The Lost Tribe of Clover Hollow

[BlueHeron]

2 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Ummmmmm   its another shot of your  ' kingfisher video '   isnt it  .... somewhat shot  different .    Is it a reflection ir an underwater image of the kingfisher ?  

We could ask ChRlz to analyze the footage if you like ... he is very good at it   !

I'm impressed that you saw my kingfisher video, I like that video. Did you notice the water bubbling up during the rain? I believe that's a chemical reaction between the acid rain and the iron and limestone deposits in the water. It happens every time it rains.  I would love somebody to look at that video, it doesn't have anything to do with the Kingfisher video though.

[back to earth]

Well, are we going to segway to this?  if so, why does this little piece of film have significance to what you are saying in this thread ? 

And some background info is needed on where and how you took it , and camera info and other things , if you really want a good analysis , are you prepared to answer questions like that ?  

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I've contacted the office of the state archaeologist.

lets just see what Happens next.

[BlueHeron]

8 minutes ago, back to earth said:

http://accrispin.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/the-book-festival-empire-of-jm-northern.html

I have found that all book contest are strictly money making  machines including places like writers digest. i was invited to the award ceremonies at very nice places but i didn't go to any of them.

[back to earth]

And I just sent a PM to  ChrLz    asking if he would grace us with his expertise 

lets just see what Happens next.

[back to earth]

6 minutes ago, BlueHeron said:

I have found that all book contest are strictly money making  machines including places like writers digest. i was invited to the award ceremonies at very nice places but i didn't go to any of them.

Why not  ... you get free cordial and potato chips I hear       + a possible $500 to $1500 as top prize winner   !   AND they pay your airfare  !    

[BlueHeron]

11 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I've contacted the office of the state archaeologist.

lets just see what Happens next.

Great, I betcha they won't return your call.

[BlueHeron]

3 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Why not  ... you get free cordial and potato chips I hear       + a possible $500 to $1500 as top prize winner   !   AND they pay your airfare  !    

Only if you are the top prize winner, which I was not

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 minute ago, BlueHeron said:

Great, I betcha they won't return your call.

Well, well see won't we?

[kmt_sesh]

BlueHeron, I see you've linked to several YouTube videos. That's fine, and feel free to continue to do so. What we would object to is a poster linking to one of his videos, leaving no comment or description, and then scampering away. We tend to delete such posts (it falls under advertising, Rule 1a). You've more than demonstrated a willingness to discuss the details of your work. That's what we're looking for.

While we do not want a link that will take posters to a site where they would have to purchase something (again, advertising), you should feel free, like rashore said earlier, to discuss the details of your writing. It might be a good idea to develop the highlights and most important points in posts you compose right here. That way, in a roundabout way, you're advertising your book but in an acceptable manner. And who knows, you might strike some posters' interest enough that they'll find your book and purchase it.

------------------------------------------------------

On matters more related to the subject of your thread, I also see caution where other posters have. The terms "civilization" and "culture," for example, are definitely not synonyms (your argument from Post 13). In the proper archaeological and anthropological context, there are distinct differences between the two. While a civilization can be regarded as a culture, for instance, not all cultures can be considered civilizations. A good example is the Neolithic site of Göbekli Tepe in Anatolia. It was certainly a well-organized and advanced culture for its time, but there remains no evidence that its makers constituted a civilization. Sumer and Egypt were civilizations, as were the Greeks and Romans. In the New World, so were the Mayans, Incas, and Aztecs. But enough on that for now.

The only other thing I, too, would emphasize is, what other evidence is there for this prehistoric culture? Exactly what age range do you attach to it (apologies if you've already answered this)? While the rock faces are indeed interesting, others are correct in cautioning pareidolia. There would need to be a lot more evidence to sustain the culture you're positing. What lithic evidence is there with which this culture can be identified? Are there sites of inhabitation, seasonal or otherwise? That's the sort of thing that's needed.

Thanks for bringing this discussion to our forum. 

[BlueHeron]

29 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Well, are we going to segway to this?  if so, why does this little piece of film have significance to what you are saying in this thread ? 

And some background info is needed on where and how you took it , and camera info and other things , if you really want a good analysis , are you prepared to answer questions like that ?  

I was using an ordro Hdv-v88 video camera on a tripod zoomed in on the creek about 30 yards away and 20 yards below. I was video taping the bubbling water reaction after a rain event. The video camera shoots in infrared and full spectrum but that day it was in regular daylight mode.

[BlueHeron]

1 hour ago, back to earth said:

Well, are we going to segway to this?  if so, why does this little piece of film have significance to what you are saying in this thread ? 

And some background info is needed on where and how you took it , and camera info and other things , if you really want a good analysis , are you prepared to answer questions like that ?  

Supernatural activity comes in many forms and this particular video is very strange. Rashore did ask me what supernatural evidence did I have, this is what I have. I have no explanation.

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, BlueHeron said:

Here's the answers to your questions but you are not going to like them.

1. I've got the National Historic Registry number on this site along with the location but no way am I letting that information out. That would identify the location along with my property and I don't want that to be public knowledge.

2. No way would the State Archaeologist want his name made public about private conversations.

3. The law is called the law of decency and in no way am I disrespecting an ancient burial site if I find one.

4. I have no idea what was in the archaeologist head.

Sorry, I have nothing to prove. Believe me or don't, it's completely up to you.

 

1. Sorry but having  a National Historic Registry puts you in the public domain - pretending to hide it is well a bit silly - as you are advertising the location by describing it. Now if you do have NRHP is it possible it is for the existing mill pond and not for your claimed site? Could you clarify that please?

2. A state archaeologist having a discussion about sites would never be 'private' particularly if you have reached an 'agreement'. I would suggest you made it up.

3. No, you said there was agreement made. I hate to tell you this but you are not immortal and neither is the 'state archaeologist' if this 'agreement' isn't made public it has no force and will be forgotten. I suspect no 'agreement' of any kind was made. I suggest you learn not to claim the support of authorities when you cannot back it up.

4. No one with archaeology training would be interested in that rock.

Actually you have a great deal to prove - you are trying to SELL a product that is based on there being a site there. You have made a number of claims - and then failed to support any of them. Indeed you've tried to back track with lame excuses that do not ring true.

Let me give you some advice: When making fringe claims don't ever make a claim that can be checked on or verified, it ALWAYS has to be vague, mysterious or controlled by evil elites who will stop at nothing to keep others from hearing about it!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by Hanslune

[BlueHeron]

6 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

1. Sorry but having  a National Historic Registry puts you in the public domain - pretending to hide it is well a bit silly - as you are advertising the location by describing it. Now if you do have NRHP is it possible it is for the existing mill pond and not for your claimed site? Could you clarify that please?

2. A state archaeologist having a discussion about sites would never be 'private' particularly if you have reached an 'agreement'. I would suggest you made it up.

3. No, you said there was agreement made. I hate to tell you this but you are not immortal and neither is the 'state archaeologist' if this 'agreement' isn't made public it has no force and will be forgotten. I suspect no 'agreement' of any kind was made. I suggest you learn not to claim the support of authorities when you cannot back it up.

4. No one with archaeology training would be interested in that rock.

Actually you have a great deal to prove - you are trying to SELL a product that is based on their being a site there. You have made a number of claims - and then failed to support any of them. Indeed you've tried to back track with lame excuses that do not ring true.

Let me give you some advice: When making fringe claims don't ever make a claim that can be checked on or verified, it ALWAYS has to be vague, mysterious, controlled by evil elites!

1. I have the number I was given after the archaeologist visited my site and gave me the number for the village about a quarter mile away because he thought it might pertain to my site. The millpond and dam do not have a number and there was no record of it with the State of Virginia, the archaeologist was surprised. My house does have a number but it exist for another reason. The number I now have is for a nearby site not connected to my property.

2. What agreement are you talking about? The archaeologist and I just came up with a plan to maintain and protect the site. It was completely my responsibility to follow it. He was just offering advice on best practices. The State of Va was in no way going to expend any funds for this expenditure. However he was very forthcoming with good advice. He told me to work on only one rock formation at a time. At the time, about 4 years ago, the rock formations were completely covered in brush and could hardly be seen. This is before any portables were found and only one or so formations were visible. I don't appreciate you questioning my integrity, I have been as honest as I can be in all these threads.

3. Again, the only agreement that was made was a meeting of the minds in how to protect and maintain the site. He did offer me the advice when talking about the location, be vague or I will have scavengers everywhere. What formal agreement are you talking about. I originally contacted Virginia Tech's Indian studies department and showed them some of the photographs and they contacted the state archaeologist who made a visit within three days. He spent three hours on my property. I don't claim support from any authority and just brought all this up when you ask me if I had any information on stone tools, habitat, or burial sites in the area. This is what i knew, that is all.

4. All I know is the archaeologist just took pictures of one rock, the one I mentioned before. It was the only portable I had at the time. I thought he was interested in it because he took multiple pictures of it. I guess you know more than him.

Let's get something completely clear. I have made no claims. I have just brought up what if's everywhere in these threads. Did you not see the question mark in the initial description. I even wrote, published, multiple articles that my opinions were just that, opinions. I wrote how important pareidolia was in this and how different people could see different things as in left brain or right brain. The only thing I can do is give my opinion with any supporting evidence I may have. What fringe claims have I made? I have never claimed an ancient civilization existed here, I only ask the question DID an ancient civilization exist here? Who am I to make such claims, I can only try to tell my story the best i can.  The rocks and any possible prehistoric cultural influences talked about in these threads  plays a small but important role in my book. It is not the premise of my book. I use it in my descriptions of my book only in question form. It is the hook of the storyline. The scope of my book is far bigger and more important. (in my opinion) 

[jmccr8]

9 hours ago, BlueHeron said:

I am a newby to forums and admittedly started out very clumsy.

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

44 minutes ago, BlueHeron said:

I don't appreciate you questioning my integrity, I have been as honest as I can be in all these threads.

 

44 minutes ago, BlueHeron said:

The rocks and any possible prehistoric cultural influences talked about in these threads  plays a small but important role in my book. It is not the premise of my book.

Just for the sake of clarification you have said that you are a newbie in one post then a page later and twice in one post you state threads, how many sites are you posting this theory on or do you have more than one thread on this subject in this forum?

jmccr8

[jmccr8]

51 minutes ago, BlueHeron said:

The archaeologist and I just came up with a plan to maintain and protect the site. It was completely my responsibility to follow it. He was just offering advice on best practices. The State of Va was in no way going to expend any funds for this expenditure. However he was very forthcoming with good advice. He told me to work on only one rock formation at a time. At the time, about 4 years ago, the rock formations were completely covered in brush and could hardly be seen. This is before any portables were found and only one or so formations were visible.

So in the last 4 yrs has the archaeologist been back to the site since to look at what you have uncovered, and what was the assessment of any findings. To the best of my knowledge that when significant finds are verified the scientific community gets involved. If there have been no additional inspections of the site then personally I am suspicious of the validity of the story that you are telling. If there have been it would be in your interest to share that as well as any documentation that may support your theory.

jmccr8 

[ChrLzs]

While I'm happy to chip in with some analysis if that is possible.... I'd like to be able to cut straight to the chase.

Which is the 'best' video, when (timing in MIN:SS) is/are the anomaly/ies, and what exactly is being claimed here, in terms of the paranormal/supernatural business?  I hope it's a little better evidenced than the rest of the topics in this thread...

 

I would make a coupla preliminary comments before getting started:

These 'Ordro' video cameras seem to be fairly ordinary rebadged camcorders with near-IR night vision.  It's a very common type of camcorder (or was, going back 5-10 years when they were in their last heyday..), and this one appears to have just a single IR illumination LED on the front.  All that means the overall quality will be so-so, and the range in NV mode will not be very good.  It seems some of these cameras have been grabbed by enterprising paranormal-pushers, who may have made a small modification (usually that just means removing the UV filter) and then somehow claim the camera now does 'Full Spectrum'.  That's a silly and misleading claim, and makes no sense unless they replaced the entire sensor with something more capable - in which case they should specify the spectrum range covered.  As it is a night vision camera already, that means the IR filter is already able to be removed from the optical path internally, so .. if all they do is remove the UV filter there will only be a very small extra part of the spectrum (just the very near-UV range) visible.  And removing that filter is generally a bad idea if you use the camera in sunlight - you run the risk of accelerated degradation of the sensor over time..  And no-one has yet justified that anything paranormal is better seen outside the visible spectrum...

As to identifying things from video footage, often the quality just isn't there especially when takne by someone unfamiliar with good video practice, or with how best to set up their equipment.  Frankly, if those screen grabs are anything to go by..... bzzzt.  If the rest of the footage is that poorly illuminated, exposed and focused, then the chances I can pull any identifying detail out are very low indeed.  Both images are way too small (please find an imaging expert to help you post your stuff, OP - you should not present cropped, post-processed or otherwise 'enhanced' images, unless you know what you are doing,.. That purply-blue image has clearly been posterised to an inch of its life (ie colors adjusted upwards, contrast increased ridiculously to the point where detail was lost - plus a very suspicious square edge where I would guess something was erased/blacked out) ...  The three image set appears to at least be un-posterised... but they are clearly reduced and cropped (a definite no-no).  The detail in those is not sufficient to make a call - but it looks a lot like flying insects and maybe a bit of foliage.

 If all the video footage is of that sort of quality..  please save me some time as it isn't worth bothering.

Edited March 5, 2017 by ChrLzs
removed ironic spelling error.. "scamera"?? :)

[stereologist]

I looked at the photo in the article that is labeled. It shows Clover Hollow Mountain. For those unfamiliar with the region of the country, mountains tend to be long ridges, not single summits as we often think of mountains. The Clover Hollow Mountain marked in the photo is a small part of an extended ridge. Sinking Creek also marked in the photo parallels the mountain.  What is clear is that there is a road on the south side of the creek. A check of the map shows that Sinking Creek runs on the south side of the road along the Clover Hollow Mountain section. Something isn't quite right there.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clover+Hollow+Mountain/@37.3287327,-80.4515537,14.02z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x884db8acf5117cbd:0x97d93b072b1053f!8m2!3d37.3398493!4d-80.4478329!5m1!1e4

[stereologist]

Curious issue.

Quote

3. Again, the only agreement that was made was a meeting of the minds in how to protect and maintain the site. He did offer me the advice when talking about the location, be vague or I will have scavengers everywhere. What formal agreement are you talking about. I originally contacted Virginia Tech's Indian studies department and showed them some of the photographs and they contacted the state archaeologist who made a visit within three days. He spent three hours on my property. I don't claim support from any authority and just brought all this up when you ask me if I had any information on stone tools, habitat, or burial sites in the area. This is what i knew, that is all.

I checked Giles property records for properties owned by Miller in Giles Country, Virginia.

The records showed no Dave Miller, but did show a John D Miller.

http://vamanet.com/cgi-bin/MAPSEARCH2?LOCAL=GIL&ORDER=NAM&LSTNAM=miller&FSTNAM=&INMAP=&ININS=&INDCIR=&INBLOCK=&INLOT=&ADDNUM=&ADDST=&RECNUM=0&TYPE=RES&NORECS=10

Quote

Miller John D

46 12E

105 Clover Hollow Rd

.44

90,600

Dwelling

 

It appears that the site is right in the town.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/105+Clover+Hollow+Rd,+Newport,+VA+24128/@37.303723,-80.4897906,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x884dc0f914e84be5:0x171fb6b957ecd93!8m2!3d37.302396!4d-80.49221?hl=en

Having caved in the area I am curious to see the rocks in the area to see if they are different or not. My recollection of the area is that the rocks shown in the article are normal for that area.

[BlueHeron]

In my book I never used the term civilization, that was created by the editors at Ancient-Origins in question form to bring in readers I guess. I am clear in my articles that this is just an hypothesis based on the information in the articles. I am emphatic that pareidolia plays a major role in these theories. My book however brings up a much better hypotheses however that my ancestors, the first colonist in the area,  the founding fathers of the New River German Settlement, picked out the property I now own as a mill site, and built their colony unintentionally on top of a much older colony I call The Lost Tribe of Clover Hollow. This is the Iconoclastic behavior I talk about in the articles and my book. I compare it to how the Spanish built on top of the Inca who in turn built on top of the pre-Inca. The real mystery comes in when I hypothesize how supernatural activity comes into the picture and plays a role in bringing me to this property when I bought this property sight unseen and knowing nothing about it while I was in Papua New Guinea. The story is so complex it has taken me a year to learn how even to describe it. These threads have opened my eyes to how confusing I have been, not so in my book, it will give you chills as I talk about the bizarre coincidences that had to have happened for me to be here. Thanks to all for clearing up in my head about this and am now in the process of rewriting my description for Amazon among others. Thank you for your hard nose look into this matter. The history behind this property and the area is also fascinating. I have connected it to George Washington, Col James Patton, Col William Preston, Christopher Gist (saved George Washington's life three times), the French and Indian War, the Draper's Meadow massacre, the Shawnee, Iroquois, and the Cherokee. 

[BlueHeron]

3 hours ago, stereologist said:

I looked at the photo in the article that is labeled. It shows Clover Hollow Mountain. For those unfamiliar with the region of the country, mountains tend to be long ridges, not single summits as we often think of mountains. The Clover Hollow Mountain marked in the photo is a small part of an extended ridge. Sinking Creek also marked in the photo parallels the mountain.  What is clear is that there is a road on the south side of the creek. A check of the map shows that Sinking Creek runs on the south side of the road along the Clover Hollow Mountain section. Something isn't quite right there.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clover+Hollow+Mountain/@37.3287327,-80.4515537,14.02z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x884db8acf5117cbd:0x97d93b072b1053f!8m2!3d37.3398493!4d-80.4478329!5m1!1e4

Arn't you the energetic sleuth. The photo in question is a cropped panoramic picture from an angle you don't have access to. It was the only way to get everything in the picture. 

[cormac mac airt]

28 minutes ago, BlueHeron said:

In my book I never used the term civilization, that was created by the editors at Ancient-Origins in question form to bring in readers I guess. I am clear in my articles that this is just an hypothesis based on the information in the articles. I am emphatic that pareidolia plays a major role in these theories. My book however brings up a much better hypotheses however that my ancestors, the first colonist in the area,  the founding fathers of the New River German Settlement, picked out the property I now own as a mill site, and built their colony unintentionally on top of a much older colony I call The Lost Tribe of Clover Hollow. This is the Iconoclastic behavior I talk about in the articles and my book. I compare it to how the Spanish built on top of the Inca who in turn built on top of the pre-Inca. The real mystery comes in when I hypothesize how supernatural activity comes into the picture and plays a role in bringing me to this property when I bought this property sight unseen and knowing nothing about it while I was in Papua New Guinea. The story is so complex it has taken me a year to learn how even to describe it. These threads have opened my eyes to how confusing I have been, not so in my book, it will give you chills as I talk about the bizarre coincidences that had to have happened for me to be here. Thanks to all for clearing up in my head about this and am now in the process of rewriting my description for Amazon among others. Thank you for your hard nose look into this matter. The history behind this property and the area is also fascinating. I have connected it to George Washington, Col James Patton, Col William Preston, Christopher Gist (saved George Washington's life three times), the French and Indian War, the Draper's Meadow massacre, the Shawnee, Iroquois, and the Cherokee. 

You are, however, responsible for using it here* and have to date provided no evidence that the designation "civilization" is either warranted or relevant to the speculations/hypotheses you've made in the OP. As you've also provided no actual, verifiable evidence of a "Lost Tribe" (regardless of tribal affiliation) one must contend that the mention of same in the thread title is more wishful thinking than anything based on fact.

* and therefore just as responsible for the error as the editors at Ancient-Origins that you wish to pin it on

cormac

[jmccr8]

So it would appear that we will only be getting the mashed potatoes and no meat with this meal.

jmccr8

[cormac mac airt]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

So it would appear that we will only be getting the mashed potatoes and no meat with this meal.

jmccr8

It's more like a wish-sandwich. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYyBZE0kBtE

cormac