The shapely figure of Akhenaten

[back to earth]

14 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Im sure the cholera epidemic was completely unrelated. Simple misfortune, not at all from using linens left in a cave for a thousand odd years, wrapped around a dead body. No siree. 

 Fair point, don't think they could have wished for better ending. 

 A bunch of pompous twits using the inmortal remains as snorting powder? Wonderful. 

 Just imagine his Ka sitting there watching. 

"What... what are you doing?" 

"No, put my kingly arm down!"

"What.. no! My kingly arm does not go there! Stop it!"

"Not the nose!"

 

One of the  ' best parts  '  of the mummy eating story   ( apparently originating in some real herbal remedy with an ingredient known as ;mumia ' - nothing to do with mummies ) was that when the supply of mummies started to run low   some  'unscrupulous '  (    , as if they weren't already ! ) mummy flesh dealers, started procuring dead bodies from hospices and other places, ( who knows what they died of ! ) and give them a quick dry out , paint with bitumen and a wrap up . 

.... as a health remedy !     

[kmt_sesh]

57 minutes ago, back to earth said:

 

One of the  ' best parts  '  of the mummy eating story   ( apparently originating in some real herbal remedy with an ingredient known as ;mumia ' - nothing to do with mummies ) was that when the supply of mummies started to run low   some  'unscrupulous '  (    , as if they weren't already ! ) mummy flesh dealers, started procuring dead bodies from hospices and other places, ( who knows what they died of ! ) and give them a quick dry out , paint with bitumen and a wrap up . 

.... as a health remedy !     

This is true. And gross. Mummies were ground into powder and consumed as a tonic—and sometimes much more recent corpses were used when the ancient variety was running scarce.

The term mumia is from Old Persian. It was their word for the natural tar that bubbles to the surface in places like the Dead Sea. They had thought that tar was medicinal, and the belief developed that Egyptian mummies were coated in the tar so the mummies must be medicinal. As your earlier post mentioned, the consumption of mummy dust was quite common through the seventeenth century and was very popular in Europe.

Mummies from the latest periods are sometimes covered in daubs of tar. We have several such examples at the Field Museum. But far more commonly, the black stuff you see smeared all over the bodies and bandages is oxidized, solidified tree and plant resin. It happens to look a lot like tar and the "mummy dust folks" often mistook it for bitumen.

The modern word "mummy" actually derives from the Old Persian mumia. What always kind of amuses me is, in so many foreign languages I hear at the museum, the word for "mummy" is still mumia.

[docyabut2]

21 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Yes, some have argued that Nefertiti and Smenkhkare are the same person. I personally don't agree because, to me, there's just enough evidence to show that Smenkhkare was a male who reigned sometime between Akhenaten and Tutankhamun, although very briefly. And in the tomb of Meryre II at Amarna, Smenkhkare is shown in the company of his queen, Meritaten, one of Akhenaten's daughters. It's probable that Smenkjare was Tutnakhamun's father.

However, many believe Nefertiti is one and the same as another shady Amarna royal named Ankheperure-mery-Neferkheperure. In this guise she may well have reigned independently for a short time after Akhenaten's death; and there is a theory she was regent to Tutankhamun for a short time. But this is only theoretical, mind you. Others have argued that Ankheperure-mery-Neferkheperure was in fact Meritaten.

Whether Akhenaten was gay or bi is an interesting thought. We should take care not to pigeon-hole him as such merely because he depicted himself in an odd manner. One's sexual persuasion does not generally affect physical appearance. But considering one in every ten people is believed to be gay, it's certainly possible. No such writing hints at Akhenaten being so, but I recall a story from much earlier about the great king Khufu (he of the Great Pyramid) getting it on with one of his generals. But that was only a fable, of course. Homosexuality was not officially proscribed in Egyptian society so far as we can tell, but it was frowned on because such a union could not produce children. But we know many men in ancient times practiced homosexuality (especially in Greece and Rome) and were married at the same time and produced children, which was acceptable. Whether Akhenaten was we can't say with any certainty, but it's always possible. I don't think it would account for the odd appearance of Amarna art, much less why his wives, concubines, and daughters were depicted that way, but it's a creative thought. 

Perhaps  Akhenaten  and Nefertiti  were both gay men given royal  babies.   Akhenaten  and  Nefertiti `s mummies  have never been found. Smenkhkare`s body they think was found in Akhenaten tomb 

Edited March 10, 2017 by docyabut2

[back to earth]

Phew !   Now thats a tale !   This is reminding me of 'Liquid Sky '     where the lead actor, Anne Carlisle plays the lead roles of  Jimmy, a gay man , and Margaret, a lesbian ,  who hate each other and    who of course have to play opposite and off each other . 

 

And .... due to 'encouragement '  at a party     ' do it '  .      

 

Unfortunately 'Margaret' is a tool of the mini UFO aliens parked in  their air con plant on top of their N Y '  Electodash ' penthouse ... and when she 'does it' with anyone, the aliens suck out there activated dopamine (via margaret ) and are left dead  (with a long crystal rod sticking out through their brains and head .... for some reason )   ......   even at a party     

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by back to earth

[back to earth]

3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Perhaps  Akhenaten  and Nefertiti  were both gay men given royal  babies.   Akhenaten  and  Nefertiti `s mummies  have never been found. Smenkhkare`s body they think was found in Akhenaten tomb 

Hey wait a minute Docy ..... since when did gay men have weedy little calves huge long feet, sagging pot bellies  and 'alien hybrid' heads ?   

[back to earth]

7 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

This is true. And gross. Mummies were ground into powder and consumed as a tonic—and sometimes much more recent corpses were used when the ancient variety was running scarce.

The term mumia is from Old Persian. It was their word for the natural tar that bubbles to the surface in places like the Dead Sea. They had thought that tar was medicinal, and the belief developed that Egyptian mummies were coated in the tar so the mummies must be medicinal. As your earlier post mentioned, the consumption of mummy dust was quite common through the seventeenth century and was very popular in Europe.

Quote

Mummies from the latest periods are sometimes covered in daubs of tar. We have several such examples at the Field Museum. But far more commonly, the black stuff you see smeared all over the bodies and bandages is oxidized, solidified tree and plant resin. It happens to look a lot like tar and the "mummy dust folks" often mistook it for bitumen.

You can buy mummy dust on line. Why may you ask  -  I  was once acquaintanced to a young lady of the 'Goth' variety , she was telling me  one goth girl attacked another goth girl at the pub  for sleeping with her boyfriend, " There were curses and stuff then one threw some mummy dust in the other ones face . "

Me ;   "Ummmm ...  they do that eh ?  Where does one get mummy dust nowadays ? "

" Online . "

" Ohhhh .... I see .  "  

Quote

The modern word "mummy" actually derives from the Old Persian mumia. What always kind of amuses me is, in so many foreign languages I hear at the museum, the word for "mummy" is still mumia.

Ahhh   'Old Persian'  ..... going further back it opens a giant 'can of worms'   daeva deva  ( God or Gods )  ' div '   diverse but div bad and evil devil divert     . 

Didnt someone just post some cuniform somewhere  ?

"moving right along ' ;

Edited March 10, 2017 by back to earth

[kmt_sesh]

23 hours ago, back to earth said:

You can buy mummy dust on line. Why may you ask  -  I  was once acquaintanced to a young lady of the 'Goth' variety , she was telling me  one goth girl attacked another goth girl at the pub  for sleeping with her boyfriend, " There were curses and stuff then one threw some mummy dust in the other ones face . "

Me ;   "Ummmm ...  they do that eh ?  Where does one get mummy dust nowadays ? "

" Online . "

" Ohhhh .... I see .  "  

It was probably detritus from a vacuum cleaner. Then again, there are rumors that "mummy dust" can be found at some arcane places. I don't buy it. Literally.

There are funny-named products, however:

• A specially formulated blend of amber and other all natural oils. A warm, resinous scent that is rich and earthy, with a hint of relaxed sweetness.

Source

Doesn't say anything about ground-up mummies—or is that the "relaxed sweetness" part?

Quote

Ahhh   'Old Persian'  ..... going further back it opens a giant 'can of worms'   daeva deva  ( God or Gods )  ' div '   diverse but div bad and evil devil divert     . 

Didnt someone just post some cuniform somewhere  ?

"moving right along ' ;

Is that Persian? I can't read it but I suspect it's the original formula for mummy dust.

[kmt_sesh]

On March 9, 2017 at 11:12 PM, back to earth said:

...

Okay, found it. In Persian it's called the Ashem Vohu, which translated roughly means "delicious paradise." It's back to earth's own recipe for chocolate chip cookies, which uses mostly traditional ingredients except for the chips. He mixes the chocolate with authentic mummy dust for that special little kick.

One wonders where he gets the mummies, but I'd suggest to the folks at Macquarie University that they check their Egyptology holdings. Some of the storage shelves might be empty. 

Spoiler

The truth: https://zant.org/about/introduction-to-zoroastrianism/

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by kmt_sesh

[back to earth]

2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

It was probably detritus from a vacuum cleaner. Then again, there are rumors that "mummy dust" can be found at some arcane places. I don't buy it. Literally.

There are funny-named products, however:

• A specially formulated blend of amber and other all natural oils. A warm, resinous scent that is rich and earthy, with a hint of relaxed sweetness.

Source

Doesn't say anything about ground-up mummies—or is that the "relaxed sweetness" part?

Mmmmmm ......  'amber'  I love that smell  ( and so did the girls !   ... note I said   did , being beyond it all nw, I can reveal some secrets   ) 

Quote

Is that Persian? I can't read it but I suspect it's the original formula for mummy dust.

  

No, its not   ' Persian ' , or even Fasi . 

 

or in English characters 

Gatha Ahunavaiti - Yasna 31.21
Mazda dadat ahuro
Haurvato ameretatascha
Boroish a ashah'yacha
Khapaithyat khshathrahya saro
Vangheush vazdvare manangho
Ye hoi mainyo shyaothanaishcha urvatho.
Ashem Vohu  

Edited March 11, 2017 by back to earth

[back to earth]

...  we scapeing the barrel about things to talk about 

 you going to have to spill beans soon . 

[internetperson]

I earned brownie points with an older gal I shamelessly flirt with at the bar yesterday due to my lurking of this thread. Thought I'd let yall know! Love your posts sesh it's an education.

[Kenemet]

On 3/9/2017 at 7:51 PM, docyabut2 said:

Perhaps  Akhenaten  and Nefertiti  were both gay men given royal  babies.   Akhenaten  and  Nefertiti `s mummies  have never been found. Smenkhkare`s body they think was found in Akhenaten tomb 

Unlikely, as the way that the designation is given for the children indicates that they were born of the royal wife Nefertiti.  They did adopt children (and these children were referred to as 'son' and 'daughter' but there was a special designation for those who were actually born of the union.

[back to earth]

5 hours ago, internetperson said:

I earned brownie points with an older gal I shamelessly flirt with at the bar yesterday due to my lurking of this thread. Thought I'd let yall know! Love your posts sesh it's an education.

?       "  Hi there !  I am a lurker in the 'Shapely figure of Akhenaten thread ."   ?

You threw mummy dust in her face ?

You recited ancient Avestan poetry to her?   

Spill the beans man ! 

 

[Khaemwaset]

On 3/9/2017 at 0:28 AM, kmt_sesh said:

Yes, some have argued that Nefertiti and Smenkhkare are the same person. I personally don't agree because, to me, there's just enough evidence to show that Smenkhkare was a male who reigned sometime between Akhenaten and Tutankhamun, although very briefly. And in the tomb of Meryre II at Amarna, Smenkhkare is shown in the company of his queen, Meritaten, one of Akhenaten's daughters. It's probable that Smenkjare was Tutnakhamun's father.

However, many believe Nefertiti is one and the same as another shady Amarna royal named Ankheperure-mery-Neferkheperure. In this guise she may well have reigned independently for a short time after Akhenaten's death; and there is a theory she was regent to Tutankhamun for a short time. But this is only theoretical, mind you. Others have argued that Ankheperure-mery-Neferkheperure was in fact Meritaten.

Whether Akhenaten was gay or bi is an interesting thought. We should take care not to pigeon-hole him as such merely because he depicted himself in an odd manner. One's sexual persuasion does not generally affect physical appearance. But considering one in every ten people is believed to be gay, it's certainly possible. No such writing hints at Akhenaten being so, but I recall a story from much earlier about the great king Khufu (he of the Great Pyramid) getting it on with one of his generals. But that was only a fable, of course. Homosexuality was not officially proscribed in Egyptian society so far as we can tell, but it was frowned on because such a union could not produce children. But we know many men in ancient times practiced homosexuality (especially in Greece and Rome) and were married at the same time and produced children, which was acceptable. Whether Akhenaten was we can't say with any certainty, but it's always possible. I don't think it would account for the odd appearance of Amarna art, much less why his wives, concubines, and daughters were depicted that way, but it's a creative thought. 

Been away a few days and am now just catching up on where this feast of a thread has developed.  I'm still on edge waiting for kmt_sesh's big reveal, but gosh I'm enraptured by the correspondence.

Now, being a very old man, just now I find myself trying to remember where it was that I read certain questions about Amenhotep III's masculinity.  He is sometimes portrayed with a certain refinement that can be seen as feminizing.

 

So, I'm longing to know, Kmt_sesh, if you're acquainted with this idea, and if you think that Akenaten's break with the masculine tradition of Pharaonic portraiture was perhaps presaged or even enabled by his father's tweaking of the tradition. And also, have you heard any theorizing about Amenhotep III being gay or bisexual (?), because that would make the dynamic between him and Tiy even more interesting, as well as that of she and her son. 

(ps....of course Hatshepsut had already taken some of the testosterone out of the tradition, but how much of her had been erased?)

Edited March 12, 2017 by Khaemwaset

[kmt_sesh]

10 hours ago, internetperson said:

I earned brownie points with an older gal I shamelessly flirt with at the bar yesterday due to my lurking of this thread. Thought I'd let yall know! Love your posts sesh it's an education.

Thanks much, internetperson. It's good to know this thread has been useful...especially when it scores brownie points.

But like back to earth, I'm dying to know the details, man!

[kmt_sesh]

3 hours ago, Khaemwaset said:

Been away a few days and am now just catching up on where this feast of a thread has developed.  I'm still on edge waiting for kmt_sesh's big reveal, but gosh I'm enraptured by the correspondence.

Now, being a very old man, just now I find myself trying to remember where it was that I read certain questions about Amenhotep III's masculinity.  He is sometimes portrayed with a certain refinement that can be seen as feminizing.

>>Image Snip<<

 

So, I'm longing to know, Kmt_sesh, if you're acquainted with this idea, and if you think that Akenaten's break with the masculine tradition of Pharaonic portraiture was perhaps presaged or even enabled by his father's tweaking of the tradition. And also, have you heard any theorizing about Amenhotep III being gay or bisexual (?), because that would make the dynamic between him and Tiy even more interesting, as well as that of she and her son. 

(ps....of course Hatshepsut had already taken some of the testosterone out of the tradition, but how much of her had been erased?)

I have to admit I've never encountered this theory about Amunhotep III. Please do tell if you happen to remember where you read about it. I've always just heard it explained as depicting the king as young and beautiful, the ideal male. As far as I can remember, the torsos, arms, and legs of Amunhotep III's statues are pretty standard. Amunhotep III was one of the most powerful and wealthy kings of the New Kingdom, and in absence of mighty military conquests was a prodigious builder and supporter of the orthodox state. Amunhotep seems to have venerated the Aten on a personal level, so I would say that was what chiefly influenced Akhenaten to enact his sweeping religious reforms.

As far as homosexuality in the Amarna Period, the one example I can think of is this stela:

On the face of it, the stela seems to show two royal men in an intimately affectionate pose. The style is definitively Amarna, of course. The main problem is, the inscriptional plan is incomplete and none of the cartouches were ever filled in. Some scholars used to identify the two figures as Akhenaten and Smenkhkare, and wondered if they were lovers. To this day the familial relationship between these two males isn't exactly known. But today it's more common to identify them as Akhenaten and Nefertiti, the latter allowed royal attributes and poses in other extant monuments.

[kmt_sesh]

All right, we're on page 6 and I'm seeing some hints to get on with it. And I agree it's probably time, at the risk of killing my own thread. Personally I hope the thread will continue and we can discuss Akhenaten or other aspects of the Amarna Period, but that's beyond my control.

So, why was Amarna figurative art so oddly proportioned? I've strived to show why disease or deformity is not at play, and likewise why skull deformation can't explain it. An interesting connection with the fertility god Hapi was presented earlier in the thread, but I don't think that explains it, either. And, of course, we needn't entertain silly things like aliens. Both ShadowSot and back to earth have come very close, however, and in fact in an earlier post back to earth pretty much nailed it.

To inderstand the current academic theory, one needs to understand Akhenaten's personal conceptualization of his favored god, the Aten. This was the physical manifestation of the sun and represented all of the life-giving properties of the sun. This was always an important concept in pharaonic Egypt, but Akhenaten took it in a different direction. Consider that nearly all Egyptian deities were depicted in some recognizable anthropomorphic form, either as fully human-like in appearance or as human-like with animal aspects (the hawk head of Re-Horakhty, the jackal head of Anubis, the ibis head of Thoth). But in Akhenaten's conceptualization, once his religious reforms were fully developed, the Aten was never depicted anthropomorphically. Consistently, the Aten is shown as a sun disk, and usually with rays extended downward terminating in little human hands, some of which hold ankh signs:

There was really nothing "human" about the Aten, almost as though Akhenaten deliberately wanted to show it as something "otherworldly" and unknowable. But this deity's life-giving properties were paramount, and one sees this in the Great Hymn to the Aten. It's believed Akhenaten himself wrote this prayer and numerous tombs of the nobility at Amarna record shorter versions of it. The full form is known from the Amarna tomb of the powerful royal courtier Ay, who would later become a king himself. I'm not going to copy and paste the whole hymn here, but one of the relevant sections is as follows:

Thou didst create the world according to thy desire,

Whilst thou wert alone: All men, cattle, and wild beasts,

Whatever is on earth, going upon (its) feet,

And what is on high, flying with its wings.

 

I'm not crazy about the "biblical" feel to this translation but you can read the entire hymn here. The clear implication is, the Aten was the ultimate creator deity. All things in existence come from the Aten—but there is no indication of any importance to a possible gender for the Aten. Is it male, female? Properly understood, the Aten is neither and both. It doesn't need male or female genitals to create, like most of the traditional creator deities did. The Aten creates simply because it can and because it is all-powerful.

 

So from here comes an understanding of Amarna figural art. Akhenaten is shown as neither male nor female but really as both. This doesn't suggest a form of hermaphroditism but is an expression of the creator potential. Akhenaten is the physical representative of the Aten and is its intermediary on earth. He alone can commune with the Aten, and through Akhenaten's stewardship on behalf of mankind, the Aten will protect, sustain, and create.

 

That is basically the modern academic view of why Amarna statues and reliefs look weird, to put it plainly.

 

Thanks again, everyone, for being part of this discussion. I wish there were more like it. I've enjoyed it quite a lot and hope we can continue it.

[internetperson]

11 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

But like back to earth, I'm dying to know the details, man!

You 2 are like a couple gossiping schoolgirls!

I really don't want to say much to protect my identity. My balls get busted a lot as is and if there is any slight perceived bragging I will not hear the end of it. The timing of this conversation is why I brought it up. I still don't know enough about this topic (hence my lack of posting) to bring it up in conversation. I just know (knew at the time) about Akhenaten, apparently he was the 'heretic king' and he had statues that made him look weak (for lack of a better term). That's what made it so funny is someone else brought up the statues and I jumped right in and cut him off like, "yeah oh you mean akhenaten the heretic king." That was baisically the extent of it. More Egypt talk ensued, but that was the extent of the akhenaten. 

The gal has had a crush on me for a while it was just kinda funny to see her face light up when I said that.

[kmt_sesh]

Schoolgirls? Schoolgirls! How offensive.

Please, we're like a couple of gossiping old women.

[ShadowSot]

7 hours ago, internetperson said:

You 2 are like a couple gossiping schoolgirls!

I really don't want to say much to protect my identity. My balls get busted a lot as is and if there is any slight perceived bragging I will not hear the end of it. The timing of this conversation is why I brought it up. I still don't know enough about this topic (hence my lack of posting) to bring it up in conversation. I just know (knew at the time) about Akhenaten, apparently he was the 'heretic king' and he had statues that made him look weak (for lack of a better term). That's what made it so funny is someone else brought up the statues and I jumped right in and cut him off like, "yeah oh you mean akhenaten the heretic king." That was baisically the extent of it. More Egypt talk ensued, but that was the extent of the akhenaten. 

The gal has had a crush on me for a while it was just kinda funny to see her face light up when I said that.

Nice, you're a bit lucky there. I only attract old woman or, on one memorable and awkward instance, a woman at her after wedding party. 

7 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Schoolgirls? Schoolgirls! How offensive.

Please, we're like a couple of gossiping old women.

I like to think of myself as being in a sort of cheerleader roll, supoorting types like InternetPerson.

[internetperson]

33 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Schoolgirls? Schoolgirls! How offensive.

Please, we're like a couple of gossiping old women.

Ha! I'm leaving that alone.

Joking aside it'd be great if you'd have an AMA (ask me anything) thread regarding ancient history. I have lots of little questions regarding random things somewhat unrelated like the tribe of Judah, intentional (?) burying of sites, why some myths or whatever are copied in different cultures, literacy rates and how that changed society of the years, etc, etc. I have quick questions that can be wrapped up in 500 words and quick questions that probably don't have such quick answers. 

EDIT: Disregard what I said about 'leaving that alone.' Found this pic of you 2:

Edited March 13, 2017 by internetperson

[back to earth]

19 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

All right, we're on page 6 and I'm seeing some hints to get on with it. And I agree it's probably time, at the risk of killing my own thread. Personally I hope the thread will continue and we can discuss Akhenaten or other aspects of the Amarna Period, but that's beyond my control.

So, why was Amarna figurative art so oddly proportioned? I've strived to show why disease or deformity is not at play, and likewise why skull deformation can't explain it. An interesting connection with the fertility god Hapi was presented earlier in the thread, but I don't think that explains it, either. And, of course, we needn't entertain silly things like aliens. Both ShadowSot and back to earth have come very close, however, and in fact in an earlier post back to earth pretty much nailed it.

To inderstand the current academic theory, one needs to understand Akhenaten's personal conceptualization of his favored god, the Aten. This was the physical manifestation of the sun and represented all of the life-giving properties of the sun. This was always an important concept in pharaonic Egypt, but Akhenaten took it in a different direction. Consider that nearly all Egyptian deities were depicted in some recognizable anthropomorphic form, either as fully human-like in appearance or as human-like with animal aspects (the hawk head of Re-Horakhty, the jackal head of Anubis, the ibis head of Thoth). But in Akhenaten's conceptualization, once his religious reforms were fully developed, the Aten was never depicted anthropomorphically. Consistently, the Aten is shown as a sun disk, and usually with rays extended downward terminating in little human hands, some of which hold ankh signs:

There was really nothing "human" about the Aten, almost as though Akhenaten deliberately wanted to show it as something "otherworldly" and unknowable. But this deity's life-giving properties were paramount, and one sees this in the Great Hymn to the Aten. It's believed Akhenaten himself wrote this prayer and numerous tombs of the nobility at Amarna record shorter versions of it. The full form is known from the Amarna tomb of the powerful royal courtier Ay, who would later become a king himself. I'm not going to copy and paste the whole hymn here, but one of the relevant sections is as follows:

Thou didst create the world according to thy desire,

Whilst thou wert alone: All men, cattle, and wild beasts,

Whatever is on earth, going upon (its) feet,

And what is on high, flying with its wings.

 

I'm not crazy about the "biblical" feel to this translation but you can read the entire hymn here. The clear implication is, the Aten was the ultimate creator deity. All things in existence come from the Aten—but there is no indication of any importance to a possible gender for the Aten. Is it male, female? Properly understood, the Aten is neither and both. It doesn't need male or female genitals to create, like most of the traditional creator deities did. The Aten creates simply because it can and because it is all-powerful.

 

So from here comes an understanding of Amarna figural art. Akhenaten is shown as neither male nor female but really as both. This doesn't suggest a form of hermaphroditism but is an expression of the creator potential. Akhenaten is the physical representative of the Aten and is its intermediary on earth. He alone can commune with the Aten, and through Akhenaten's stewardship on behalf of mankind, the Aten will protect, sustain, and create.

 

That is basically the modern academic view of why Amarna statues and reliefs look weird, to put it plainly.

 

Thanks again, everyone, for being part of this discussion. I wish there were more like it. I've enjoyed it quite a lot and hope we can continue it.

! 

Hope it can continue  ???   It certainly will !         Thanks for the above,   BUT  

( bear with me  , its just my way  )   the whole crux of the issue and your answer seems to be  ;

" Akhenaten is shown as neither male nor female but really as both. This doesn't suggest a form of hermaphroditism but is an expression of the creator potential. Akhenaten is the physical representative of the Aten and is its intermediary on earth. He alone can commune with the Aten, and through Akhenaten's stewardship on behalf of mankind, the Aten will protect, sustain, and create. "

? Maybe I  need you to put it more than 'plainly' ? 

 I agree with the idea overall and that was where I was going (and further)  , but how does this explain the  rest of the unusualness of Akhenaten's figure; the saggy pot belly, the elongated feet, the 'exaggerated' facial features, the thin elongated limbs  , etc .

I can see what you say in the general symbolism of the art overall . I might even think that his long thin arms represent the depicted sun rays with hands on the end , if I stretch things . 

But I dont really get it .  Am I missing something ?  

 

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, ShadowSot said:

Nice, you're a bit lucky there. I only attract old woman or, on one memorable and awkward instance, a woman at her after wedding party. 

I like to think of myself as being in a sort of cheerleader roll, supoorting types like InternetPerson.

bte  ,    S S  ,    kmt_sesh    ;

 

 

[ShadowSot]

Oh, hey. Ladybaby.

...

 How the heck do I know the name of that group?

[back to earth]

9 hours ago, internetperson said:

You 2 are like a couple gossiping schoolgirls!

Oh dont be such a stuffed shirt .... join in with us !