symbol

[lotus_spring]

If you wanna be really strict about it, the original swastika is counter clockwise, while the nazi one is clockwise. There, problem solved.

Isn't really so, for it rotates both ways.the diff between swatika and Nazi's is described above.

Edited January 3, 2005 by lotus_spring

[Erikl]

All check this website:

http://www.swastika-info.com/

As for my opinion, I think that although this symbol used to mean well (even for us Jews), the Nazi abuse of that symbol will not be forgotten quickly.

Further - the fact that neo-Nazi groups use all kinds of variations to the Nazi swastika renders it almost impossible to use any shape similar to that as a non-Nazi symbol.

For me, this symbol will forever mean death, destruction and evil.

Even more so when I am fully aware what that symbol used to mean.

It only emphesizes the fact that the Nazi evilness was as universall as the symbol which they've abused.

[riotboy555]

here's a fun fact: the germans don't teach about Nazi Germany to their students now. they don't go through it and act like nothing happened.

Edited January 3, 2005 by riotboy555

[+joc]

let me take your family name, change my name to that, and then become more infamous then hitler and stalin combined

then tell me how you will feel if someone told you that you should change your last name because it is now related to much evil

Who said anything about changing their flag, picture, whatever it is?

The fact remains that the Nazis co-opted the symbol and to the majority of people in the world today, a swastika is symbolic of the Nazi regime.

As for my opinion, I think that although this symbol used to mean well (even for us Jews), the Nazi abuse of that symbol will not be forgotten quickly.

One might also say it will NEVER be forgotten....One hundred years from now the swastika will still be associated with Nazis....It is a permanent and irrevocable consequence of the evil of that regime...

....so I reiterate: The original meaning of the symbol is irrelevant.

[Erikl]

here's a fun fact: the germans don't teach about Nazi Germany to their students now. they don't go through it and act like nothing happened.

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I find this fact very disturbing, and somewhat farfetched...

do you have any sources for that?

If it's true, then it is very serious and should be dealt with immedietly.

[Erikl]

One might also say it will NEVER be forgotten....One hundred years from now the swastika will still be associated with Nazis....It is a permanent and irrevocable consequence of the evil of that regime...

....so I reiterate: The original meaning of the symbol is irrelevant.

A hundred years is nothing!

I would be surprised if it'll stay that for way for 500, maybe even 1000 years ...

[Erikl]

And here's something very interesting:

Lisa Raphael, a survivor of the Holocaust gives a speech at UN Anti-Torture Day's Event on University of South Florida Campus, about the use of the Swastika-Symbol in the Falun Gong Movement.

Speech of Lisa Raphael

My name is Lisa Raphael.

As a survivor of the Holocaust, I could never have imagined that I would find myself at a public meeting in support of a practice whose central symbol is the swastika!

Due to my personal history, the swastika in the past has only reminded me of mine, and my family's persecution at the hand of the Nazis. Yet I am here today BECAUSE of the swastika and what it truly represents.

I've been an active seeker of spiritual truth for more than 20 years. I was drawn to the peace and calm of the practice of Falun Gong intuitively, as I watched practitioners in the park near my home. Initially, the discovery that the central symbol is a swastika was alarming. But now I understand the profound implications.

The practice of Falun Gong revolves around the principles of truth, compassion and tolerance.

The Nazis took an ancient symbol-- it has been found carved in caves as old as 20,000 years ago - and distorted it just as they distorted the truth of everything they touched. The Nazi version of the swastika is the reverse of the original, ancient one. The original swastika, which is at the center of the Falun Gong emblem -has been associated with good fortune, well-being, the sun, and the light of spiritual truth for thousands of years. It frequently appears on statues of the Buddha. In fact the swastika in sanskrit means literally, well-being, positive being. The reverse swastika in sanskrit represents darkness, misfortune, and suffering.

There is a kind of profound symmetry in the circumstance that the reversed swastika of the Nazis - true to its sanskrit meaning... symbolizes the persecution and suffering of innocents for the purpose of suppressing any truth that did not agree with the "party line"...

And that the principles of the original swastika, the principles of truth, compassion and tolerance at the heart of Falun Gong are bringing forth similar persecution and torture of those who do not agree with the current "party line" in China.

I'm here tonight not because I need to hear any more about persecution and torture of innocent victims of totalitarian regimes. I have lived through enough of this directly and indirectly that I frankly would rather have nothing more to do with it. But I cannot, either, NOT stand up in support of the victims of such torture and persecution.

The persecution in Europe could never have happened if the rest of the world had not stayed blind to it. Most countries, including this one, ignored the reports and accounts of these persecutions, out of short-sightedness. "What has this to do with us?" we said.

"That is going on over there. Besides, probably they have good reason to be cracking down on all those people. The Third Reich is a powerful ally and wonderful trading partner. What they are doing in their own countries is not our business."

Today, with the improved communications, it is not as easy to stay blind to what is going on, or to ignore the reports. But it is just as easy to think it has nothing to do with me, or us.

The principle behind the growing number of memorials and programs that honor Holocaust Victims is "never again." But it IS happening again, and has continued to happen.

We must not stay blind this time.

We must not kid ourselves into thinking that what happens elsewhere in the world is not our business.

I urge each of you to do whatever you can to protest the actions of the Chinese government towards practitioners of Falun Gong.

One voice CAN count.

Several voices together CAN make a difference.

Thank you.

Link to the original article

Edited January 3, 2005 by Erikl

[lotus_spring]

One might also say it will NEVER be forgotten....One hundred years from now the swastika will still be associated with Nazis....It is a permanent and irrevocable consequence of the evil of that regime...

Haha..So now the symbol has been use in a righteous way (for Falun Gong), so thereafter, the swastika symbol will forever be a righteous one again..I can say, and the Nazi's will be an old forgotten one. And you say, 'even if it's for an evil cause, I will treat it as a righteous one.'

I hardly believe this symbol to westerners would be seen as an evil portrayal, due to the fact that you are more influenced by politic more than spiritual faith. (For I am a Chinese)

Do you know?

The cross was used once to signify criminal, and now it has been used to signify Christian faith, the basis is to look at the symbol without any thought idea, and you will see the true meaning of symbols and their hidden connotations. You do not need to rely on your narrow one sided concept also.

Thanks Erikl for the post.

Edited January 4, 2005 by lotus_spring

[pete juffalo]

tell me how you feel

429101[/snapback]

gay

and what you see.

adolf hitler

[Putte]

If you wanna be really strict about it, the original swastika is counter clockwise, while the nazi one is clockwise. There, problem solved.

Isn't really so, for it rotates both ways.the diff between swatika and Nazi's is described above.

434065[/snapback]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info

[LunarWarrior]

The Nazi's or Hitler never intended for the swastika to mean hatred or anything like that. In German, it literary means Peace (and prosperity). When Hitler was growing up he became very poor and lived on the streets. He stayed in a Jewish neighborhood and saw all of the Jewish families spend large amounts of money, but none offered him any help. This stemmed his hatred for the Jews. He believed that if he eliminated all the the Jews, the would could experience Peace. So he used the sign of peace. Many jewish people I explain this to get very puffy about the situation...religions....bla who needs em.

[+joc]

Putte,

If most of the world views the swastika as a symbol for Nazi....why not be a little less 'uncaring' and just use the yen and yang symbol?

[lotus_spring]

There are those who used the yin-yang symbol for evil purpose, they can be called the demonic Tao. Like wise for the swastika symbol, it can also be used unrighteously.

Edited January 5, 2005 by lotus_spring

[Erikl]

The Nazi's or Hitler never intended for the swastika to mean hatred or anything like that.

That is somewhat untrue... they wanted the swastika to be the symbol of the new Aryan "super nation" lead by German "super humans" (ubermentsch).

As this theory includes basic hatred towards the "infreor" races, it does indirectly reflects hatred.

In German, it literary means Peace (and prosperity).

Rubbish. In German, there is no such word as "swastika". It is called "hukencruez", meaning "hooked cross" (I know this becaused Hebrew took it from German. In Hebrew, the swastika is also called "hooked cross").

The word "swastika" itself is from Sanskrit, a very ancient Indian language. In that language, swastika indeed means "good luck", "good will" etc.

When Hitler was growing up he became very poor and lived on the streets. He stayed in a Jewish neighborhood and saw all of the Jewish families spend large amounts of money, but none offered him any help. This stemmed his hatred for the Jews. He believed that if he eliminated all the the Jews, the would could experience Peace. So he used the sign of peace. Many jewish people I explain this to get very puffy about the situation...religions....bla who needs em.

They probably get "puffy" because this is total rubbish and twisted version of history.Yes, Hitler was poor as a yound adult. He tried his luck to be an artist in Viena, but was kicked from the Art school because he was unable to draw humans (some say it's because his father used to beat him).

He then stayed on the streets of Viena, where there were many "foreigners" (like Poles, Jews, Hungarians, Sebs... remember, Viena at the time was the capital of the Austro-Hungrarian empire, a multi-ethnical empire).

A Jewish family did take him in - which is the exact opposite of your version of history - and gave him food and shelter for a while.

But when he wandered around the streets of Vienas, he came across some anti-Semitic speechers (Viena was one of the main "capital cities" of anti-Semitism, together with St. Petersburg and Paris of that time) and publishers in the street. He then listened to their ideas, and started to believe in them.

Later on he joined the military, got his injury from gas attack, came to Munich, joined the National Socialist Workers part, and the rest is known history ...

Edited January 5, 2005 by Erikl

[SilverCougar]

let me take your family name, change my name to that, and then become more infamous then hitler and stalin combined

then tell me how you will feel if someone told you that you should change your last name because it is now related to much evil

Who said anything about changing their flag, picture, whatever it is?

The fact remains that the Nazis co-opted the symbol and to the majority of people in the world today, a swastika is symbolic of the Nazi regime.

As for my opinion, I think that although this symbol used to mean well (even for us Jews), the Nazi abuse of that symbol will not be forgotten quickly.

One might also say it will NEVER be forgotten....One hundred years from now the swastika will still be associated with Nazis....It is a permanent and irrevocable consequence of the evil of that regime...

....so I reiterate: The original meaning of the symbol is irrelevant.

434716[/snapback]

Mainly because people won't let it go... And still let it spark up a bad taint. Punk arsh kids still use it as a shock value, because they know it'll rile people up... and you're (among other people) letting them.