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Lilly

Trump Tower Wiretapped?

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Clarakore
29 minutes ago, Claire. said:

He had been running his campaign out of Trump Tower, and once public financing was available, he raised the rent the campaign paid.

Is this even legal? Did some of those funds received in rent go back into the campaign? 

Why not gives his own campaign free rent if he owns the building? Seems like a siphoning scheme like this should be investigated. Hopefully his head rolls soon.

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Clarakore
Quote

“The other side of the story ― just be quiet for a second ― if the former president of the United States was able to obtain a warrant lawfully to monitor Trump’s campaign for violating a law, that would be the biggest scandal since Watergate,” he said.

Graham made clear that the latter form of wiretapping would be aimed at investigating “Trump campaign activity with foreign governments.”

“So it’s my job as a United States senator to get to the bottom of this. I promise you I will,” he concluded, drawing applause.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lindsey-graham-donald-trump-wiretapping_us_58bb304be4b05cf0f40104e9?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004

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Captain Risky
1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

...on the surface. I'm reserving judgement on this one for a few reasons.

First, he posted about this on social media several times, meaning he really wants to draw attention to it.
Second, being a man who's hobby is suing people for defamation, he's no stranger to the judicial system - he knows full well there is going to be a demand for evidence. This isn't his first rodeo, it's ours watching a President this unconventional.
Third, I believe he's playing the media against themselves, again. His second hobby is managing a high-profile in the media spotlight.

We saw him play this game throughout the election. He would say something silly and not only would the media be foaming at the mouth to cover it, they would ignore the other candidates almost entirely thus covering a substantial amount of Trump's campaign and it didn't cost him a dime.

Remember what he said about Sweden the other week? The media once again stepped right in to the trap, proudly announcing that "nothing was happening" in Sweden. This also prompted the general public to search Sweden like crazy, discovering for themselves the migrant crisis while simultaneously dropping MSM credibility down another notch.

I have a feeling this is just another media trap to get reporters, journalists and lawyers to start digging while Trump waits for the opportune time to drop the wire-tapping evidence he's been holding on to.

 

Trump has done a few surprisingly crafty things since taking office, besides the above. I think the real Trump has been hiding in plain sight behind spray tan and poofy hair.

Well, as mush as i would like to give Trump the benefit of the doubt, i just can't cause any efforts to ascertain an illegal wire tap would require a reputable investigation instructed by an executive order. Has Trump issued such? Has the FBI done an investigation or maybe the C.I.A or NSA? Who exactly has come to this conclusion that Trump tower and Trump were bugged... Trump might very well be no stranger to defamation and law suits but his big dollars don't intimidate Obama or the democrat's cause they're not making any clams. Trump is making an accusation without submitting any proof. That's the way i read it. 

Bolded Red:  My understanding is that it was Sweden that asked for clarification from the Trump administration before the MSM.

Bolded Green: The only trap is the one that Trump sprung on himself. It can't be a trap if Trump mentioned wiretapping first. In fact, Trump shouldn't be playing with the media at all. He has his minions and cabinet members to that. His job is to get on with governing America and not trying to get even with his predecessors.  

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Captain Risky
1 hour ago, Avatar Samantha Ai said:

Is this even legal? Did some of those funds received in rent go back into the campaign? 

Why not gives his own campaign free rent if he owns the building? Seems like a siphoning scheme like this should be investigated. Hopefully his head rolls soon.

On general principle alone it should be investigated but Trump did fund alot of his campaign so i can't see any significant advantage in it for Trump to spend millions possible hundreds of millions to just make a few extra bob on floor space rental. 

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Captain Risky
1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, it does sound dire and we have never been so divided.  This is what 8 years of Obama has done to us and the Progs will keep things cloudy.  The Progs will skew the truth.  Facts won’t matter to them.  All that is left is blind politics and the Republic is near its end.

 

Speaking of facts, who exactly ordered the investigation into the Trump wiretap allegations and who performed the investigation... was it the FBI, C.I.A or possibly the NSA?

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and then
1 hour ago, Paranormal Panther said:

That *is* dire! Pass the cyanide.

Cyanide?  Hell no!  Ruck up and load the magazines.  It may be a lot of things for them but it DAMNED sure won't be easy or free.  The funny thing about using LAW to crucify someone is that if you are destroying it in the process it doesn't shield YOU anymore either. The YOU is rhetorical BTW.  And when the law doesn't matter, it becomes survival of the fittest again.  From what I've seen of this ilk, if they can't depend on the military or law enforcement to do their fighting for them, they get very quiet.  I think that by that time, it won't help them much.

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Captain Risky
2 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

That sounds very dire. We're divided right now, but, like ZZ and others say, we need to approach all things with a clear head that's not clouded by what we hope and pray is true. The country should demand that *all* facts be shown. Concentrate on truth, not blind politics.

Your expectations on a good presidency must be low when the only advise you can dispense is to concentrate on the truth with a clear head and not be clouded by high expectations. 

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AnchorSteam

This may not be a juicy as you all are used to, but I prefer something sensible over the tabloid stuff. It is 20 minutes or so.

 

 

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Paranormal Panther
2 hours ago, and then said:

An embedded shadow government and a media completely in the tank for the Left.  A large number of so-called conservatives that want no part of helping Trump.  Trump's every utterance will be savaged from multiple angles and the noise will grow.  If it succeeds, the America we've known is over.  It will just be a matter of time before the Progs go for broke and THEN the blood will begin to flow.  The fools that are cheering this on seem to think it's a game.  When it crushes their lives and homes and families it will be a just providence.

And Then, I hope that it doesn't come to that. You *might* be wrong about flowing blood. You're certainly right on the government and the media. It's best to not think about the waste wrought by the horrid partisanship. They put genuine opportunities, for improving citizens' lives, in the incinerator. Gossip and innuendo rule their hearts and minds. Let the infrastructure crumble, let the inner cities rot, let intelligence agents go rogue, and let innovation be ignored. The whole thing is a bitter disappointment.

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Paranormal Panther
2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Your expectations on a good presidency must be low when the only advise you can dispense is to concentrate on the truth with a clear head and not be clouded by high expectations. 

You added those last seven words. I never said them.

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Captain Risky
14 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

You added those last seven words. I never said them.

...you meant them. Anyway it wasn't supposed to be a direct quote anyway.  

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Paranormal Panther
Just now, Captain Risky said:

...you meant them. Anyway it wasn't supposed to be a direct quote anyway.  

I didn't, Miss Cleo. I'll give him a chance like I gave chances to his predecessors.

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Captain Risky
32 minutes ago, Paranormal Panther said:

Explain it. What is the right reaction to his, as of yet, unverified claim? We can't convict or exonerate someone based on a tweet. What are people not getting?

True enough. Trump makes an explosive tweet, throws around unverified allegations and the rest, including the democrat's, MSM and the public should just accept it as the new normal. Its good to be the president!

Edited by Captain Risky
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Setton
17 hours ago, and then said:

The Democrats have no voice in the current congress yet they seem to be running the town and the agenda.  They appear to be controlling the government through bureaucrat proxies.  

That makes them smart.

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Farmer77
8 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

...Look Trump's presidential win is testimony to the endearing democratic structures of your great nation BUT Trump is not presidential. Its got nothing to do with him running on a republican ticket. There have been many democratic presidents that were also not suited for the role of president. Thinking of Carter. Trump's a great businessman with plenty of great idea's and his finger on the pulse of the American people but a statesman and far sighted leader? Don't think so.  

It kills me that during the election they wore the fact that trump isnt presidential as a badge of honor, now that he's actually ya know, president they cant accept that one simple fact and scream about partisanship when it's pointed out. 

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ellapenella
1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

It kills me that during the election they wore the fact that trump isnt presidential as a badge of honor, now that he's actually ya know, president they cant accept that one simple fact and scream about partisanship when it's pointed out. 

Obama & Hillary & the dems accused our  President Trump for having Russian ties even after  Obama was told by NSA that Trump was clean that he had no ties with Russia  yet Obama kept listening in on the Trump family .  America was not permitted to vet Obama know nothing not anything about him  and now he does this to America & thinking  Americans wouldn't find out? 

 

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Farmer77
Just now, Ellapennella said:

Obama & Hillary & the dems accused our  President Trump for having Russian ties even after  Obama was told by NSA that Trump was clean that he had no ties with Russia  yet Obama kept listening in on the Trump family .  America was not permitted to vet Obama know nothing not anything about him  and now he does this to America & thinking  Americans wouldn't find out? 

 

Settle down , take a deep breath - hold it, now exhale.....

“While the order would have been requested by some part of the executive branch, Obama can’t order anything. Nor can Trump,” says former NSA lawyer April Doss, who stresses that her comments are based only on public information. “The order has to come from the court, and the court operates independently.”

We've seen evidence of the court operating independently in the case of Trumpleskilson's immigrant ban. 

FISA court judges serve seven-year appointments, so the court’s composition doesn’t ebb and flow with the political tides. What’s more, specific laws adopted in the wake of Watergate prevent the very activity Trump accuses Obama of.

“You can’t tap the phones of a political candidate for political purposes,” says Doss.

What you could tap them for? Acting as a foreign power, or as an agent of a foreign power. In other words, spying against US interests with both knowledge and intent.

Ruh-Ro Scooby ! 

If federal authorities did have cause to listen in on Trump Tower, though, and they provided enough evidence for a FISA court to approve the snooping, Obama is not the one who ought to worry.

 

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Lilly

As it's already been pointed out, a President doesn't order a wiretap, but that doesn't mean a cabinet official couldn't order it and the President would most certainly know all about it. Also, it appears that obtaining one of these FISA orders doesn't require a ton of evidence, just something that doesn't seem 'quite right'. And, as much as we'd like to think that all judges are totally objective and not influenced by politics this is simply not so.

As for who's in hot water here, that depends on what the actual evidence shows. If team Trump was not involved with the Russians to pull off anything questionable and it can be demonstrated that team Obama (on Clinton's behalf) was actually more interested in political spying (a la Watergate) then Obama needs to worry. If team Trump was in cahoots with the Russians to mess with the election and team Obama actually does have evidence of this then team Trump needs to worry. However, (and this is a big however) if team Obama has this strong irrefutable evidence and has had it since before the election it makes no sense that they wouldn't have dropped this bomb before the election took place. Also, if they obtained this evidence after the election why are they still dilly dallying now? I mean, why keep playing around, just bring out the evidence and nail Trump before he can even begin to govern.

Personally, I don't think team Obama has any strong evidence. As for the wiretapping, it really depends upon what was used as probable cause for getting that FISA order.

 

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Farmer77
1 minute ago, Lilly said:

Also, if they obtained this evidence after the election why are they still dilly dallying now? I mean, why keep playing around, just bring out the evidence and nail Trump before he can even begin to govern.

Personally, I don't think team Obama has any strong evidence. As for the wiretapping, it really depends upon what was used as probable cause for getting that FISA order.

When investigations are happening often time law enforcement, even though they have a strong case, will continue surveillance and investigation until they have a slam dunk case. I imagine if the wire tapping thing is true, now that it has been exposed things will accelerate. 

 

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Lilly
10 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

When investigations are happening often time law enforcement, even though they have a strong case, will continue surveillance and investigation until they have a slam dunk case. I imagine if the wire tapping thing is true, now that it has been exposed things will accelerate. 

 

Wait minute, I thought there was no actual investigation...only inquiry! LOL

Yes, I do agree that when law enforcement investigates they are building a case. But, there comes a time when if nothing definitive is found that the investigation needs to be dropped. To keep on dogging someone when nothing has come to fruition it eventually crosses over into the realm of harassment. I'm not sure what the legal criteria for this actually is though, but I'd guess that the time for 'put up or shut up' will be relatively soon.

Edited by Lilly
typo error
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Lilly

Sean Spicer finally comments: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-wiretapping-investigation-white-house-sean-spicer-a7612446.html

Quote

"As part of that practice, neither Obama nor White House official ever ordered surveillance on any US citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is false,” he said.

The statement did not address the possibility that a wiretap of the Trump campaign could have been ordered by Justice Department officials.

Under US law, a federal court would have to have found probable cause the target of the surveillance is an “agent of a foreign power” in order to approve a warrant authorising electronic surveillance."

 

Edited by Lilly
odd quote function

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Lilly

Just like I thought...this all appears to be heading toward 'put up or shut up'. I highly suspect the DOJ (under AG Lynch) ordered the wiretap and President Obama most certainly knew about it. This will all come down to what evidence they had that the Trump campaign was behaving as an "agent of a foreign power" (Russia). Basically, Trump has now forced their hand into having to show what they have for evidence.

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Lilly

Do not make this discussion personal...period.

UM Administration has already cleaned up this thread a couple of times.

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Liquid Gardens
12 hours ago, .ZZ. said:

Trump had better reveal evidence of this or he is going to be losing some folks!

After thinking about this all day I'm considering withdrawing any support I may have had.

Enough with the innuendo already!

Yes!  That was something I had thought of also and it's encouraging to see someone who is (I think) on the right state it, thanks.  It's not just that 'we should wait and see if there's any evidence of this in the FBI's investigation', which is true to an extent, it should also be just as you said, 'there better be some evidence coming out to support this'.  

A mere 3-4 months ago, there is no way we would let slide the same accusation if it was Obama stating it about George W.  One of my concerns about our Liar in Chief has been that he's going to start being graded on a curve, relative to his extreme behavior, and not by the standards of the office he holds.  Some people like to keep reminding everyone, and it's not entirely without cause, that no matter what he is our president; we should then insist that he behaves like one and hold him just as accountable as we would any president, particularly those who are not on the same end of the political spectrum as ourselves.

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