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Trump Tower Wiretapped?


Lilly

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33 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

Why do we need representatives in a democracy? They are too easy manipulated and easily bribed.

We should just vote on laws and propositions. I really do not see the point of having representatives or political parties. These figure heads are so fake and all have ulterior motives.

We do not live in a democracy BBW, we live in a Republic.  In a democracy the majority rules, in a republic the individual is protected from the majority by law. 

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On 3/5/2017 at 1:52 AM, Captain Risky said:

throws around unverified allegations

You REALLY want to go there?  If the administration has to wait for months (years?) for any evidence to be put forward to buttress the damning accusations being trumpeted by the media 24/7, then I'd say the poor wee snowflakes need to develop a little patience as well.  Childish.

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Just now, OverSword said:

We do not live in a democracy BBW, we live in a Republic.  In a democracy the majority rules, in a republic the individual is protected from the majority by law. 

I agree we live in a representative republic. And law is the rule. Its the representatives I have a problem with.

I trust 75% of my neighbors

I trust 1% of politicians

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12 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

. Where would that leave the south though?

yea, south is not in its best shape. maybe we need to find how to create jobs there, than maybe, just maybe welfare thing will get sorted out easy. 

there are people that want to work, but none is around them, and those who do not want to, all they want is that check.

Edited by aztek
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7 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

Because It takes power away from big business, lobbiest, the industrial military prison complex. They have a lot to lose.

in no reasonable scenario any of them will give up power. it would have to  be country wide armed revolt, that will destroy a country, a lot more than political system we have now.

 

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1 minute ago, aztek said:

in no reasonable scenario any of them will give up power.

And thus we are stuck with lying politicians, secrets and obfuscations, and a divided nation. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

"Protected from the majority" :lol: You seem like a warrior for the minority, why aren't you sticking up for your minority Muslim brothers and sisters?

Unfortunately it's against the forum rules to call someone a troll or to cite the rules. B)

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2 hours ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

It must really pain you that "4 more years of Obama" is what America actually voted for.

So Putin "hacked" the U.S. elections (there are 50 individual versions btw) and caused Trump to be elected?  Yet HRC won the popular vote by a "huge" margin?  You really have to help me out here.  Those 50 elections were all managed by the individual states.  None that I'm aware of were completely online.  The great majority weren't even connected to the net.  You are making these claims so it's on you to offer a little proof, wouldn't you say?

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3 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

And thus we are stuck with lying politicians, secrets and obfuscations, and a divided nation. 

 

 

yea, but the last one has nothing to do with politicians. 

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19 minutes ago, Pop It and Shove It said:

Poor Trumpet, The Donald has already ruled out going after Hillary.

Once again your poor observing skills have embarrassed you.  Trump, as president, wouldn't go after Hillary, the FBI and Dept. of Justice would and he most notably didn't say a word about those agencies.  There are currently five different FBI offices investigating Hillary and the Clinton Foundation.

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Curious, how that bothers you but you have no interest in the Russian ties in Trump's cabinet.

Well, I have heard all the hysteria but every intelligence agency asked has said that after a thorough investigation that have found no evidence of collusion.  You have to read the whole article to get to that part so maybe a little stick-to-itiveness on your part next time.

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My education was most likely superior to yours,

Oh I rather doubt that based on the quality of your posts and the childishness of your arguments.

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after all you're the one who is one step away from advocating dictatorship in America, not me. Why bother with elections at all?  Let's put you in charge, you know what's best - no need for everyone else to have a say

You see, this is the childishness I mentioned above.  You sound like an 11 year old arguing with his mother.  What does this even mean?  :no: :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Merc14
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3 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

You see, this is the childishness I mentioned above.  You sound like an 11 year old arguing with his mother.  What does this even mean?  :no: :rolleyes:

 

From what I have seen in the last 24 hours, it means that any response to PISI is a mistake, period.

Or maybe he's just having a bad day.

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I just wanted to say that I have lived in California all my life and have never felt i have had a voice in any election.

Because it is a electoral college system and electoral points are not divided upon vote percentage (winner takes all here) and it is late in the election day and projections are already clear. 

A system that makes my vote feel futile is not a good one.

I would also like to add that my whole life I have been told that voting for a third party is a throw away vote. It is implied i must fall inline with the lesser of two evils. Why must i choose evil?

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28 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Oh so as long as the electors weren't influenced by a foreign superpower's attempts to influence the election - apparently in collusion with one of the candidates - none of it matters .........OK 

you got it right, as long as electors were not influenced, which would mean elections themselves were not influenced either, noting else matters.

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 Why did Obama in his last days in  office kick out  35 Russian operatives he claimed to be bad but  kept the  Russian ambassador Kislyak in ,  the guy that he is claiming is bad? if he was so bad why did Obama keep him around?

 

 

Edited by Ellapennella
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Just now, BlackBearWolf said:

I just wanted to say that I have lived in California all my life and have never felt i have had a voice in any election.

Because it is a electoral college system and electoral points are not divided upon vote percentage (winner takes all here) and it is late in the election day and projections are already clear. 

A system that makes my vote feel futile is not a good one.

I would also like to add that my whole life I have been told that voting for a third party is a throw away vote. It is implied i must fall inline with the lesser of two evils. Why must i choose evil?

to be fair electoral college is only involved when presidential elections happen, local election are decided by popular vote, so you do have a vote, on state matters,

you were told right, during presidential election, third party votes are throw away votes. actually any vote is irrelevant during those times. third party or first one. unless you are elector.

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The thing about this is now, Obama is subject of  investigation now, you know how he & the Clinton's are not fans of  the law,  I don't think he counted on things going this way because it's  happening he's getting investigated.

 

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2 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

I just wanted to say that I have lived in California all my life and have never felt i have had a voice in any election.

Because it is a electoral college system and electoral points are not divided upon vote percentage (winner takes all here) and it is late in the election day and projections are already clear. 

A system that makes my vote feel futile is not a good one.

THe Electoral College system is there to limit the effects of corruption, practically all of Hillary's advantage in the popular vote came from just two states, and Cali is one of them. 

Would you want the Dead of Chicago deciding the election for you?

 

2 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

I would also like to add that my whole life I have been told that voting for a third party is a throw away vote. It is implied i must fall inline with the lesser of two evils. Why must i choose evil?

You must NOT do that.

Years ago, I was tempted to vote for a guy named Perot .... I took that as a sign that I was losing it so I didn't vote at all that year. :P

 

However, the 3rd Party will always remain a long shot, until people ignore the propaganda, act like they have a pair and VOTE THIER CONSCIENCE. 

You know, like 40% did in 1860.

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18 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Well said.

Boom, there it is.

Those things did happen, and I know that asking anyone to improve themselves will get me attacked, but that's just human nature.

My concern in all of this is that the Democrats will drift further and further from Reality itself, and cease to be a viable alternative. Tyranny by EITHER party leads to the very same thing; a crew of fat dumb & happy Aristocrats leading the nation on a downhill slide into oblivion. 

 

If you are a Democrat, this Libertarian has a question for you; why is there not the slightest attempt by any of you to take a long, hard look at your own policies and platform to try and figure out where you went wrong with that, instead of all this focus on "messaging" and "image" ?

Consider the idea that the People did get the message, and didn't like it much.

For the first time in a century, the time might just be right for something new and original. 

 

I'm probably a lot older than you and so remember the Reagan years vividly and the democrats did the same thing back then, they veered wildly left and went off the rails emotionally for a few years until the ruling class retired or were voted out and then a more "moderate element, "Bill Clinton" moved in and took over a devastated democrat party.  Simultaneously the republicans convinced themselves that Reagan wasn't real and their failed policies prior to him were what is best and so we got Bush the first and were subsequently kicked to the curb for a decade.  Swings back and forth constantly.

Granted, this current rejection of the democrats is, arguably, the largest in a century so I may be wrong but I see a lot of the old guard in the DNC dying out but have no idea who will replace them as their state and local benches have been annihilated!  Even more worrisome is that the places the democrats hold power are radically left wing and likely to stay that way so maybe you are spot on and we will see something new here.  Trump isn't really a republican so possibly his middle of the road politics will be the start of a third party made up of the Reagan democrats and centrist republicans and sitting squarely in the middle where most independents live.   

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9 minutes ago, aztek said:

yea, but the last one has nothing to do with politicians. 

I am not so sure. 

I assume you believe a culture war would happen without the rhetoric of of both parties. 

But i believe its a false narrative.

Americans are really not different at all. we all basically want and do the same thing every day.

Eat, sleep, poop.

It is so simple. do not do harm to others.  

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4 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

I'm probably a lot older than you and so remember the Reagan years vividly and the democrats did the same thing back then, they veered wildly left and went off the rails emotionally for a few years until the ruling class retired or were voted out and then a more "moderate element, "Bill Clinton" moved in and took over a devastated democrat party.  Simultaneously the republicans convinced themselves that Reagan wasn't real and their failed policies prior to him were what is best and so we got Bush the first and were subsequently kicked to the curb for a decade.  Swings back and forth constantly.

Granted, this current rejection of the democrats is, arguably, the largest in a century so I may be wrong but I see a lot of the old guard in the DNC dying out but have no idea who will replace them as their state and local benches have been annihilated!  Even more worrisome is that the places the democrats hold power are radically left wing and likely to stay that way so maybe you are spot on and we will see something new here.  Trump isn't really a republican so possibly his middle of the road politics will be the start of a third party made up of the Reagan democrats and centrist republicans and sitting squarely in the middle where most independents live.   

That would be a wonderful thing.

Hell yeah, I would LOVE to see that!

But.... would they have to set up a 3rd set of bathrooms on Capitol Hill? 

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11 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

THe Electoral College system is there to limit the effects of corruption, practically all of Hillary's advantage in the popular vote came from just two states, and Cali is one of them. 

Would you want the Dead of Chicago deciding the election for you?

 

You must NOT do that.

Years ago, I was tempted to vote for a guy named Perot .... I took that as a sign that I was losing it so I didn't vote at all that year. :P

 

However, the 3rd Party will always remain a long shot, until people ignore the propaganda, act like they have a pair and VOTE THIER CONSCIENCE. 

You know, like 40% did in 1860.

I get its purpose but all it does is imply that we are so different that our votes should be not counted the same. Just because i live in california I feel like am no different than friends i have from arkansa we all get along great and love each other. But the system implies we are different levels of people and have different needs. I can not see what those needs are that are so different. I feel like a human American. Not a California electoral point. 

Edited by BlackBearWolf
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40 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

When has anyone claimed the voting machine were hacked? You are the only one making that claim...

The claim is they influenced the election by releasing private e-mails of Hillary's campaign manager

The fact they did not hack trumps emails (They probably did) and release them as well shows a preferred candidate they wanted to win.....

 

They are meddling and creating narrative. (All politicians, governments, and news agencies do this) Propaganda!

 anyone fool can recognize this

 

The real problem is with the language - which was chosen specifically to plant a false narrative in the minds of the lazy, low-info types.

HACK - 

use a computer to gain unauthorized access to data in a system.
"they hacked into the bank's computer"

No proof of who hacked Podesta's email has ever been presented.  NONE.  It has only been reported.  My guess is that it's probably a Russian paid by the government there to stir crap in our election.  Considering HRC's obvious, spoken desire to come down hard on Russia, it's no surprise they'd want the "other guy".  So the great sin here is that a source with juicy, embarrassing info was dumping it like raw meat to the media and that the impact of that propaganda harmed HRC, right?  But for the other 18 months or so of the process, when DJT was being vilified, laughed at, and generally scorned and dismissed by EVERY major news outlet and on social media, that isn't supposed to matter, right?  It still hasn't made it into the consciousness of the progs that it was this very avalanche of hate and disrespect that got the man elected.  We'll see dire predictions and polls for the next two years but the proof will be seen the day after the mid-term election.  My prediction is that the Dems will lose at least 8 more Senate seats.  When that happens there will be absolutely NO COVER left for the Republicans who hate Trump.  They'll then have to get on board or be exposed for the globalist shills they've become.  I PRAY that if Trump gets booted from office under circumstances that are not legal or proper, he will go into campaign mode and rally his base to push a Convention of States.  With all the obstructionism and blatant hypocrisy the people are witnessing, it might just have a chance of starting the fire we need to BURN THE SWAMP DOWN!  Term limits, serious curtailment of lobbying, extremely serious prison sentences for corruption and amendments to the laws concerning bureaucrats in government.  Anyone in the Federal bureaucracy that is found leaking is fired, all pension lost and a prison sentence if the leak is of classified material.  IOW, real, serious reform of the government.  It will fail, almost certainly, but at least an attempt will have been made prior to hostilities breaking out.

 

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13 minutes ago, aztek said:

you got it right, as long as electors were not influenced, which would mean elections themselves were not influenced either, noting else matters.

Precious :lol: Just precious 

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 Someone must of all either missed the memo or just didn't get it  when Trump said  he knows how the game is played & that no one can beat him at it because of it & that he's the best at it , this  is just going to drain the swamp , 

 

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2 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

I get its purpose but all it does is imply that we are so different that our votes should be not counted the same. Just because i live in california I feel like am no different than friends i have from arkansa we all get along great and each other. But the system implies we are different levels of people and have different needs. I can not see what those needs are that are so different. I feel like a human American. Not a California electoral point. 

Oh, I get it.

Well, the only states where there is a real chance of the individual having a serious effect are called "Swing States" or "Battlegrounds" .... and during an election cycle they get hammered 24/7 with political ads and phone calls and all kinds of other crap.

Take the good with the bad, I live in a blue state too but that's only because of Portland. The rest of Ory-gun (not Ora-gone, it didn't go anywhere!) is pretty mellow and we can have political talks w/o getting all hysterical.

.... this place, on the other hand, is tarting to trip me out. 

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