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The shapely figure of Akhenaten


kmt_sesh

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1 hour ago, internetperson said:

Ha! I'm leaving that alone.

Joking aside it'd be great if you'd have an AMA (ask me anything) thread regarding ancient history. I have lots of little questions regarding random things somewhat unrelated like the tribe of Judah, intentional (?) burying of sites, why some myths or whatever are copied in different cultures,...

 

I am IN on that one   !  .... right up my  ' mythological  alley '   !

Also, why some myths seem to have 'parts' or themes that get rearranged in their sequences and outcomes, reversed , modulated , etc . in different cultures , and why .   ;) 

 

 

 

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... and myth as ' ancient mystery ' should fit into this forum .....   eh Boss ?   (I would prefer it here , better company and intelligent responses     ;) ) 

You wanna start a thread  on it I. P.  -   I am certainly up for it ! 

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20 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

Oh, hey. Ladybaby.

...

 How the heck do I know the name of that group?

 

We know what you did on your holiday to Japan !   ;) 

< pop ! ..... little door opens >

"Excusa me Tourist-San , Ladyboy concert tickets, pressa bottom button ." 

 

vending-machine-service.jpg

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On 3/12/2017 at 5:24 PM, Khaemwaset said:

Been away a few days and am now just catching up on where this feast of a thread has developed.  I'm still on edge waiting for kmt_sesh's big reveal, but gosh I'm enraptured by the correspondence.

Now, being a very old man, just now I find myself trying to remember where it was that I read certain questions about Amenhotep III's masculinity.  He is sometimes portrayed with a certain refinement that can be seen as feminizing.

 

...
So, I'm longing to know, Kmt_sesh, if you're acquainted with this idea, and if you think that Akenaten's break with the masculine tradition of Pharaonic portraiture was perhaps presaged or even enabled by his father's tweaking of the tradition.

In the 1980's and 1990's there was some discussion as to whether there was a family history of gynecomastia, but this seems to have been more in the popular press than in Egyptology.

 

Quote

And also, have you heard any theorizing about Amenhotep III being gay or bisexual (?), because that would make the dynamic between him and Tiy even more interesting, as well as that of she and her son. 

(ps....of course Hatshepsut had already taken some of the testosterone out of the tradition, but how much of her had been erased?)

Not really, no.  I'm not sure what you're hinting here at Tiy and her son, but mothers were occasionally installed as the Great Royal Wife of the son.  The title does not necessarily imply sexual contact.

 

Hatshepsut's re-imaging herself as a male was in part to overcome some of the prejudice against a female ruler.  It was a deliberately crafted policy that took place over a number of years.  Not that much of her history was erased - we have her grand mortuary temple with all of its texts - at Karnak her obelisk is merely walled up to a certain height but otherwise left undamaged. 

 

It is now understood that the erasing of her name (which took place late in Thutmose's reign) was to provide legitimacy to Thutmose III's lineage (since he was descended from a non-royal wife (Hatshepsut was the king's daughter by THE Royal Wife) and stability for the reign of his successor.

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42 minutes ago, back to earth said:

 

We know what you did on your holiday to Japan !   ;) 

< pop ! ..... little door opens >

"Excusa me Tourist-San , Ladyboy concert tickets, pressa bottom button ." 

 

vending-machine-service.jpg

That was supposed to be a secret between the two of us!

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Only in Japan could they have a vending machine with a person inside it to tell you what to do if you get confused being  served by a machine instead of a person . 

:) 

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22 hours ago, internetperson said:

Ha! I'm leaving that alone.

Joking aside it'd be great if you'd have an AMA (ask me anything) thread regarding ancient history. I have lots of little questions regarding random things somewhat unrelated like the tribe of Judah, intentional (?) burying of sites, why some myths or whatever are copied in different cultures, literacy rates and how that changed society of the years, etc, etc. I have quick questions that can be wrapped up in 500 words and quick questions that probably don't have such quick answers. 

Your wish is my command. Actually I think it's a great idea for a thread, as long as the participation is there. So check this out:

Let's talk history

Quote

EDIT: Disregard what I said about 'leaving that alone.' Found this pic of you 2:

laverne-and-shirley.jpg

I can't speak for back to earth but I was picturing something more like this:

http://www.photosbysergio.com/sergio-best-travel-photos/h2EFF0E41#h2eff0e41

I'll leave it up to you to decide which of them is us. Really, there's no winning either way.

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19 hours ago, Kenemet said:

In the 1980's and 1990's there was some discussion as to whether there was a family history of gynecomastia, but this seems to have been more in the popular press than in Egyptology.

 

Not really, no.  I'm not sure what you're hinting here at Tiy and her son, but mothers were occasionally installed as the Great Royal Wife of the son.  The title does not necessarily imply sexual contact.

 

Hatshepsut's re-imaging herself as a male was in part to overcome some of the prejudice against a female ruler.  It was a deliberately crafted policy that took place over a number of years.  Not that much of her history was erased - we have her grand mortuary temple with all of its texts - at Karnak her obelisk is merely walled up to a certain height but otherwise left undamaged. 

 

It is now understood that the erasing of her name (which took place late in Thutmose's reign) was to provide legitimacy to Thutmose III's lineage (since he was descended from a non-royal wife (Hatshepsut was the king's daughter by THE Royal Wife) and stability for the reign of his successor.

I'm so sorry for the confusion I've set down on this thread.  I've looked through my old notebooks and cannot find the reference to my queries above, so maybe I just dreamed it?  Or read it in some shameful place.  That being said, as I remember the thrust of the argument at the time (I believe it was the late seventies, but can't be sure), the refined, somewhat feminine features seen on Amenhotep III's representations after his 30th year, or after his first Sed festival, were 'believed' by the writer to indicate a possible bisexual nature.  Nobody else has heard of this, and I can't find any currency with the notion, so I guess it was all just BS and abandoned.

My comment about Hatshepsut was a question as to whether her pharaonic images were still available to be seen at the time of Amunhoteps III and IV, since Thutmosis III had done a job to deface them; in the context of masculine canon in pharaonic portraiture.  As to that, there is a paper laying a precedent for Amarna-style art and representation on Amunhotep III, by W. Raymond Johnson for the Journal of Egyptian Archaeology 1996 Vol 82.  It's entitled; Amenhotep III and Amarna: Some New Considerations, though these considerations I guess are no longer new, and his conclusions therein may not have currency since they ultimately argue for a co-regency of Amenhotep III and IV, which I suppose is now abandoned.  You can view this interesting paper through EES/ JSTOR here:  http://faculty.uml.edu/ethan_Spanier/Teaching/documents/AmenhotepIIIandAmarna.pdf   The paper also echoes kmt sesh's ultimate, that the pharaohs' Atenist distinctive portraiture was in keeping with the Aten having no single anthropomorphic sexual identity, unlike the other gods, and the identification of the living pharaoh with/as the god.  It also includes other information pertinent to this topic and thread. 

 

 

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