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Lilly

Trump Tower Wiretapped?

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Merc14
23 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I hadn't seen that document and did not know they had tied the RIS to wikileaks and Podesta's email so thanks !!  :tu: That said, why tie trump and his campaign, which aren't mentioned in the document, to the Russians?  Also, the attacks started in 2015 and the "political party" email was first hacked in that year and then again in the spring of 2016, but both events were before Trump was the nominee so why is his campaign suspected of being involved at all?   Also, does anyone seriously think Podesta's email changed the outcome of the election?   Maybe some democrats stayed home but how many republicans did the same because Trump?   I think one has to seriously strain credulity to blame Hillary's loss on the Russians.  

Edited by Merc14
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BlackBearWolf
8 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

I hadn't seen that document and did not know they had tied the RIS to wikileaks and Podesta's email so thanks !!  :tu: That said, why tie trump and his campaign, which aren't mentioned in the document, to the Russians?  Also, the attacks started in 2015 and the "political party" email was first hacked in that year and then again in the spring of 2016, but both events were before Trump was the nominee so why is his campaign suspected of being involved at all?   Also, does anyone seriously think Podesta's email changed the outcome of the election?   Maybe some democrats stayed home but how many republicans did the same because Trump?   I think one has to seriously strain credulity to blame Hillary's loss on the Russians.  

I havent seen anyone on this thread claim that "because of the russians Trump won" nobody claims they "hacked voting machines". The arguement could be made that Putin wanted Trump to win, but the Podesta email leak was very moot in my opinion nothing very salacious. Our media was going after Trump in a much more aggressive manner and had bigger dirt on him and he still won.

The meat of the story is.

What were the conversations between Trump campaign and Russian ambassador about (considering multiple people have resigned, recused, and possibly lied about these meetings)and who ordered the wiretapping and why?

Edited by BlackBearWolf

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Lilly said:

The witch said both this and what I quoted (check it out). She was pretty sure of herself to have said it twice. I'm pretty sure as well.

I remember the quote from Ray Bradbury's novel, Something Wicked This Way Comes, I read as a teenager. I was just echoing the sentiment. Other than the lines we quoted, I know more Hamlet than Macbeth.

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Hammerclaw
18 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

I havent seen anyone on this thread claim that "because of the russians Trump won" nobody claims they "hacked voting machines". The arguement could be made that Putin wanted Trump to win, but the Podesta email leak was very moot in my opinion nothing very salacious. Our media was going after Trump in a much more aggressive manner and had bigger dirt on him and he still won.

The meat of the story is.

What were the conversations between Trump campaign and Russian ambassador about (considering multiple people have resigned, recused, and possibly lied about these meetings)and who ordered the wiretapping and why?

What we have in the offing are two fishing expeditions based on unsubstantiated allegations. Crimes have been postulated or inferred and both parties want investigations to either substantiate or debunk them. Both parties are jealously guarding their own particular house of cards, built, perhaps, more on a foundation of wishful thinking than reality.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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and then

Meanwhile, the MSM are in utter confusion over what to do.  They claim multiple investigations against team Trump have been underway since at least the summer, yet they now have DNI Clapper and James Comey at FBI saying nobody's being wiretapped!  The press, especially the NYT, look like idiots.  I suspect that the tone of this witch hunt is about to calm down considerably as they realize how foolish they appear, and they think about where this all could ultimately lead, since Trump isn't quaking in fear and confusion.  They just can't understand why a Republican doesn't wet his pants and run simpering from the room when they make their pronouncements.  That's what ALWAYS happens, right?  Ooops....

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Claire.
5 hours ago, Lilly said:

Evidence that President Obama's Justice Department considered significant (but we have yet to see ). Also, the first investigation found nothing tying the Trump campaign to Russian operatives/hackers. Keep in mind, telling a joke during a political campaign (about how Russia might be able to find some missing emails) really can't be considered as being evidence.

Also, keep in mind that if Trump's campaign had inappropriate contact with Russians then he will likely be impeached and we'll get Pence. If Pence was 'in on it' then we'll get Paul Ryan. The Republicans will still be the party in charge.

Here are 5 Ways Congress is investigating Russia-Trump Ties. The FBI, as I mentioned, has three separate investigations of its own.

You're correct in stating that some of the investigations started during Obama's time in office, but some have been expanded to include more recent developments, and others were started after Trump took office. As for seeing any of the evidence in advance, that's not likely and understandably so,

And stop with the 'we'll get Pence' talk, you're scaring me! :lol:

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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, Claire. said:

Here are 5 Ways Congress is investigating Russia-Trump Ties. The FBI, as I mentioned, has three separate investigations of its own.

You're correct in stating that some of the investigations started during Obama's time in office, but some have been expanded to include more recent developments, and others were started after Trump took office. As for seeing any of the evidence in advance, that's not likely and understandably so,

And stop with the 'we'll get Pence' talk, you're scaring me! :lol:

Oh, don't be so pensive.;)

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Liquid Gardens
23 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

I hadn't seen that document and did not know they had tied the RIS to wikileaks and Podesta's email so thanks !!  :tu: That said, why tie trump and his campaign, which aren't mentioned in the document, to the Russians?  Also, the attacks started in 2015 and the "political party" email was first hacked in that year and then again in the spring of 2016, but both events were before Trump was the nominee so why is his campaign suspected of being involved at all?   Also, does anyone seriously think Podesta's email changed the outcome of the election?   Maybe some democrats stayed home but how many republicans did the same because Trump?   I think one has to seriously strain credulity to blame Hillary's loss on the Russians.  

To be honest I was actually kinda surprised to find something that 'official'; I had mainly heard more vague things in news reports along the lines of, 'the intelligence community has linked election hacking to Russia'.  I think Trump is tied in because of things he said during the campaign encouraging the Russians to hack and the people in 'his circle' who did have contact with Russians despite claiming there were none.  My stomach for politics is limited so I don't know for sure, butI haven't seen anything in those actual contacts that doesn't look innocuous yet, and I can buy to an extent that someone like Sessions for example was answering a different question than he was technically actually asked.  But I think Trump and these relevant Repubs are as responsible for the suspicion and the need to at least investigate it as any hype whipped up by the left.

I certainly don't blame the Russians for Hillary's loss, but you add together their one-sided email reveals and things like Comey's ill-timed statements and it seems reasonable to think they had some impact, admittedly of unknown magnitude.  It was such a bizarre election though that I hope never gets repeated in any form that it's tough to pin the results on any one thing.  IMO I think that Hillary essentially lost the election when she made the 'deplorables' comment; she didn't do a good job of appealing to people who ended up voting for Trump nor really understanding them, nor even comprehending what the accurate state of the overall campaign was at that point.

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RavenHawk
26 minutes ago, BlackBearWolf said:

I think based on Trumps associations bussiness and cabinet, plus his on air adoration of Putin it is obviously clear Putin sees a more workable partner in Trump. Im not saying this is a bad thing. I would hope that all the major players in the world get along. Especially if the mutual goal is to destroy Islamic extremists.

Exactly, but those that hate Trump tried to turn that into some kind of collusion, especially those that want to go to war with Russia.  What would they have colluded about anyway that they couldn’t do now?  It would be so anti-Globalist if Putin and Trump could work together.  Trump is only sending a signal of the possibility.  That is his job.

 

The leaks are illegal but you are jumping to conclusions in placing blame on leaks to Obama. Lets not accuse without evidence as a new rule of thumb for this administration and all future.. that would be wise

The leaks of Hilary and the DNC were done by multiple players.  Noone will really ever know the full extent.  But to tap US communications and then leak them to MSM contacts can only be done by one entity.  Ok, so I can see maybe Trump Towers being tapped by someone else, but Flynn was probably in his office in Trump Towers when he was tapped.  The tapping is confirmed by the Washington Post.  You are talking about the White House being vulnerable.  If that is the case, why reveal your presence by leaking meaningless phone calls that is designed only to throw mud at the President?  The finger only points to the top.   This is Spock’s Hammer Corollary.

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Hammerclaw

Wiretapping is an archaic term for surreptitious electronic surveillance. Since most phone and text messaging is done wirelessly, it's a relatively effortless task for intelligence agencies and leaves no telltale clues. No one had to sneak into the basement of Trump Towers and clip something to the wires.  

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RavenHawk
13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Wiretapping is an archaic term for surreptitious electronic surveillance. Since most phone and text messaging is done wirelessly, it's a relatively effortless task for intelligence agencies and leaves no telltale clues. No one had to sneak into the basement of Trump Towers and clip something to the wires.  

That’s true to a degree.  You can pick up any number of random communications at any time.  You can see this by opening Wi-Fi Connections on your cell phone and start walking.  Each step brings different connections within range.  But to isolate a target, you need somebody in range that can actively monitor the device or catch it at a relay station with a sniffer.

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aztek
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

. No one had to sneak into the basement of Trump Towers and clip something to the wires.  

it depends, for copper landline, they would have to. it is analog signal, not just basement, but pretty much anywhere between a phone and a switch board

for pbx\voice over ip phones they would not need to.

Edited by aztek

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Lilly
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

I remember the quote from Ray Bradbury's novel, Something Wicked This Way Comes, I read as a teenager. I was just echoing the sentiment. Other than the lines we quoted, I know more Hamlet than Macbeth.

I'm sort of OCD when it comes to Shakespeare. Our quotes were from Macbeth,  the scene where the 3 weird sisters (aka, witches) make their prophecy.

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Hammerclaw
17 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I'm sort of OCD when it comes to Shakespeare. Our quotes were from Macbeth,  the scene where the 3 weird sisters (aka, witches) make their prophecy.

That's some of the other I remember of Macbeth, the double, double toil and trouble part and that Akira Kurosawa did a Samurai movie based on Macbeth. Hamlet, on the other hand, I can quote whole passages of.  

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Hammerclaw
9 hours ago, Claire. said:

Actually, there is indeed evidence beyond the usual crap, at least enough to merit not one investigation, but several.

Then by all means, Claire share that evidence with us. Remember, real evidence has to be factual and not require a leap of faith.

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thedutchiedutch
17 hours ago, and then said:

Trump called for a Congressional investigation of the wiretapping so we'll get to the bottom of it all, eventually.  What p***es off those on the Left, is that now they are being shown what it's like to be accused of something without hard proof.  And as you say, they are" making a hopeless case out of thin air and when you are making a hopeless case out of thin air you are full of crap in my opinion". ;) 

Trump is full of crap. Remember he accused Obama of not being born in the United States and thus did not legitimately hold the office of president ?
An accusation he did not withdraw until 2016. He was full of crap then and he is full of crap now :P

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RavenHawk
8 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Trump is full of crap. Remember he accused Obama of not being born in the United States and thus did not legitimately hold the office of president ?
An accusation he did not withdraw until 2016. He was full of crap then and he is full of crap now :P

To be honest, that question has not been adequately answered.  We just accept it.  There is one way and only one way to do it and it hasn’t been done.  But the thing is, is that the point is moot.  It doesn’t matter if Obama is legitimate or not, he has already damaged this nation perhaps beyond repair.

Edited by RavenHawk
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thedutchiedutch
11 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

To be honest, that question has not been adequately answered.  We just accept it.  There is one way and only one way to do it and it hasn’t been done.  But the thing is, is that the point is moot.  It doesn’t matter if Obama is legitimate or not, he has already damaged this nation perhaps beyond repair.

He released a copy of his birth certificate did he not ? Or are you one of those that believe his birth certificate is a forgery ?
 

 

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RavenHawk
1 minute ago, thedutchiedutch said:

He released a copy of his birth certificate did he not ? Or are you one of those that believe his birth certificate is a forgery ?
 

 

Which one?  He never did prove that either were not forgeries.  He also never released his college records.  But I suppose that you would still insist that Trump release his tax records?

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thedutchiedutch

Which one ? What do you mean with that ? And I don't think the burden is on Obama to prove his birth certificate is not a fraud. 
Maybe this article will help you to put the birth certificate claim to bed http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/birthcertificate.asp

And about Trumps tax returns ? Well didn't he not promise to release his tax returns after the audit ? Well ? Again another example that he is full of crap because he is not going to release his tax returns according to his counselor.

 

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Paranormal Panther
22 hours ago, F3SS said:

Jesus man I'll tell you I don't know where my mind is some days. Too many places I guess. Holy crap lol. Yes I am the Father of Twins! Good grief :hmm:

Don't worry about it. I don't know where *my* mind is some *years*.

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Hammerclaw

Sometimes I don't know what century mine is. A love for historical novels and science fiction can make it very confusing, sometimes.

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Paranormal Panther
8 hours ago, Lilly said:

Ya know, I have this feeling as well. I don't know if it will be about Russia or illegal surveillance but something is certainly brewing.

"I can tell that something wicked is coming by the tingling in my thumbs. Doors, open up for whoever is knocking!" ~Macbeth~

I had the same feeling on the day before the Snowden revelations were released. They likely will pale in comparison to what's coming next.

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Paranormal Panther
50 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sometimes I don't know what century mine is. A love for historical novels and science fiction can make it very confusing, sometimes.

In your case, it's a good thing. That's the difference. ;)

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Paranormal Panther
6 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

That is perhaps very close but you seemed shocked or disappointed that using common sense brought you to this conclusion??  I don’t think Putin really cares who POTUS is.  Their hacking was intel gathering for later on, not to influence the election.  If it was to influence the election, it wasn’t to help Trump as it was that I think Putin couldn’t stand Hilary (that’s why he can’t be all that bad :lol: ).  And I believe that the evidence exists that other players were involved in the hacking and these are the sources for the Podesta email leaks, etc.  But the thing remains that these leaks of Trump are still a felony and it was Obama’s Administration that was involved.

 

It's not impossible for American spies to frame Russian operatives for hacking. We might hear more about that as more information is released from Vault 7. It may or may not be pertinent or relevant to Obama and Trump, but it's a possibility. My guess is that the Russians were much less involved with the Trump campaign than we were with the Netanyahu campaign.

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