche101 said: But they are, religion claims he created the earth and everything on and in it. Yes. But, still God doesn't speak to every object on Earth. If we want to talk life in space... How about this.... Genesis 1-6: “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.”... "God called the vault “sky.”" Genesis 1-16: "God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars." Genesis 1-20: “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” So, the waters were separated, but it doesn't say that the sky, and water later populated is only the Earth waters... The outer waters, and outer sky could be seen as being included as "teeming with living creatures". Thus, life in space? Quote A sheep herder could not envisage that God made "another Earth"? Honestly hard to believe. Are there any other ancient incidents of people actually believing in other planets? I think the concept might have been too much for him to comprehend. Quote It does not have remarkable correlations, it has hindsight that uses poetic licence to loosely piece together a matching description. Both Copernicus and Aristotle contributed to the understanding - the shoulders of giants, their work was expanded upon, not used in hindsight. There can be no Correlation in hindsight? That's preposterous. I'd say that reexamination of evidence/data/reports in hindsight doesn't discount whatever Conclusions might be drawn. I think you are drawing a distinction simply to defend your beliefs. If someone goes to ancient Copernicus and re-imagines what he was thinking, that's simply trying to build on science. If one does that for Moses, it is rubbish hindsight handwaving? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 24, 2017 #97 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, pallidin said: Show me proof that God doesn't exist. The standard rebuttal is: "Show me proof that God does exist" So, we have a problem. Neither position can offer proof. I've actually witnessed "proof" of God, or at least the Miraculous. But when confronted with such things, the skeptics ask to repeat the situation, or it never happened. To repeat such things is like asking for a meteor to fly the same exact path on demand. Or they simply point at random chance. When confronted with situations that would be tens of thousand to one in occurrence, happening repeatedly, and correlating heavily to prayers of involved people, they still MUST stick with their answer of Random Chance, or their personal understanding of the universe would collapse. Odds of Billions, or even Trillions, to one is more acceptable then the possibility of someone praying and something happening as a result. It is such evidence that leads otherwise Rational, Logical, Intelligent people (Like myself ) to actually practice religion, and believe in the presence of a supernatural deity. Edited February 24, 2017 by DieChecker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarMountainKid Posted February 24, 2017 #98 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Who knows God's plan for this planet? The High Priest’s voice rang out sharply and echoed loudly throughout the congregation. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And God saw that it was good!” Applause rang harshly through the Temple. “And God said, ‘Let there be light’, and there was light. And God saw that it was good!” (Applause) “And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness God called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning. And God said, ‘Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear’. And it was so!” (Applause) “And God said, ‘Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth’. And it was so!” (Applause) “And God made two great lights, the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. God also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good! (Applause) “Then God made mankind, and God said, ‘Let man make machines so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, and over all the wild animals of the land’. And it was so!” (Applause) “And God blessed the machines and said to them, ‘Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over every living creature that moves on the ground!’” (Applause) “And God saw all that God had made, and God saw that it was very good!” (Applause) After the sermon ended, we all shuffled out of the Temple, some as best they could, into the bright sunlight of a fresh new morning. We looked around at what God had created through us, God’s beloved machines, and we saw that it was good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 27, 2017 #99 Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 2/24/2017 at 5:22 PM, pallidin said: Show me proof that God doesn't exist. The standard rebuttal is: "Show me proof that God does exist" So, we have a problem. Neither position can offer proof. That is of God. Not a natural Universe, that proof has been given to you in that respect, but for some strange reason, you refuse to acknowledge that it exists. We have proof of a natural Universe. Many say, "well I do not accept that, I like the God story better, it must be true". Which is exactly what your post is saying. Now where do you propose we go from there? If I say Unicorns live on the far side of the moon and live in craters and only eact moon moss and visit the earth every 1,800 years, can you prove it is not true? That is where we are with God. A silly fable with no substance that does not conform to the discoveries that tell us who things came to be. Some people insist the Magical Unicorn or God in this instance still exists no matter what. When you can find a way to provide solid evidence that Unicorns do not live on the far side of the moon in deep craters, eat moon moss and visit the earth every 1,800 years, then we will have the method to prove a negative, and that God does not exist. It is not an even playing ground. We do have evidence for a natural Universe, we have handed down fables for God. That many cannot let go of that adult security blanket does not mean God exists, or that there is good reason to believe such an entity does at all. God and Unicorns, they all live in the same place. The realm of the negative claim. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted February 27, 2017 #100 Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 2/24/2017 at 5:28 PM, pallidin said: Both theists and atheists must, by default, operate under "faith", as there is no proof one way or the other. That is simply not true, I have shown you in detail how a difference of potential at a quantum level allows for virtual particles to exist long enough to interact and let matter come to be. Want proof? Here you go, this is "proof" of a natural Universe - how it all works. No faith required. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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