Who were the Hyksos?

[Hanslune]

Came across this article and it brought to mind the many arguments over who, what or whom the Hyksos were.

http://asorblog.org/invaders-of-obscure-race-understanding-the-hyksos/

Quote

As such, the rise of the Hyksos can no longer be seen as an invasion by an ‘obscure race.’ There was no invasion; rather, people gradually and peacefully entered Egypt throughout the Middle Kingdom. By the end of the Thirteenth Dynasty, native Egyptian administration had weakened, control over the Delta was lost and Egypt became fragmented. In turn, this allowed Tell el-Dab’a’s increasingly rich and powerful lords to become independent, establishing the Fifteenth Dynasty. As they provided prosperity and security, the population of their capital increased, the settlement expanded, and additional sites in the Delta were developed, their inhabitants also bearing mixed Egyptian-Levantine traits. The Hyksos became a formidable force in the Mediterranean, managing both local and regional trade across land and sea.

So who were they?

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Hanslune

[Essan]

Atlanteans :D

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

29 minutes ago, Essan said:

Atlanteans

Sir has had enough to drink.

[kmt_sesh]

The article melds very well with my own understanding. Nice find. Imagine that: something reliable from the Internet.

Manetho gave us the Greek derivation "Hyksos" and a description of events long accepted in academia. But as we know in modern scholarship, like many writers of his time Manetho's accounts are often wildly inaccurate. To be fair, though, no one can be sure how consistently wrong Manetho himself was or how badly misrepresented his accounts may have been in Josephus' writings.

There was no great, sweeping, violent invasion. Rather, as the article describes, there were waves of migration and cultural absorption beginning in the Middle Kingdom. The latter migrations were composed of warrior castes, but there is no strong evidence they came as warriors.

Who the Hyksos were is not so mysterious as some UM posters seem to think. There is plentiful evidence in Avaris and other Hyksos sites in Lower Egypt. Art styles, architectural styles, burial customs, ceramic fabrics and styles all confirm these people were Syro-Palestinians. Canaanites, in other words. Vile Asiatics, as the Egyptians themselves put it.

And contrary to what some fringe posters still like to believe, the Hyksos were most certainly not the Hebrews. Such a position merely shows that one is stil grasping onto woefully outdated ideas.

 

A special note to Essan: Please discard the notion that they were Atlanteans. That's just crazy-talk, my good sir. Everyone knows Atlanteans founded dynastic Egypt but were long extinct by the Hyksos period! 

[kmt_sesh]

2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Sir has had enough to drink.

Or is just getting started.

[docyabut2]

Quote

I think the Hyksos  were of the Moses of the Bible.  

 

[Hanslune]

4 hours ago, Essan said:

Atlanteans

Well Mr Essan I see we may have to revisit the mallet discussion.

[back to earth]

3 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

The article melds very well with my own understanding. Nice find. Imagine that: something reliable from the Internet.

Manetho gave us the Greek derivation "Hyksos" and a description of events long accepted in academia. But as we know in modern scholarship, like many writers of his time Manetho's accounts are often wildly inaccurate. To be fair, though, no one can be sure how consistently wrong Manetho himself was or how badly misrepresented his accounts may have been in Josephus' writings.

There was no great, sweeping, violent invasion. Rather, as the article describes, there were waves of migration and cultural absorption beginning in the Middle Kingdom. The latter migrations were composed of warrior castes, but there is no strong evidence they came as warriors.

Who the Hyksos were is not so mysterious as some UM posters seem to think. There is plentiful evidence in Avaris and other Hyksos sites in Lower Egypt. Art styles, architectural styles, burial customs, ceramic fabrics and styles all confirm these people were Syro-Palestinians. Canaanites, in other words. Vile Asiatics, as the Egyptians themselves put it.

And contrary to what some fringe posters still like to believe, the Hyksos were most certainly not the Hebrews. Such a position merely shows that one is stil grasping onto woefully outdated ideas.

 

A special note to Essan: Please discard the notion that they were Atlanteans. That's just crazy-talk, my good sir. Everyone knows Atlanteans founded dynastic Egypt but were long extinct by the Hyksos period! 

I didnt know it was still considered some mystery , I remember reading some time back  pretty much what you outlined above . 

Also the Aryan Invasion idea into India has been discounted and  now considered ( for some time as well )   '  waves of migration and cultural absorption ' .   

History isnt necessarily the history of violence  ....  as it sometimes seems it is  . 

[Hanslune]

6 minutes ago, back to earth said:

A special note to Essan: Please discard the notion that they were Atlanteans. That's just crazy-talk, my good sir. Everyone knows Atlanteans founded dynastic Egypt but were long extinct by the Hyksos period! 

I call this as being foolish everyone knows that last of the Atlanteans froze to death when their main island slipped & skipped along on the earth's crust and ended up near the arctic circle where they became popsicles.

[back to earth]

Hmmmmm .... just like that quote lifted its petticoats and minced across the site to land in my quote box  ? 

[Tatetopa]

4 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

these people were Syro-Palestinians

Hold the phone, this  is big news!  Are you saying they arrived from Sirius?  Are these  the guys I saw in the Stargate Documentary on TV?

[Unusual Tournament]

Weren't the Hyksos also known as the Sea People's? 

[kmt_sesh]

36 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

I call this as being foolish everyone knows that last of the Atlanteans froze to death when their main island slipped & skipped along on the earth's crust and ended up near the arctic circle where they became popsicles.

I could well be mistaken, but are you certain those weren't the Lemurians?

[kmt_sesh]

19 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Hold the phone, this  is big news!  Are you saying they arrived from Sirius?  Are these  the guys I saw in the Stargate Documentary on TV?

Are you sirius? Come on. 

For a second there I thought you were talking about the old TV show. I was a big fan. I want to be Daniel Jackson when I grow up. But then I remembered this nonsense, and I'm guessing that's what you're talking about. I don't know how any grownup can believe such stuff. The old TV show is far more believable. (As Teal'c would say: "Indeed.")

[kmt_sesh]

14 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

Weren't the Hyksos also known as the Sea People's? 

Different folks. The Hyksos date to around 1600 BCE, not long before the dawn of the New Kingdom. The Sea Peoples make their first appearance on the historical scene during the reign of Merneptah, who ascended to the throne around 1213 BCE (late New Kingdom). The Hyksos were fairly heterogenous but at least the majority of them are understood to have been Canaanites. The Sea Peoples are a lot murkier and even more heterogenous; their exact ethnic composition still isn't known but they seem to have come from central to eastern Mediterranean regions (everywhere from Sicily to Asia Minor).

[Tatetopa]

8 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

For a second there I thought you were talking about the old TV show. I was a big fan. I want to be Daniel Jackson when I grow up. But then I remembered this nonsense, and I'm guessing that's what you're talking about. I don't know how any grownup can believe such stuff. The old TV show is far more believable. (As Teal'c would say: "Indeed.")

Of course I am Sirius. I wouldn't cast any shade on Daniel Jackson, but I was  an O'Neill fan, mainly because I had the hots for Samantha Carter. How can a grownup not believe in true love?   Then I gave up love for power when Thor, supreme commander of the Asgard fleet showed up on the Mjolnir. Funny, I had always pictured him as having hair and a beard.  Must be my Scandinavian heritage anthropomorphizing .

[Tatetopa]

I can understand the confusion, I didn't know about the other thing.  Cheap trick capitalizing on a classic like Stargate SG1.

[back to earth]

30 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Different folks. The Hyksos date to around 1600 BCE, not long before the dawn of the New Kingdom. The Sea Peoples make their first appearance on the historical scene during the reign of Merneptah, who ascended to the throne around 1213 BCE (late New Kingdom). The Hyksos were fairly heterogenous but at least the majority of them are understood to have been Canaanites. The Sea Peoples are a lot murkier and even more heterogenous; their exact ethnic composition still isn't known but they seem to have come from central to eastern Mediterranean regions (everywhere from Sicily to Asia Minor).

 Must be  

 

Edited February 17, 2017 by back to earth

[kmt_sesh]

24 minutes ago, back to earth said:

 Must be  

 

Of course it is. It's always the vile Asiatics.

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, kmt_sesh said:

I could well be mistaken, but are you certain those weren't the Lemurians?

No, no they were made into Lemon Chicken by Cannibalist Han. I mean you've have chicken Lemurian at a Cantonese Restaurant haven't you? They keep the fresh Lemurians in a shed out back.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, kmt_sesh said:

Are you sirius? Come on. 

For a second there I thought you were talking about the old TV show. I was a big fan. I want to be Daniel Jackson when I grow up. But then I remembered this nonsense, and I'm guessing that's what you're talking about. I don't know how any grownup can believe such stuff. The old TV show is far more believable. (As Teal'c would say: "Indeed.")

Everyone wanted to be Daniel Jackson.

Except Me, Alan Grant was where it was at for me.

[atalante]

quoting from the lead article:

http://asorblog.org/invaders-of-obscure-race-understanding-the-hyksos/

 

"Agreeing with Manetho’s perception are texts from the Seventeenth Dynasty (contemporary with the Fifteenth, dating ca. 1650-1550 BCE), and from the subsequent Eighteenth Dynasty. A leader from the southern city of Thebes, Kamose, evidently mounted a campaign to expel the foreigners from Egypt. He designates the Hyksos king and his people as an ‘Aam’ group who had desecrated the land. Their king was titled ‘heqa ny Retjenu’, ‘ruler of Retjenu’, and his city, Avaris, was described with high walls and harbours docked with 300 cedar ships filled with a plethora of goods including gold, silver and ‘all the fine products of Retjenu’. Around a century later, Queen Hatshepsut is quoted as having restored what was destroyed during the Hyksos period when the Nile Delta was occupied by the abominable ‘Aam’ people.

Such texts link the Hyksos with (1) the ‘Aam’, (2) Retjenu, and (3) a fortified city, known as Avaris, in the Delta. But who were these Aam? Where was Retjenu? And is there truly a city by the name of Avaris?

....The Aam are also recorded to have come from Retjenu, a toponym which remains unidentified. Egyptian texts do, however, suggest that it is located in the Levant, possibly north of modern Israel."

endquote

Ancient toponyms tend to survive into present time, although partially muddled.

Today's Litani river is likely to preserve ancient Egypt's toponym Retenu.  Thus, "north of the Litani" would correspond to ancient Egypt's Upper Retenu.  And "south of the Litani" would correspond to ancient Egypt's Lower Retenu. 

The date when this 15th dynasty (Hyksos) invaded Egypt is a close match for the 1628 BC date of the destructive Thera volcano eruption. 

[kmt_sesh]

This thread reminded me of a fairly recent find in Lower Egypt (2012 in Avaris):

The severing of hands was a traditional Egyptian method for counting enemy casualties after battle. There are texts describing piles of hands on the battlefield, but as far as I know this was the first archaeological evidence for the practice.

Article.

As gruesome as this is, it's better than the alternative practice for counting dead enemy soldiers: the severing of...um...their boy parts. Imagine that archaeological discovery. 

Now that I've shared this tidbit, no one should take it as an opportunity to get cocky.

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

This thread reminded me of a fairly recent find in Lower Egypt (2012 in Avaris):

The severing of hands was a traditional Egyptian method for counting enemy casualties after battle. There are texts describing piles of hands on the battlefield, but as far as I know this was the first archaeological evidence for the practice.

Article.

As gruesome as this is, it's better than the alternative practice for counting dead enemy soldiers: the severing of...um...their boy parts. Imagine that archaeological discovery. 

Now that I've shared this tidbit, no one should take it as an opportunity to get cocky.

Others, the Persians in this case

 

 

[kmt_sesh]

23 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Others, the Persians in this case

 

 

Goodness, 70,000 eyes? And all on one platter? Now, was this one eye from each of 70,000 victims or both eyes from 35,000?

How savage. I can't see the justice in this.

(Ha!)