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Trump Tower Wiretapped?


Lilly

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42 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

BTW, the popular vote is irrelevant in a US presidential election ...

Due to the arcane system used in UK elections, the current government was voted into power with just 37% of the vote, and the prime minister became prime minister without a single person voting her into that job. Hence, I don't think anyone from the UK can complain about the way US elections are run.

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3 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

.least we know who we're going to get in the cabinet BEFORE  we vote, as the PM can only choose from people who were ELECTED.

Tell me again how Flynn, Sessions, DeVos etc were voted for by the people...

I did not know that ........ wow yeah we really should look at adopting that particular piece of your system. 

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8 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

Uhh you clearly don't understand how the UK voting system works. And if a PM resigns, the party picks the next leader who becomes the PM (and that's the conservative party policy, other parties people directly elect the leader) but maybe you should think about a system like ours...least we know who we're going to get in the cabinet BEFORE  we vote, as the PM can only choose from people who were ELECTED.

Tell me again how Flynn, Sessions, DeVos etc were voted for by the people...

I am British, so I know a bit about how our system works. My point is that it is barely a democratic system. Our first past the post parliamentary system was created as part of the Reform Bill of 1832, and the actual method was chosen by the then prime minister, the un-elected Lord Grey. Yes, our nation is truly democratic!

The turnout at the 2015 election was 65%, so the government was elected with 24% of the eligible vote - so what is your point?

Edited by Derek Willis
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6 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

Conservatives got the most votes and to be fair there was a referendum on changing it and the people rejected it. And I was never preaching of the UK being perfect (we have a Royal Family ffs) but we don't have losers by 3 million here becoming PM..

Yes, I remember the referendum. Trouble was the other option was the Alternative Vote system, which is no better than first past the post, in fact it is worse in many ways because you are forced to give your second and third options to people you might not agree with.

My point is that we in Britain have no right to criticize the US system because we too can vote people into power with a relatively small percentage of the electorate.

I am not taking sides here, but do you think Hillary would have stood down if she had won with a minority of the popular vote? I doubt it.

Edited by Derek Willis
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13 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

Conservatives got the most votes and to be fair there was a referendum on changing it and the people rejected it. And I was never preaching of the UK being perfect (we have a Royal Family ffs) but we don't have losers by 3 million here becoming PM..

lol, 3 millions is nothing, 1\3 1\6th of Los Angeles. that is exactly why we do not use popular vote,

Edited by aztek
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2 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

Yeah, who needs democracy...

by democracy you mean tyranny of majority? no we do not need that.

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If Trump Tower Was Wiretapped, Trump Can Declassify That Right Now

If in fact Trump Tower was wiretapped during the 2016 presidential campaign, as President Trump claimed in several tweets Saturday morning, he can do much more than say so on twitter: Presidents have the power to declassify anything at any time, so Trump could immediately make public any government records of such surveillance. What Trump is saying seems to be a garbled version of previous reporting by the BBC, among other news outlets.

Politico link

That was my first thought when the tweet popped up. I`m in the opinion that the POTUS has unlimited access to all kind of classified files so it would be easy for him to check the relevant sources first to avoid another Tweeter burb.

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48 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

It must really pain you that "4 more years of Obama" is what America actually voted for. I'm sure if Trump won the popular vote and lost the electoral college, you'd have nothing to say about it...republicans need the electoral college so bad and your own boy Trump was HATING the electoral college 4 years ago when he WRONGLY thought Obama won it but lost the popular, despite Obama winning the college and the popular vote. 

It doesn't "pain me" in the least.  Hillary, stupidly, decided to divert campaign manpower and funds from states like Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania to CA and NY in order to bolster her popular vote numbers.  This was done so that she could enter office having won both the electoral and popular votes thereby having the mandate you are jabbering about so hysterically.   Michigan, in particular, railed against this move, telling her staff that the 5% lead they were counting on was nonexistent and Hillary was in serious trouble in the state, a prophetic warning it turns out as she lost Michigan and its 16 electoral votes. 

Well, Hillary did bolster her bolster her popular vote tally in the solidly blue states of New York and California, beating Trump by 5 million votes in those two states but a said, that wasn't the race being run, she lost the race being run and now has only little boys like you to shrilly scream popular vote while Trump sits in the White House.  Now that pains people PPO, not losing race Trump didn't run but hey, I enjoy when the other side appears ignorant, shrill and childish and you are making this a pleasant thread for me so keep it up, I enjoy, very much, humiliating you.

48 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

I'm flattered you have a cute nickname for me.

You shouldn't be flattered PPO, the nickname is an insult to your stated role as an observer.  You are p*** poor at the job and making yourself look worse with every post. 

48 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

 I might do a good job embarrassing myself,

Yes you do but thanks for doubling down@!  :tu:

Quote

but you do a good job of ignoring the facts......but then facts and Trumpets don't tend to mix, unless they're of the alternative variety ;) 

The only fact, here, that matters is Trump won the electoral vote decisively and he did it spending about half of what Hilary did. ;)

Quote

We're not your friends...whatever war you cook up next, you're on your own ;)

Oh I know you're not, that was satire.  The fact that I anger you so immensely gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling and I'll rip into you as much as you want because my side won the election and your side lost. 

BTW, being that you are a PPO, I'll remind you that the democrats didn't just lose the US presidential election, they lost the congressional election, both houses, and got clobbered down-ballot in the states in both the legislative races and governor races.   The fact that the democrats have lost 1200+ elected positions in the last 8 years, and are about to lose the Supreme Court for a generation, is what the real story is here, not that Trump beat Hillary in an ugly presidential election between two really bad candidates.  Your progressive philosophy has been totally rejected in the United States and all your side has left is taunting people about a popular vote that didn't matter.  :tu:

 

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45 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

But that's the same everywhere. In Germany and France, the winner will probably be someone who only has 30/40% of the vote but that means the remaining percent is split between different parties. I'm not complaining about a percentage, Hillary would have only had 25% too if she had won, but not getting the job when 3 million more people voted for you...that's mob rule. Americans like to talk about America being the beacon of democracy and "leader of the free world" but doesn't practise what it preaches.

The system is never going to change anyway, the republican states won't allow it. After all, this is the second Presidency they've won in a short space of time despite not winning over the majority of those who vote.

My point is that all democratic systems are flawed, and I don't see how anyone operating under one given system can complain about another. For instance, I am sure Hillary is pleased the US does not use the two-round system used in, for instance, France. If so, in 1992 Ross Perot would have been eliminated and Bill Clinton would have gone head to head with George Bush. I am guessing here, but I would imagine far more of the 19% of people who supported Perot would have voted for Bush in the final round, in which case Hillary would have gone down in history as the wife of the candidate who lost the 1992 election.

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10 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

 

BTW, being that you are a PPO, I'll remind you that the democrats didn't just lose the US presidential election, they lost the congressional election, both houses, and got clobbered down-ballot in the states in both the legislative races and governor races.   The fact that the democrats have lost 1200+ elected positions in the last 8 years, and are about to lose the Supreme Court for a generation, is what the real story is here, not that Trump beat Hillary in an ugly presidential election between two really bad candidates.  Your progressive philosophy has been totally rejected in the United States and all your side has left is taunting people about a popular vote that didn't matter.  :tu:

 

And trump has single handedly given back all that ground the GOP gained over the last 8 years. The party sure as heck cant count on the dems running a candidate as bad as hillary again and the Trumpster is an obvious embarrassment to all but the most partisan at this point. 

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1 hour ago, aztek said:

by democracy you mean tyranny of majority? no we do not need that.

Haha.LMAO.

So democracy is mob rule by another name?

Hey, we can't have democracy because all that means is that the majority get to elect who they want, whereas the minorities don't.

So what system is better?

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Just now, Pop It and Shove It said:

Nice crystal ball you have there, Derek.

You forgot to mention that because of that system in France, parties and ideologies team up if their preferred candidate gets knocked out, so they can stop the candidate they absolutely don't want in. They don't just stop voting period...

Of course they team up, and that is a good system in that it prevents extremists gaining power.  

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Just now, alibongo said:

Haha.LMAO.

So democracy is mob rule by another name?

Hey, we can't have democracy because all that means is that the majority get to elect who they want, whereas the minorities don't.

So what system is better?

In a democracy 51% of the people could theoretically vote to kill the other 49%.  This is why the USA is a democratic republic ruled by laws rather than ruled by the majority.

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1 minute ago, alibongo said:

Haha.LMAO.

So democracy is mob rule by another name?

Hey, we can't have democracy because all that means is that the majority get to elect who they want, whereas the minorities don't.

So what system is better?

Read this Wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Here in the USA we have a Democratic Republic and I think it's a much better system.

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Just now, Pop It and Shove It said:

You didn't kick anyone out mate, your ancestors did. If you're even a British descendant.

see, my point exactly, now denial stage,  get over it.

Edited by aztek
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1 minute ago, aztek said:

yep, right after we kicked brits out, they still can't get over.

I don't think the Brits really mind after all this time.

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Just now, Pop It and Shove It said:

And what if 49% votes to kill 51%? What a stupid argument lol.

In a pure democracy majority rules.  That's why we don't live in a democracy.  If 49% voted to kill the other 51% then they lose and nobody dies.  Get it?  Maybe go back to school or wear a helmet when skating for the next time you hit your head.

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1 minute ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

What on earth are you taking about? Are you high?

No, I know what I'm speaking of and the other person in the conversation is a belligerent child.

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3 minutes ago, Derek Willis said:

I don't think the Brits really mind after all this time.

judging by reaction of few here, some here are  still buthurt. 

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2 minutes ago, aztek said:

judging by reaction of few here, some here are  still buthurt. 

Well, I am fine with it - but I am one-eighth American, so perhaps I still have one foot (or part of one foot) in Pennsylvania. 

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