Trump Tower Wiretapped?

[BlackBearWolf]

26 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

This vitriol is enough to make anyone crazy but as usual, there is always something that comes along to balance it out.  These two clips are them.  Something to bring a clear voice to the issue.  I refer to perhaps the best journalism we’ve seen in a long time and it comes from the entertainment sector.  We elected Trump to drain the swamp.  I suppose that my beloved Military Industrial Complex is the place to start.  Mind you that the vast majority of the MIC are hardworking, dedicated, loyal, patriots.  For years, people have been so paranoid of this mythical unwarranted influence that the MIC could wield over the government.  It never has materialized.  How little did we know that it would end up being the other way around?  Like all machines, if you give it faulty programming, it will act erratically.  I believe that this explains Comey’s actions.  Here is a dedicated, loyal servant and he is fed corrupt programming.  The same thing happened to the Banking sector 10 years ago when Frank-Dodd was introduced.  And then there is Clapper.  You can tell he’s CYA.  You notice that in his interview he only mentions about 4 (of the 17) agencies when he uses Plausible Deniability to say that he is not aware of a FISA request. 

 

 

 

Because of EO 12333, which was issued just weeks before the end of Obama’s Presidency, the way intel is disseminated was changed.  Before, raw data would be given to the NSA and they would disseminate the info to where they thought it should go.  It would be date-time stamped as to when and from who.  Now, raw data is available to any of the 17 agencies and no one can be sure the source.  So a wiretap could have been performed by any of the other 13 that Clapper never mentioned and it gets dropped into the pipeline to all.  This is going to be one of those follow-the-paper-trail exercises.  Just need to find which of the other 13 agencies the Washington Post/New York TImes had an inside contact with?  Then heads will roll.  So for those of you dis’n Trump, enjoy your fun for the moment you will soon be experiencing gnashing of teeth.  The underlying question still remains, where did the leak come from (of which we still do not know the content – just metadata (another clue)).  ETA: Where was Flynn when he was tapped?  Pick your poison, there are felonies any way you slice it.  Trump called your bluff and now the MSM doesn’t know what it’s doing.  Trump will have enough to not only hang Hilary on her corruption but also Obama and his apparatus which includes the MSM.  I wonder how many ignorant replies this is going to get and they won’t even view these two clips completely??

 

 

 

 

 

Im trying to follow along here.

Just a few questions?

Is the claim now that Obama was illegally wiretapping Trump without Fisa warrants? And the Intelligence agencies are covering for him?

Did the Intelligence agencies have probable cause for surveillance on Trump campaign? Or is the arguement that they didnt have any cause?

Why did manafort and Flynn resign?

Why are comey and clapper saying Obama didnt order anything?

[RavenHawk]

4 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

Im trying to follow along here.

Just a few questions?

Is the claim now that Obama was illegally wiretapping Trump without Fisa warrants? And the Intelligence agencies are covering for him?

Did the Intelligence agencies have probable cause for surveillance on Trump campaign? Or is the arguement that they didnt have any cause?

Why did manafort and Flynn resign?

Why are comey and clapper saying Obama didnt order anything?

All very good questions.  I think you are following well enough.  Congress needs and will get to the bottom of this.  But given the nature and character of both Administrations, the important answers will be readily available.  Are a lot of people going to get burned?  Yes and it will hurt this nation severely but sometimes to cut out the cancer requires cutting some good tissue.

[BlackBearWolf]

9 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

All very good questions.  I think you are following well enough.  Congress needs and will get to the bottom of this.  But given the nature and character of both Administrations, the important answers will be readily available.  Are a lot of people going to get burned?  Yes and it will hurt this nation severely but sometimes to cut out the cancer requires cutting some good tissue.

 

Then both parties should be demanding a independent investigation into getting to the bottom of everything. But it seems as if Trumps campaign is resisting this for whatever reason,  but it doesnt make them look good with all the resigning and recusing and claiming no invesgation needed because "nothing happened". 

 Lets demand investigations unilaterally so we can clear the presidents name and he can get back to work or find out he is corrupt and needs to go. And if Obama or Hillary are implicated then they need to do time as well. Its time for accountability!  No more politicians getting away with this crap!

 

[Farmer77]

18 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

Then both parties should be demanding a independent investigation into getting to the bottom of everything. But it seems as if Trumps campaign is resisting this for whatever reason,  but it doesnt make them look good with all the resigning and recusing and claiming no invesgation needed because "nothing happened". 

 Lets demand investigations unilaterally so we can clear the presidents name and he can get back to work or find out he is corrupt and needs to go. And if Obama or Hillary are implicated then they need to do time as well. Its time for accountability!  No more politicians getting away with this crap!

 

A voice of reason! 

[RavenHawk]

34 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

Then both parties should be demanding a independent investigation into getting to the bottom of everything. But it seems as if Trumps campaign is resisting this for whatever reason,  but it doesnt make them look good with all the resigning and recusing and claiming no invesgation needed because "nothing happened".

Well, both should be but I think only the GOP is calling for a full investigation.  The Left is pivoting.  They don’t want a full investigation.  They only want to investigate what will make Trump look bad. 

 

What campaign?  Trump won, he *IS* President.  And I think Trump is calling for it or why would he have stated his claim?  The key question for Trump I think, is “Where was Flynn when he was being tapped?”

 

“ALL” this resigning and recusing??  WTF?  You mentioned Manafort?  He has nothing to do with this Administration.  He resigned long before Trump was elected President and I think it was because he had business dealings with Ukraine, not Russia.  Don't you think that people resign all the time because it just isn't working out for them?  That's no indication of a federal case.

 

Flynn disrespected the VP plus, I think that the Trump Administration wanted so much to be above appearance of corruption, Flynn fell on his sword but they didn’t know how veracious the Left was going to be about going after other cabinet members.  I think that Flynn was just the one freebie for the Left.  Sessions recuses himself because he is involved in the accusation.  That is what he is supposed to do.  This is not the Holder/Lynch DOJ.  Besides, if you want to cover your trail in the bureaucracy, going after the NSA director and Attorney General would be who you would target.  Resigning and recusing for an intelligent person doesn’t mean anything on its own.  That just gives the feebleminded a carnival show.

 

Oh, plenty is happening and the Left is pivoting but they’ve crawled up on the stove and all their weight is on their hands and Trump just turned on the heat.  Now it looks like Assange is piling on.  I don’t think Assange is trying to help Trump but it gives him a great segue for his leaks.  This isn’t done and it’s going to be a hot summer for the Left.  And I think some Republican Establishment types are going to get singed as well.  The paper trail is going to be too great.

 

 Lets demand investigations unilaterally so we can clear the presidents name and he can get back to work or find out he is corrupt and needs to go. And if Obama or Hillary are implicated then they need to do time as well. Its time for accountability!  No more politicians getting away with this crap!

We don’t have to demand anything.  There are at least two investigations going on.  One in the House and the other in the Senate.  Gowdy is leading the House one and He’s going to be a bulldog.  He’ll get to the bottom of things.  But you’ll see the Left fight him at every step.  But this is how you begin to drain the swamp.  Anyway, you seem hooked on the wrong talking points.  The accused is usually presumed innocent and this isn’t a kangaroo court.  We’ll know the facts soon enough.

[Farmer77]

4 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

  The accused is usually presumed innocent and this isn’t a kangaroo court.  We’ll know the facts soon enough.

Just to highlight the inanity of all of this , who exactly are we presuming is innocent ? Trump or the person he publicly accused of illegally wiretapping him? 

[RavenHawk]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

Just to highlight the inanity of all of this , who exactly are we presuming is innocent ? Trump or the person he publicly accused of illegally wiretapping him? 

In this situation, I’ll settle for both.  Let’s follow the money and find out.  But I do admit that after Trump called the bluff of the Left with his accusation appears to have caused the Left to reel.  And now their hand has been caught in the cookie jar.  The Left are already trying to determine a fall guy.  I think they’ll give up the one that did the original illegal wiretap and leaked it because he is obviously so far down in the chain, he can’t implicate those at the top.  I’ve got my popcorn ready.  In the meantime, Obamacare will be replaced, a travel ban will be established, a wall will be built, tax code will be updated, and jobs will come back.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, BlackBearWolf said:

Im trying to follow along here.

Just a few questions?

Is the claim now that Obama was illegally wiretapping Trump without Fisa warrants? And the Intelligence agencies are covering for him?

Did the Intelligence agencies have probable cause for surveillance on Trump campaign? Or is the arguement that they didnt have any cause?

Why did manafort and Flynn resign?

Why are comey and clapper saying Obama didnt order anything?

Because Obama is no fool and he didn't order it.....directly?  Because underlings whose jobs were on the line took a hint or took it on themselves to do it? Don't forget this administration's history of over-reaching in intelligence gathering. Finding a smoking gun would have made how it was found, incidental.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

snip

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[RavenHawk]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

 

Yes, that was clear in the first version - if you were curious.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, that was clear in the first version - if you were curious.

Hit quote instead of edit.

[RavenHawk]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Hit quote instead of edit.

Then you need to recuse and resign from the forum immediately! 

[+Hammerclaw]

20 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Then you need to recuse and resign from the forum immediately! 

 

I will not be silenced, sir, unlike the press who have gone from baroque disbelief to sudden stony silence on the topic. The truth and their own cleverness has come back to bite their backsides, I suspect. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[+Hammerclaw]

After having a good laugh over their lattes and cappuccino, the press must have idly lifted the rock over the President's outrageous accusations and were shocked into silence by the squirming mass they found beneath.

[MWoo7]

22 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

and were shocked into silence by the squirming mass they found beneath.

A poet eh?   UUUpdate ! I meant creative writing

Gnostic ehm ? Druid hahahahaha !

I for one absolutely LOVE clever writing !

Edited March 7, 2017 by MWoo7

[ellapenella]

29 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I will not be silenced, sir, unlike the press who have gone from baroque disbelief to sudden stony silence on the topic. The truth and their own cleverness has come back to bite their backsides, I suspect. 

 

[skliss]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Because Obama is no fool and he didn't order it.....directly?  Because underlings whose jobs were on the line took a hint or took it on themselves to do it? Don't forget this administration's history of over-reaching in intelligence gathering. Finding a smoking gun would have made how it was found, incidental.

Exactly, history of over-reach..... look at James Rosen and wiretapping him for no reason. IMO they really thought that they could absolutely do anything they wanted because they believed Hillary would win and it would all be ignored and those involved would be protected.

[ellapenella]

Oh the news, pants on fire liars

 

[Merc14]

1 hour ago, skliss said:

Exactly, history of over-reach..... look at James Rosen and wiretapping him for no reason. IMO they really thought that they could absolutely do anything they wanted because they believed Hillary would win and it would all be ignored and those involved would be protected.

Remember way back when Matt Lauer had the audacity to ask Hillary about her email server and she went back stage and threw a raging tantrum, screaming at her hatchetmen for not sufficiently muzzling Lauer beforehand?  One of the things she was reported to have screamed was "If that F#####G b****** wins we all hang from nooses!!" and I have often wondered what horrors she had committed that were so egregious she needed the presidency to cover them up?  Of course there is the Clinton Foundation and her public corruption but I would guess there are a lot more ugly things and Obama probably had his hand in some of them.

With regard to the above, the problem the democrats are forgetting is that they aren't in power and that these investigations they are clamoring for have a strange way of exposing other scandals and crimes once the rocks start getting turned over.  How many crimes did Holder and Lynch cover up simply by not impaneling a grand jury with subpoena power?  Another problem they should've though about is Hillary no longer has the power to shut her minions up, the threat of retribution is long gone, forever, and so people will sing rather than go to jail for the reprobates. 

I think the MSM is just now realizing that this game they are playing isn't the same one they have been playing since the Clintons took power and took over the DNC 20 years ago.  Trump isn't intimidated by their attacks and the Clinton/Obama machine doesn't have the power to punish and harass witnesses because none of these people will ever be in power again.   Sessions needs to root out the leakers and throw them in jail and then impanel a grand jury when the FBI reports they have enough to prosecute Clinton and her foundation.            

Edited March 7, 2017 by Merc14

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, Ellapennella said:

 

 

48 minutes ago, Ellapennella said:

Oh the news, pants on fire liars

 

Ella, these videos are not evidence.  They are hearsay. 

[MWoo7]

Merc's dissertations and treatise are killing me softly

But I can't stop reading ahahhahahahaha !~:D

Edited March 7, 2017 by MWoo7

[thedutchiedutch]

15 hours ago, and then said:

http://lidblog.com/same-ny-times-reporter/

On January 19th and 20th 2017, The NY Times reported that wiretaps of people on the Trump team were passed along to the Obama White House, one of the story’s authors was Michael S. Schmidt. On Saturday that same Michael S. Schmidt was one of the reporters who wrote the story, “Trump, Offering No Evidence, Says Obama Tapped His Phones.” That’s right, the same NY Times reporter who was one of the sources for the President’s claim, said that there was no evidence for the claim.

The first story by Mr. Schmidt appeared on the NY Times website the evening of January 19, 2017 and appeared on the front page of the paper the morning of Inauguration Day, January 20, 2017:

Trump's "team" were subjected to taps looking for crimes.  When none were found, the DoJ made the issue on of national security and the FISA court judge issued a warrant for wiretapping.  You can spin that any way you like but the bottom line is that a sitting US president asked for and received permission to wiretap a presidential candidate from the opposition.  Obama's DoJ does NOTHING without his approval.  This may seem funny to you folks across the pond but when real violence breaks out in this country, you're apt to be paying a lot more for everything.  Global markets get jittery when the Fed chair breaks wind without advanced warning.  Imagine the effect of civil unrest and bloodshed in multiple US cities over the perceived lawlessness of this coup attempt.  All it will take is an exchange of gunfire at a protest and then it will be ON.

 

Look, it's simple. Trump tweeted "How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!" This is a serious accusation and the burden of proof lies with the party making the assertion. Why isn't Trump producing it ? He could have Obama arrested if this is true. Stop deflecting and concentrate on the real issue here and that is that Trump is full of crap.

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by thedutchiedutch

[RavenHawk]

6 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Stop deflecting and concentrate on the real issue here and that is that Trump is full of crap.

That is deflecting.  That is not an issue.  It is an opinion.  The real issue is, “Who tapped Flynn?”

[Paranormal Panther]

19 hours ago, BlackBearWolf said:

But the truth is you do not know what kind of cake you are getting with Donald either.

If you got to see what his emails are like I am sure you would have a much better understanding of the type of cake he is. 

That's true, but we know that the Clinton cake is poison. Let's work with the recipe that we actually have.

[thedutchiedutch]

8 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That is deflecting.  That is not an issue.  It is an opinion.  The real issue is, “Who tapped Flynn?”

 

The real issue is that Trump made accusations without proof and without proof you are basically making a hopeless case out of thin air and when you are making a hopeless case out of thin air you are full of crap in my opinion.