Trump Tower Wiretapped?

[Paranormal Panther]

5 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Now we have evidence that Susan Rice was requesting the unmasking of names related to the Trump transition team, something she denied knowing anything about a month ago.  https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/top-obama-adviser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel

White House lawyers last month learned that the former national security adviser Susan Rice requested the identities of U.S. persons in raw intelligence reports on dozens of occasions that connect to the Donald Trump transition and campaign, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

The pattern of Rice's requests was discovered in a National Security Council review of the government's policy on "unmasking" the identities of individuals in the U.S. who are not targets of electronic eavesdropping, but whose communications are collected incidentally. Normally those names are redacted from summaries of monitored conversations and appear in reports as something like "U.S. Person One."

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Rice herself has not spoken directly on the issue of unmasking. Last month when she was asked on the "PBS NewsHour" about reports that Trump transition officials, including Trump himself, were swept up in incidental intelligence collection, Rice said: "I know nothing about this," adding, "I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that account today."

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Rice's requests to unmask the names of Trump transition officials does not vindicate Trump's own tweets from March 4 in which he accused Obama of illegally tapping Trump Tower. There remains no evidence to support that claim. 

But Rice's multiple requests to learn the identities of Trump officials discussed in intelligence reports during the transition period does highlight a longstanding concern for civil liberties advocates about U.S. surveillance programs. The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything. This suggests Rice's unmasking requests were likely within the law.

 

 

Nunes Says Trump Team Caught in U.S. Surveillance Net

 

I'm watching the Lester Holt newscast. He said nothing about this. My guess is that the same can be said for ABC and CBS. NBC reported on O'Reilly, though. It was the third story. The Democratic propagandists likely will avoid and ignore this huge story. That should greatly concern all Americans. It *should* be obvious why this is concerning.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Paranormal Panther said:

I'm watching the Lester Holt newscast. He said nothing about this. My guess is that the same can be said for ABC and CBS. NBC reported on O'Reilly, though. It was the third story. The Democratic propagandists likely will avoid and ignore this huge story. That should greatly concern all Americans. It *should* be obvious why this is concerning.

Perhaps its because its not a real story yet. I mean she was national security adviser, and I get that trump supporters dont like the fact that he was incidentally listened in on but as national security adviser it was her duty to look into those connections. 

Once there is a connection found to her and the leaking of the information THEN it will become a story. Until then, despite the spin, FOX is basically running with the story "WOMAN DOES HER JOB" 

[Paranormal Panther]

5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Perhaps its because its not a real story yet. I mean she was national security adviser, and I get that trump supporters dont like the fact that he was incidentally listened in on but as national security adviser it was her duty to look into those connections. 

Once there is a connection found to her and the leaking of the information THEN it will become a story. Until then, despite the spin, FOX is basically running with the story "WOMAN DOES HER JOB" 

I would concede your point were it not for the fact that the Democratic propaganda news outlets have a very long record of double standards and hypocrisy. I know that they would scream the story from the rooftops if the political parties were reversed. Just look at their coverage of the Obama administration. Just look at their reporting on the Hillary Wikileaks. Fox News covers and reports the events that are ignored by the Democratic propaganda news outlets. That's one reason that their ratings are so high. People realize that the mainstream news can't be trusted. Fox News also criticizes the conservative side during their hard news programs, but they indeed lean to the right.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Paranormal Panther said:

I would concede your point were it not for the fact that the Democratic propaganda news outlets have a very long record of double standards and hypocrisy. I know that they would scream the story from the rooftops if the political parties were reversed. Just look at their coverage of the Obama administration. Just look at their reporting on the Hillary Wikileaks. Fox News covers and reports the events that are ignored by the Democratic propaganda news outlets. That's one reason that their ratings are so high. People realize that the mainstream news can't be trusted. Fox News also criticizes the conservative side during their hard news programs, but they indeed lean to the right.

 Oh i dont deny the history or the double standard. There is a reason its been known as the "ClintonNewsNetwork" afterall. 

I just dont think its a story , at all, until there is a connection made to the leaks. 

[Merc14]

2 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Perhaps its because its not a real story yet. I mean she was national security adviser, and I get that trump supporters dont like the fact that he was incidentally listened in on but as national security adviser it was her duty to look into those connections. 

Once there is a connection found to her and the leaking of the information THEN it will become a story. Until then, despite the spin, FOX is basically running with the story "WOMAN DOES HER JOB" 

She LIED......AGAIN........on national news.  AGAIN.  TO YOU.  Nunes has the evidence, it is on White House computers and that jackass Schiff saw it as well and yet you defend?   I expect this BS from the likes of einsteinium or crazy yammie but you are better than this farmer.

[Farmer77]

18 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

She LIED......AGAIN........on national news.  AGAIN.  TO YOU.  Nunes has the evidence, it is on White House computers and that jackass Schiff saw it as well and yet you defend?   I expect this BS from the likes of einsteinium or crazy yammie but you are better than this farmer.

What lie am I defending? Im really confused at this point.

Like I said she should have been investigating a presidential candidate with shady connections. As national security adviser I would expect no less and I just cant take any opposition to that seriously. 

That said if she disseminated the information she gathered then nail her to the wall. What about that is so upsetting? 

I have time now so im gonna watch the video you posted in the other thread to see if I can get a better grasp on what it is you are saying. 

[Merc14]

4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

What lie am I defending? Im really confused at this point.

That she had a right to unmask those names which were subsequently leaked to the press.

4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Like I said she should have been investigating a presidential candidate with shady connections. As national security adviser I would expect no less and I just cant take any opposition to that seriously. 

Why?  There is NOTHING there.  They have been investigating him for at est a year and now it is looking like two years and NOTHING.  What the hell are you suggesting is shady?

4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

That said if she disseminated the information she gathered then nail her to the wall. What about that is so upsetting? 

I have time now so im gonna watch the video you posted in the other thread to see if I can get a better grasp on what it is you are saying. 

I am thinking that, maybe, you should do that BEFORE taking a side.

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, Merc14 said:

That she had a right to unmask those names which were subsequently leaked to the press.

Yeah bro I will defend that and I have to think if this werent an Obama appointee you would be doing the same. 

Im in no way defending the leak however. 

[Merc14]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Yeah bro I will defend that and I have to think if this werent an Obama appointee you would be doing the same. 

Im in no way defending the leak however. 

I absolutely would not.  If the conversation suggested collusion then get a FISA warranty ( almost automatic), unmask and maintain evidence as the law dictates.  That did not happen so people's right's were abused which used to be something you and yammie rant against but really don' support.  

Why didn't she get a FISA warranty if she thought there was criminal activity? Have you determined that you and yammie and Susan Rice a proven liar, have a right to decide who deserves to have their constitutional rights abused? 

BTW, you asked for what is going to happen to you so nothing personal.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Merc14

[Tatetopa]

Amidst the politics and lying, and it does appear that both sides take turns obstructing and deceiving, I would like to receive the product I pay for: good governance. I haven't seen much of that in a while now and it looks like it will be  sometime before we see any at all..  Obama needs to write his book and let go, Trump needs to focus, and Hillary really needs to stay gone.  I still have a lot of faith in James Mattis, I hope he doesn't get disgusted and quit.

[Farmer77]

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

  BTW, you asked for what is going to happen to you so nothing personal.

 Huh? What is going to happen to me? Now ya got me all paranoid 

[Yamato]

12 hours ago, Merc14 said:

When you blame a single country for everything that is wrong in the world then you are anti- that country and that is exactly what you do.   

What dies this even mean?

I didn't say thoughtless but since you have suggested adding it I thank you as it does fit.  

I don't blame a single country for everything, you blame a single party.

[RavenHawk]

On 3/31/2017 at 9:56 PM, Einsteinium said:

Merc, Ravenhawk, this post is directed at you both specifically.

I took a bit extra time to read this as it appears to be sincere so I wanted to give it likewise attention.  I’m not sure it has gone in the direction I wanted.  But if this is but a start then we can flesh things out in a separate thread.

 

Both of you have assumed me to be a liberal based on mere sentences or paragraphs of writing that I have posted on here. It is true to an extent. I am a social liberal, but I am a fiscal conservative.

It’s more than just an assumption.  It is the substance of your writing.  Your fiscal conservative seems to be over shadowed by your social liberal.  It astonishes me when someone like Yamato calls me a neocon, yet not too long ago he posted a link that plotted where people were politically and I turn out to be perhaps the most Centrist person on these forums and yet he still calls me a neocon.  I constantly have to remind him.  I am a staunch defense hawk (hence part of my avatar) and an ardent supporter of individual’s rights (American citizens).  Very little infringement by the government.

 

You both have assumed things about me, and I have assumed things about both of you. It is necessary to make assumptions in order to advance a conversation forward, but assumption truly is the mother of most **** ups. It is far better to set aside any assumptions and look at each argument, each claim, on its own merits and see how it stands. In practice this obviously is essentially impossible currently, since we are all humans and have flawed judgement.

No doubt assumptions have been made.  For me, it is based on what and how you write.  Yes, but of course, one needs to look at the merits of each point.  We have flawed judgment but one’s judgment shouldn’t allow one to follow someone else off a cliff.  Logic and common sense should dictate that.  But what is that in today’s world?  The Left have completely lost it over their hatred of Trump, there is no more logic or common sense.

 

Please understand, I do not seek to offend for the sake of offending, I offend for the sake of trying to understand the underlying assumptions being made so as to better gauge a person's real position on specific issues. This forum is a place in which I use to de-stress and gather and vet my high level thinking on the state of the understanding of the general population on issues like politics, science, technology, and ethics.

You are not offending.  PC is getting just a bit too much these days even on this forum.  I remember some of the original flame wars of the early 80s.  We’re still here.  So you are playing Devil’s Advocate, so to speak?  That is fine, but I would think you should give a disclaimer.  But I will note this for now.

 

I cannot divulge the company I work for, or any information that may allow you to deduce that information. The reason why is because as soon as I do that, because of my position in the company and the access to information I have, I would be considered to be speaking for the company and legallly I would therefore be required to have all of my posts read through and edited by lawyers and marketing professionals. If I wanted to speak from an official capacity as a spokesman I would do so openly and without using a pseudonym as I do on here. That being said and knowing that you will take anything I say without any proof of the knowledge I am privy to will be taken with a grain of salt, as I would take any claims being made by anyone else on here claiming without proof any sort of enhanced knowledge on a particular subject.

Sounds like a Jay Leno routine…  I have no problem accepting this as your bona fides.  I can pretty much do the same.  I think many here can.  I think many have insight from many disciplines.  I would imagine most are aware of “things to come”.  But, I don’t think this gives you much of an edge.  You could reveal some technological advancement and we would say ooooh and aaaah and then, so what?

 

The reason why I am bringing this up is because as I have stated before I am privy to future technologies and research information in the technology industry that is going to change everything. Many of you on here and our POTUS whom I have a great deal of respect for, President Donald Trump, as far as I can tell are failing to understand some very game changing fundamental shifts in society that are going to occur in our generations time. This technology shift is going to eclipse the change that radio, telivision, telephone, and automobiles brought to humans all around the world. It is going to happen very quickly, but incrementally, and it is under attack right now.

Sounds interesting but the attack you talk about is wisdom, not ignorance.  And I’m sure Trump is very aware of this technology (even before becoming President).  He’s probably already considered how it will enrich his business (now ours). 

 

Technological advancement without an equal advancement in wisdom is a recipe to disaster.  MAD isn’t the only form.  What I refer to has been written extensively of in the halls of Sci-Fi.  Like “Brave New World” or “Logan’s Run” or “Metropolis” or hundreds of others where humanity has all but been programmed out (i.e. socialistic utopia) and the people are but cogs in a hive mind.  It is the passengers of the SS Axiom.  These are usually extremes but gives insight to the problems of technology without wisdom. 

 

It doesn’t matter how durable goods are delivered to the populace, in order for a nation to be a nation requires a manufacturing base.  That manufacturing may be automated, but human bodies are still needed for programming and maintenance.  And where there is a workforce, you need support services for them.  It’s true that at this point, we can never really conceive of what the future will look like because technology will change but if we don’t hang onto our humanity, man will become enslaved and die.  And new technology isn’t always guaranteed to ‘hit it off’ at first if ever.  Some technology becomes obsolete before it becomes available.  You’ll have to buy the “White Album” again.

 

What I am speaking about specifically are 2 things, the rise of smart automation and its infiltration into every aspect of our lives, and the fundamental increase in our capability to make predictions, solve logistical problems, and optimise resource allocation, among other things, that exascale class high performance computers are going to bring about. These are both under threat by what I call righteous ignorance. An ignorance based on a desire to do good and the want to act on that desire using solutions that are outdated and the implications and outcomes of which are poorly understood and flawed due to the underlying ignorance of the topic.

Ah, the old faith vs reason argument.  Camerlengo Carlo Ventresca’s speech to the Cardinals in “Angels and Demons” is a great example.  “Science and religion are not at odds. Science is simply too young to understand.”  Our capabilities may increase with the aid of more powerful computers but such predictions are still limited by the mind of the programmer.  If the programming is flawed, so is the program, and hence the prediction.  Can perfection come from the imperfect?  Science was invented in Genesis 2 and ever since then, Man struggles with both faith and reason and it is simply that Man lacks full understanding.  We were not meant to have full understanding but it is the journey to get there that drives us.  So why do we think that up and coming technological advancements is going to make life easier?  In some ways it has but in many other ways, it has created more problems.  I.e., the computer.  They are really the same old problems just updated for today’s world.  That’s because we are still Human.  Weak in mind and body.  The Founding Fathers knew this when they created the Constitution.  You must look to human weakness to see how far technology can go.

 

The primary example I can think of to illustrate what I mean by righteous ignorance is the idea that world economics is a zero sum game. This does in fact seem to be a philosophy that Trump at least partically agrees with but is simply just false. A zero sum game would be a game like monopoly, where there is a finite amount of capital available and all players must fight for a share of that capital without the ability to increase the total amount of that capital available.Economics is not a zero sum game. It is possible for all the nations on earth to all increase their wealth without doing so at the expense of other nations, that is a non-zero sum game, everyone nation can in fact be a winner. Now to find a way to put this into practice is basically impossible given that righteous ignorance is so prevalent throughout the world, and this  notion of zero sum game permeates a great many aspects of our society.

I don’t think Trump believes in zero sum.  Zero sum is socialism.  However, given any one point in time (a snapshot), there will be only a finite amount of capital available, but it never stays static.  Trump believes fully in Adam Smith.  He knows that if everyone’s bottom line (not just the corporations) is better off so will his (That’s the Invisible Hand).  If he believed in zero sum, then he’d only be interested in controlling corporate America.  Trump wants to not only help Corporate America but the average Joes (creating businesses) as well.  Trump wants to unleash the raw power of capitalism.  That will directly affect the pace of technological advancement and human wisdom. 

 

Based on that, yes all nations can increase their wealth, but it is up to that nation to realize that wealth.  No other nation can do it for them.  And if it doesn’t then others will.  This has been the way of civilization.  This is not righteous ignorance.  It is simply ignorance on the part of the nation and its people that does not realize their wealth.

 

There is a reason why the idea of zero sum game economically is so pervasive, it is because it has been effectively true for most of human history.

The reason why is because it is crony capitalism or socialism (Authoritarianism or Totalitarianism).  Which has been the most common form of government in the past and the present.  Socialism needs to control the means of production and limiting wealth is how you do that.  The Constitution broke the mold.  It limits the power of government.

 

New and game changing technology that I can tell you for a fact is going to be a reality in the next 2-3 decades, barring a nuclear war or other huge disruptive unpredictable event,

Oh good, we still have some time.  That’s still a generation away.  You make it sound like it’s here now.  But even when a new technology is introduced, it could take generations to become more than a fad if it takes off at all.  And then who will control it?

 

will enable a drastic and complete shift in society that will render the traditional idea's of capitalism and socialism as we understand them today relics of the past. 

Not so drastic.  As I mentioned earlier, socialism has been the way of the world from the beginning and capitalism has been the antithesis or the new technology of it realized in the form of the Constitution.  Society may completely change in accouterment, but it stays the same in substance.  That is the genius of the Constitution.  It is an observation of human nature, not human technology.

 

The fundamantal social idea of what it means to work and provide for oneself and family is going to drastically change, the fundamental idea of what it means to be a productive member of society is going to change.

We can go back to the Stone Age where we were known as hunter-gathers.  That hasn’t changed today and it won’t change in the future.  We still exert work hunting for prey but today, what we gather is wealth for sustenance.  When a boy went out alone to kill a lion and safely return, the men would perform a ceremony to mark the boy’s entrance into manhood by piercing the septum or even his manhood to mark him as a member of the tribe.  Today we do something very similar where the child gets their driver’s license and they may still get their tongue pierced (not too many do the apadravya thing).  But a driver’s license isn’t quite the same as killing the lion and never will.  No matter how far we remove ourselves from those earlier times, we’ll have that connection to the modern primitive, with the need to tattoo and pierce ourselves, etc.  Sounds pretty barbaric for such an advanced people?  But it fulfills a basic need that will never get programmed out no matter how advanced the technology becomes.  In fact, the more advanced the technology, the more mainstream the body modification.  “The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play”.

 

These are huge unprecidented societal changes that are going to be violently opposed by the righteous ignorants. We all must make a conscious choice to not be ignorant, and to make an effort to see what is coming and how it will change things, and not focus solely on what changes in regulation and laws will mean for the current technological space we are in now. We must make an effort to understand how technology is going to enable things that previously were impossible acihevements, and this is not limited to things like enabling humans to land on the moon, it is on the cusp of enabling new social systems and solving many of the problems with bureacracy. Private industry is leading the charge, but this is only the beginning. This is at the stage the internet was at in the mid 1980's, IoT and automation is going to change literally everything, we are seeing the MS DOS version of it now, just wait and see what is coming. It is going to be unbelievable to watch and for me, help make it happen.

The credit card has been considered to be the Mark of the Devil and that movies from The Exorcist to Ghostbusters would corrupt and possess our children.  This is righteous ignorance.  But what you are espousing is better Socialism through technology.  Socialism is itself righteous ignorance.  Socialism is a dinosaur.  Technology is a tool for Mankind to use, it is not something to replace one’s self-reliance or reprogram human nature.  It is not Social Engineering.  All you are stating is the age old question of slavery or freedom.  And without wisdom, we are endanger of enslaving ourselves to the latest technology.  A free people accepts the changes in technology with little fanfare.  No need to invoke magical incantations that the coming technology is some great gift of the gods.  It is just a tool and Human nature will continue on as usual.

[RavenHawk]

On 4/1/2017 at 9:19 PM, Einsteinium said:

I have only ever claimed that Trump is a terrible president who is leading this nation into a dark future,

We’re in a dark place from eight years of the last President.  Trump is leading us into the light, “The Undiscovered Country”.  So of course it is scary.  I don’t know what we will find when we get there and it really doesn’t matter because it will be a far far better place than we have been.  It’s up to the people and Trump's leadership can inspire us.  We just need to shake off the Dark Energy we have wallowed in for too long.  You may think this crazy but I was with Martin Luther on that mountain top.  He was holding my hand and we weren’t alone.  There were millions of others there too.  I was only 8 but that vision has never left me and now I sense it now as clear as ever.  Something great is on the verge of happening and it scares the **** out of me.

 

I have never seriously said that that Trump was an illegimate president, just that he is utterly incopmentent,

He is simply not a politician but he is learning fast.  He is completely competent.

 

incapable of performing the duties,

You don’t become the master of such an empire if you can’t perform your duties.  He brings the same dedication to the office of President.

 

and clueless as to how the average person is affected by the policies he is proposing.

I would say that millions would disagree.  He made the connection with the people and the people can see that it is honest and true.  They see his good character.  They understand that he may not fulfill every promise, but even if he accomplishes but a fraction, that for once in their lifetime, they will know that they are no longer the Forgotten Man.  And the Progs cannot compete with that.  And it drives them crazy because their platform has been to manipulate them for their vote and then turn around and forget them.

[Yamato]

His support has been falling since he's been in office.  It isn't the Progs or the Hillary voters when it's the "Strongly Approve" numbers that are tanking.   How many millions disagree with Einsteinium doesn't provide much support for your opinion Ravenhawk when it's less millions than other Presidents, who were also quite bad btw.    But for the record, you just admitted we're an empire and that Trump is the master of it.   Is that what Obama was?   Wow.

[Paranormal Panther]

23 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

 Oh i dont deny the history or the double standard. There is a reason its been known as the "ClintonNewsNetwork" afterall. 

I just dont think its a story , at all, until there is a connection made to the leaks. 

It is a story. They unmasked the names of Americans at her request. She later lied about this when she appeared on a news show. It also shows a pattern when you look at what Farkas did and said.

[Farmer77]

6 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

.  He made the connection with the people and the people can see that it is honest and true.  They see his good character.  They understand that he may not fulfill every promise, but even if he accomplishes but a fraction, that for once in their lifetime, they will know that they are no longer the Forgotten Man.  And the Progs cannot compete with that.  And it drives them crazy because their platform has been to manipulate them for their vote and then turn around and forget them.

 

Yep clearly hes a man of extraordinarily good character   

The Friendship Between Trump And A Billionaire Pedophile That Nobody Wants To Talk About  

Report: Trump Gave Birthday Toast To Russian 'Friend' With Alleged Mob Ties

Yes, Donald Trump has been linked to the mob 

The Many Times Donald Trump Has Lied About His Mob Connections 

 The Trump University probe that won't go away     

Just when you thought it was over: It seems like only a few days ago that a judge in California finalized the $25 million settlement in the Trump University case -- and that's because it was! But that wasn't the last you'll hear of President Donald Trump's fleecing of rubes seminars on real estate, because there's still the matter of the alleged hush money dumped into Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi's political committee. The $25,000 payment from the Donald J. Trump Foundation to Bondi's campaign, which came about the same time as her office was considering whether to investigate dear old Trump U., is the subject of a complaint to be taken up by the Florida Commission on Ethics on April 21

 

[+DieChecker]

On 4/3/2017 at 11:00 AM, RavenHawk said:

Nothing will work for long (except for taking the fight to the enemy).  We’ve gotten stuck worried about screening passengers.  I’m surprised that attacks aren’t happening in airport security where there can be hundreds standing around.  Bringing down jets is now passé.  Run a bomb through the detector to create more shrapnel (or gas).  Muslim radicals *ARE* getting around security by driving vehicles into crowds.  What will the next incarnation bring?  We need to start changing our thinking on how we defend ourselves and a Hijrah ban is one way.  Scrutinizing the Muslim community more tightly.  As Muhammad used the Torah (by several accounts) to punish the Banu Qurayza, the Muslim should be placed under dhimmitude in order to protect those willing.

I do agree we're "doing stuff", just so the politicians can say they are "doing stuff." We're really not that much safer, unless the terrorists are idiots with a 1st grade education. Are we going to stop renting cars to Muslims? I wonder what head Democrats would say right now about keeping the US safer?

Quote

Guns are acquired when the person is not a danger.  Background checks don’t do a thing for events that might happen in the future.  Instead of background checks, everyone should go through gun safety courses in elementary or jr school.  Teaching respect for weapons early on may carry into adulthood.  Guns will always be available and if you are intent at killing someone, a background check isn’t going to stop it.  And we’re seeing that a vehicle or knife work just as well.

I do agree that criminals will always find weapons. My bro-in-law sold guns are Sportsman's Warehouse here in Oregon, and he did get several people who came back as a Fail on the background check. Many were illegals, some felons, and some had other issues, if I remember right. So, background checks do weed out some who shouldn't have guns.

Indeed, a car seems to be the very best weapon for terrorists so far.

[+DieChecker]

On 4/3/2017 at 0:46 PM, Yamato said:

Can you show me this obligation?   There is no such obligation under law.  

I agree with Yamato here. Going to war against an enemy should be punishment, not a change to industrialize that nation, and improve their infrastructure. I feel that instead of full scale land war, we should do random cruise missile attacks on the national leadership of nations we're at war with. Wide scale bombing probably makes more enemies then pin-point targeting, and post-war reconstruction hasn't made us any real friends since WW2.

[+DieChecker]

On 4/3/2017 at 5:30 AM, Einsteinium said:

As opposed to what? The world was a freaking mess before globalism and will continue to be a mess after globalism. Maybe you will be worse off because of it, maybe Muhammed living in Australia will be better off because of it.

Either way the world is going to keep sucking for the majority of people. Should we focus on raising the bottom level up, raising the top level up even higher, or raising everyone up as much a possible?

You fools, you silly fools, the last time isolationist stances were normalized we had a great depression and two world wars. Globalization at least keeps us all economically tied together, lowering the risk of a major hot war that could go nuclear at this point in history.

 

You damn fools.

You seem to be making a case that it doesn't matter. If that's the case why not go with what we're already doing, and know how to do it?

Isloationist = WW2 and Great Depression??

That's correlation, not causation. Germany caused WW2, and it wasn't in any way isolationist. Great Depression was caused by bank failure, a major drought and stock market crash, none of which has anything to do with being isolationist.

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

On 4/3/2017 at 10:32 AM, Merc14 said:

Now we have evidence that Susan Rice was requesting the unmasking of names related to the Trump transition team, something she denied knowing anything about a month ago.  https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/top-obama-adviser-sought-names-of-trump-associates-in-intel

White House lawyers last month learned that the former national security adviser Susan Rice requested the identities of U.S. persons in raw intelligence reports on dozens of occasions that connect to the Donald Trump transition and campaign, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

The pattern of Rice's requests was discovered in a National Security Council review of the government's policy on "unmasking" the identities of individuals in the U.S. who are not targets of electronic eavesdropping, but whose communications are collected incidentally. Normally those names are redacted from summaries of monitored conversations and appear in reports as something like "U.S. Person One."

----------

Rice herself has not spoken directly on the issue of unmasking. Last month when she was asked on the "PBS NewsHour" about reports that Trump transition officials, including Trump himself, were swept up in incidental intelligence collection, Rice said: "I know nothing about this," adding, "I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that account today."

--------------

Rice's requests to unmask the names of Trump transition officials does not vindicate Trump's own tweets from March 4 in which he accused Obama of illegally tapping Trump Tower. There remains no evidence to support that claim. 

But Rice's multiple requests to learn the identities of Trump officials discussed in intelligence reports during the transition period does highlight a longstanding concern for civil liberties advocates about U.S. surveillance programs. The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything. This suggests Rice's unmasking requests were likely within the law.

 I listened to several reports on Rice, and I agree she was totally within her rights to request who those people were, in those various instances. The problem comes when those "unmasked" names got spread around and included in intelligence reports. That is not supposed to happen, especially if they are all linked, and working for your political opposition, that stinks worse then any skunk, and looks like using Federal resources for political favors. It is my opinion, that even if Rice can't be directly linked to any leaks, if she can be linked to documents that passed on those unmasked names, then she should be punished.

 

[+DieChecker]

On 4/3/2017 at 4:19 PM, Paranormal Panther said:

I would concede your point were it not for the fact that the Democratic propaganda news outlets have a very long record of double standards and hypocrisy. I know that they would scream the story from the rooftops if the political parties were reversed. Just look at their coverage of the Obama administration. Just look at their reporting on the Hillary Wikileaks. Fox News covers and reports the events that are ignored by the Democratic propaganda news outlets. That's one reason that their ratings are so high. People realize that the mainstream news can't be trusted. Fox News also criticizes the conservative side during their hard news programs, but they indeed lean to the right.

Shouldn't all the Executive Orders that Trump then signed, be headlined as.... Trump Does His Job!!! 

The Lefty excuse makers keep cracking me up.

[Farmer77]

8 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Shouldn't all the Executive Orders that Trump then signed, be headlined as.... Trump Does His Job!!! 

 

Nahh that headline should be "Trump does his job poorly , again"  

[Merc14]

4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

 I listened to several reports on Rice, and I agree she was totally within her rights to request who those people were, in those various instances. The problem comes when those "unmasked" names got spread around and included in intelligence reports. That is not supposed to happen, especially if they are all linked, and working for your political opposition, that stinks worse then any skunk, and looks like using Federal resources for political favors. It is my opinion, that even if Rice can't be directly linked to any leaks, if she can be linked to documents that passed on those unmasked names, then she should be punished.

 

Why? If you read the transcripts and there is no crime being committed then why in the hell unmask the names of people in a campaign for the presidency?  If there was a crime being committed then it is most definitely NOT the NSA's job, or Susan Rice's, to pursue it, that is the job of the FBI.  Obviously she didn't call the FBI or did she?

She has lied before to push Obama's career when she went on the Sunday morning shows and told us all that Benghazi was about a video, that Al Qaeda was gone just like her boss Obama was claiming as his one foreign policy success in his campaign for reelection.  

So we have a proven liar doing something she should not have been doing and we are supposed to buy her story?

[Lilly]

10 hours ago, Merc14 said:

 

So we have a proven liar doing something she should not have been doing and we are supposed to buy her story?

Well, I don't believe this woman one iota. Frankly, at this point I'd suggest Ms Rice lawyer up...I think she stands to be in some really hot water fairly soon.

Oh, and just a general observation here. Trump may not have be classically "wiretapped" but it sure as hell seems he was being spied on.