Trump Tower Wiretapped?

[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

This is how bald eagles are doing in the US....

That's good news, growing up in AK i tend to forget they ever were in any danger at all.

Of course that doesnt change the link I posted or the fact that lead is bad for animals. Again I just thought it was incredible irony, wait perhaps imagery is the better term,  that a bald eagle died of lead poisoning the same day the gov said "nahh its cool" 

[+DieChecker]

13 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

And Treason is the betrayal of one’s country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.  It’s clear that intel has been leaked and the Progs have it.  If this is real evidence against Trump then it should be presented to the public.  Hiding it is a crime.  Schumer and Waters should resign for their part in this and bring this evidence before the American people now.  Otherwise, the rule of law means nothing to them and they are actively trying to overthrow the government.  This is not the actions of the loyal opposition.  What’s more important to them?  Their careers or the future of this nation?

Wait... So stolen data must be released. But, it is Trump talking to Russians that is a crime? Where is the real Treason here? I'd point at whomever leaked the intel as the real traitor. What exactly was it that the Trump team is accused of saying to the Russians that was treasonous? Fixing the election? Is there even real evidence of that, or just accusations?

I would like to see Schumer and Waters gone though... Hummmm..... 

13 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

And again Trump himself claimed to have evidence that Obama 'tapped his wires', also claimed to have bombshell evidence that Obama was not born in America, Trump himself also claimed that Ted Cruz's dad was involved in the Kennedy assassination! Trump should be tried for treason and sedition if he is withholding information from the public that proves these claims!

I think the only thing treasonous there is about Obama not being born in America, and only because it was said about him after he was in Office. And even then, it is the kind of treason that you YOURSELF are doing right here on UM.

Have a nice day...

[+DieChecker]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

That's good news, growing up in AK i tend to forget they ever were in any danger at all.

Of course that doesnt change the link I posted or the fact that lead is bad for animals. Again I just thought it was incredible irony, wait perhaps imagery is the better term,  that a bald eagle died of lead poisoning the same day the gov said "nahh its cool" 

It certainly is ironic, and myself, I don't think a lead ban was really hurting the ammunition industry much. I didn't see a need to reverse it myself. 

What was Trump's thinking on the reversal? Simply removing Regulation?

[Farmer77]

Just now, DieChecker said:

It certainly is ironic, and myself, I don't think a lead ban was really hurting the ammunition industry much. I didn't see a need to reverse it myself. 

What was Trump's thinking on the reversal? Simply removing Regulation?

I honestly dont know. As far as I can tell it was simply to undo something Obama had done, but I do know that many hunting groups opposed the ban as well so perhaps there was some NRA type base pleasing going on as well. 

[+DieChecker]

7 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

The absurd ban and how the first one was rolled out- dude ran around calling it a muslim ban and is now shocked the courts dont believe its not a muslim ban 

Seems to me that he could call it the "Final Solution" and really, it only matters what is in the legislation, not what it is called. The fact was that for the Vast Majority of Muslims entering the US, it had zero effect on them. I do believe that the troubles that came about at airports were not due entirely to Enforcement of legislation, but due to angry people in charge of security at airports, who had a Trump grudge, going overboard in an effort to be ridiculous and cause trouble. 

I read many articles on people who were "Banned" from the US, and I believe in only a couple hundred cases were the people forced to return from where they came. I greatly suspect that more then a couple hundred Muslims came into the country.

It should be called a "NonCooperative Nation Ban". Since other Muslim nations, that share criminal databases and terrorist lists, used to vet travelers, aren't on the list. 

You'd think that what eventually Trump signed was far more palatable to the Left then what he previously said he would do. But, no... it is about the title attached to media articles, "MUSLIM BAN!", and not what the legislation actually says.

Edited April 1, 2017 by DieChecker

[+DieChecker]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

I honestly dont know. As far as I can tell it was simply to undo something Obama had done, but I do know that many hunting groups opposed the ban as well so perhaps there was some NRA type base pleasing going on as well. 

I just read a couple articles on the subject and it appears that many didn't like the law because Obama signed it into law right at the end of his time in office, and it is viewed as a ban on hunting in areas where alternate metal bullets are not widely available. I, myself, don't know how widespread alternate metal bullets are, but I do believe that the vast majority of bullets for sale today are lead in nature.

I'd support a gradual draw down of lead bullets to be replaced by other metal bullets, at a rate that wouldn't negatively affect the availability of individual's to actively purchase bullets. I think the main issue is lead shot from shotguns, used for bird hunting. It gets in the water and gets eaten by fish, which tons of other animals eat. 

[Farmer77]

8 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Seems to me that he could call it the "Final Solution" and really, it only matters what is in the legislation, not what it is called. The fact was that for the Vast Majority of Muslims entering the US, it had zero effect on them. I do believe that the troubles that came about at airports were not due entirely to Enforcement of legislation, but due to angry people going overboard in an effort to be ridiculous and cause trouble. 

I read many articles on people who were "Banned" from the US, and I believe in only a couple hundred cases were the people forced to return from where they came. I greatly suspect that more then a couple hundred Muslims came into the country.

It should be called a "NonCooperative Nation Ban". Since other Muslim nations, that share criminal databases and terrorist lists, used to vet travelers, aren't on the list. 

You'd think that what eventually Trump signed was far more palatable to the Left then what he previously said he would do. But, no... it is about the title attached to media articles, "MUSLIM BAN!", and not what the legislation actually says.

Im only parroting what i have been able to digest during  this ordeal but from what ive been able to tell there is precedent for laws being struck down because of their backstory which didnt make it into the legislation as it was written. 

For me I appreciate the fact that the courts are stopping the bans because they're a complete political stunt which, in my opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with actually keeping Americans safe and everything to do with continuing trumps campaign which thrived on divisiveness and xenophobia. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Farmer77

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I just read a couple articles on the subject and it appears that many didn't like the law because Obama signed it into law right at the end of his time in office, and it is viewed as a ban on hunting in areas where alternate metal bullets are not widely available. I, myself, don't know how widespread alternate metal bullets are, but I do believe that the vast majority of bullets for sale today are lead in nature.

I'd support a gradual draw down of lead bullets to be replaced by other metal bullets, at a rate that wouldn't negatively affect the availability of individual's to actively purchase bullets. I think the main issue is lead shot from shotguns, used for bird hunting. It gets in the water and gets eaten by fish, which tons of other animals eat. 

Balance and common sense would be wonderful things these days lol 

[+DieChecker]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

Im only parroting what i have been able to digest during  this ordeal but from what ive been able to tell there is precedent for laws being struck down because of their backstory which didnt make it into the legislation as it was written. 

For me I appreciate the fact that the courts are stopping the bans because they're a complete political stunt which, in my opinion, has absolutely nothing to do actually keeping Americans safe and everything to do with continuing trumps campaign which thrived on divisiveness and xenophobia. 

I'd agree they really aren't going to stop terrorists. Just like taking your shoes off going through airport security, no real terrorist is going to attack from that angle, and risk getting caught before boarding. Any terrorist worth a damn (not an complete idiot) will go around security, by either being a crewman, or ground crew, or being clever. Real terrorists aren't going to just fly into the US and start shooting up the airport they land in. They're going to be on a long term plan, such that even the extra background checks and 120 days isn't going to prevent them just flying in and walking out the airport doors.

Still, like with gun control, I'm all in favor of More Background checks and waiting times. If someone might be a danger, don't let them into the short line, do a full check on them. 

[Farmer77]

2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I'd agree they really aren't going to stop terrorists. Just like taking your shoes off going through airport security, no real terrorist is going to attack from that angle, and risk getting caught before boarding. Any terrorist worth a damn (not an complete idiot) will go around security, by either being a crewman, or ground crew, or being clever. Real terrorists aren't going to just fly into the US and start shooting up the airport they land in. They're going to be on a long term plan, such that even the extra background checks and 120 days isn't going to prevent them just flying in and walking out the airport doors.

Still, like with gun control, I'm all in favor of More Background checks and waiting times. If someone might be a danger, don't let them into the short line, do a full check on them. 

Agreed totally. 

[+DieChecker]

I was listening to the radio in the car and they were talking about Flynn, and if he really had anything dangerous to Trump to say. Most people are thinking NO, I am led to believe, as no one seems to be rushing to give Flynn protection. I think, like the guy on the radio, that this is simply a way for Flynn to get protection from something he did and thinks he might get caught in, which really has nothing to do with Trump, or Russia.

[bee]

Just now, RavenHawk said:

I don’t try to say I am smarter than you.  I’ll let our words show that.  What’s this crap that we are brothers?  You are not my brother.  The Progs are Globalists.  You guys don’t see the US of A as brothers united, just an apparatus to exert power for social engineering and the Global cause.  See, there’s a difference between a nation of ideas and social engineering.  That is the objective fact.  There is no moderate middle.  You are on one side or the other (another objective fact).  We’ve had a century of proof that you can’t compromise with socialism.  Socialism is a greedy algorithm, destroying all sense of independent thought and replacing it with its own matrix.  In the early days, the Federalists and anti-Federalists were the classic Conservative and Liberal.  They would argue with each other but they were united in putting the interests of this nation first.  Today, the Progs don’t do that.  At the turn of the last century, socialism crept its way into the liberal side slowly corrupting that party.  Today, it has now infected the other party.  If it was not for those last few true Conservatives, this nation would have long gone the way of Europe.  And your wealth envy is showing again.

 

.

You could say that the Globalists and those who support them with word and deed are, in fact, FAKE AMERICANS....

????

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[Farmer77]

3 minutes ago, bee said:

.

You could say that the Globalists and those who support them with word and deed are, in fact, FAKE AMERICANS....

????

.

Yikes thats dangerous and rather unamerican talk. 

[bee]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

Yikes thats dangerous and rather unamerican talk. 

.

the Globalists and those who support them ultimately want open borders and the end to countries as we now know them -

so what else could they be, logically. but fake Americans...?... 

they don't want to Make America Great Again - quite the reverse I suspect -  
at the end of the day they have no national allegiance - and if they thought a serious conflict with Russia would move
their agenda forward... that's what they would engineer - never mind how many died or had their lives ruined...

. 

[Farmer77]

6 minutes ago, bee said:

.

the Globalists and those who support them ultimately want open borders and the end to countries as we now know them -

so what else could they be, logically. but fake Americans...?... 

they don't want to Make America Great Again - quite the reverse I suspect -  
at the end of the day they have no national allegiance - and if they thought a serious conflict with Russia would move
their agenda forward... that's what they would engineer - never mind how many died or had their lives ruined...

. 

Well you need to back up juuuust a tiny bit. Not everyone who opposes trump is a globalist, nor is every democrat or liberal a globalist. 

I personally find myself in this weird position where my preferences when it comes to social issues among others currently align with the dems yet I am also pro gun and pro states rights. That doesnt mean I believe in the democrat platform or its politicians, nor does it mean I believe in hillarys decades long drive towards globalism.  

 

We've gotta stop this "with us or against us" mentality, life is slightly more complicated than that.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Farmer77

[bee]

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deleted because I can't be bothered at the moment .... 

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Edited April 1, 2017 by bee

[+Hammerclaw]

5 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Well you need to back up juuuust a tiny bit. Not everyone who opposes trump is a globalist, nor is every democrat or liberal a globalist. 

I personally find myself in this weird position where my preferences when it comes to social issues among others currently align with the dems yet I am also pro gun and pro states rights. That doesnt mean I believe in the democrat platform or its politicians, nor does it mean I believe in hillarys decades long drive towards globalism.  

 

We've gotta stop this "with us or against us" mentality, life is slightly more complicated than that.

I just love how you guys cringe, when the Right talks to you the way you talk to them.

[Paranormal Panther]

22 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

You mean through things like expanding the "war on terror"? Or cozying up to Saudi Arabia? Or placing goldman sachs officials in powerful positions? 

 He's just the trailer park version of Bush/Obama, thats what makes this whole episode so beautiful they are simply eating their own and exposing the layer upon layer of filth in Washington and US politics in general. Im sincere when I say I hope the right learns from the left this time around and when they lose the congress in 2018 they utilize the exact same playbook. 

Trump was clearly lying when he said he wanted to "drain the swamp" but perhaps that's exactly what the long term ramifications of his thus far disastrous presidency will lead to. 

A little off topic but im becoming more and more concerned that the administration might be looking at North Korea as a way to change the narrative and secure its "legacy" 

I meant that his opposition planned to do and say all they could to make sure that it was a failed presidency. That would mean that it would be a continuation of the horrible Bush and Obama administrations. That aside, I agree with your point about him likely making the same mistakes as the other two. My only pass is that he might have thought that the Goldman Sachs guys were the best for the jobs, but it bothers me. It's likely that it's nigh impossible to drain all remnants of the deep state and the establishment party since they've been so entrenched for years. It's always more of the same, and it's something even worse when some changes *are* made (Obamacare). It may be systemic. The swamp might be bigger than we thought.

[Paranormal Panther]

21 hours ago, Merc14 said:

The idea here is to keep the Trump administration so busy stamping out phony fires that the hysterical press and angry democrats create from nothing, that they have no time to actually govern.  It is not going to stop, so the only thing Trump can do is make sure lawbreakers leaking classified information for political gain are imprisoned and criminals like Hillary are punished for their massive corruption and, most importantly, he follows through with his campaign promises and revitalizes the country.   Stick to the important things and ignore the insanity boiling out of the media and hard core left.

I agree with that. The main question is whether or not Trump will be able to go above and beyond all of that combined opposition. He was able to do so during the campaign season. This is more difficult, though. His opposition, in Congress, will have a more direct impact on him due to the very nature of legislation. Both Democrats and their media wings will discredit him at every turn. He *can* accomplish great things. It will be relatively miraculous if he does so, though.

[Einsteinium]

19 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Wait... So stolen data must be released. But, it is Trump talking to Russians that is a crime? Where is the real Treason here? I'd point at whomever leaked the intel as the real traitor. What exactly was it that the Trump team is accused of saying to the Russians that was treasonous? Fixing the election? Is there even real evidence of that, or just accusations?

I would like to see Schumer and Waters gone though... Hummmm..... 

I think the only thing treasonous there is about Obama not being born in America, and only because it was said about him after he was in Office. And even then, it is the kind of treason that you YOURSELF are doing right here on UM.

Have a nice day...

How I am I comittiing treason exactly. I have only ever claimed that Trump is a terrible president who is leading this nation into a dark future, I have never seriously said that that Trump was an illegimate president, just that he is utterly incopmentent, incapable of performing the duties, and clueless as to how the average person is affected by the policies he is proposing. But I have never once said he is illegitimate and should be shot or drawn and quartered.

[Einsteinium]

17 hours ago, bee said:

.

the Globalists and those who support them ultimately want open borders and the end to countries as we now know them -

so what else could they be, logically. but fake Americans...?... 

they don't want to Make America Great Again - quite the reverse I suspect -  
at the end of the day they have no national allegiance - and if they thought a serious conflict with Russia would move
their agenda forward... that's what they would engineer - never mind how many died or had their lives ruined...

. 

As a result of technology changes that are unstoppale at this point globalization is an inevitability. Any attempt to reverse it is a fallacy that will only serve to hurt everyone involved.

If globalism scares you it means that you do not want to compete with and/or acknowledge the existence of those who are living in dire conditions that you are basically just lucky to not have to endure yourself. We cannot ignore these people forever and expect to exploit them for our own selfish gains for long. They will rise up against the global order and the very technology that has allowed us all to connect with each other will be the tool that these people use to organize around and demand better lives.

For a long time now America has largely ignored or even exploited these groups of people, only a fool would think we could continue to do so forever. These people are human beings, just like you and I, and like the pilgrims of the past they see a system failing them and they are willing to risk it all to try and make a better life for themselves. Like it or not, this is going to affect us, and there is not a whole lot we can do about it if we truly claim and want to show the world that we are the moral authority.

The charade is up, we cannot ignore and exploit these people any longer, we cannot act as though we are one nation who is only responsible for ourselves. Globalization has become a grassroots endeavor and I for one fully support the efforts of the exploited to particpate and get a fair piece of the wealth pie that is growing. Ignore them at our own peril, they will come knocking eventually, either with weapons or with gifts of peace and cooperation.

[Einsteinium]

19 hours ago, DieChecker said:

It certainly is ironic, and myself, I don't think a lead ban was really hurting the ammunition industry much. I didn't see a need to reverse it myself. 

What was Trump's thinking on the reversal? Simply removing Regulation?

No, simply a total lack of understanding of environmental issues and why this type of regulation makes sense. Trump is an idiot, the guy does not even know how to use google, or use email for crying out loud. Anything he does or says is never backed up by anything besides his own  'gut feelings' and he clearly does not even make an attempt to analyze the long term impacts of his policy decisions. He does what he feels like, sometimes because he read an article on some oscure news site the night before and decided it was legitimate news that needed to be acted on.

[Yamato]

20 hours ago, bee said:

.

the Globalists and those who support them ultimately want open borders and the end to countries as we now know them -

so what else could they be, logically. but fake Americans...?... 

they don't want to Make America Great Again - quite the reverse I suspect -  
at the end of the day they have no national allegiance - and if they thought a serious conflict with Russia would move
their agenda forward... that's what they would engineer - never mind how many died or had their lives ruined...

. 

It's so silly that people from the US and UK think they're the ones getting screwed over by globalism.   If it wasn't for globalism the UK would have had no empire, there'd be no Commonwealth, there wouldn't be other countries thousands of miles away putting the Queen on their money.   The US would have never been a superpower.   This Alex Jones narrative that globalism hurts us is nonsense.  Thinking that China is ripping us off?    Saying that they're the ones "manipulating their currency" is nonsense.   Citing the trade deficit as the reason we're getting ripped off is more nonsense.  They send over real goods that we freely purchase, we send them IOUs we'll likely never pay for.   We're ripping them off.    Whoever runs on a platform of paying the debt back is someone who'll never get elected, so long as we can keep borrowing with central banks on the false promise of eternal growth.   And in Alex Jones' case, the false promise of eternal growth without globalism which in 2017 is even more ridiculous.

[+DieChecker]

2 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

How I am I comittiing treason exactly. I have only ever claimed that Trump is a terrible president who is leading this nation into a dark future, I have never seriously said that that Trump was an illegimate president, just that he is utterly incopmentent, incapable of performing the duties, and clueless as to how the average person is affected by the policies he is proposing. But I have never once said he is illegitimate and should be shot or drawn and quartered.

Didn't  you suggest that Trump talking about Obama wiretapping him was treason? All Trump did was make an accusation. You are, in turn, accusing Trump of being incompetent. Or, do you mean to say that some specific part of one of Trump's tweets was treasonous?

As far as I know treason in the US is defined as...

Quote

To avoid the abuses of the English law, treason was specifically defined in the United States Constitution, the only crime so defined. Article III, section 3 reads as follows:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Where does Trump fit into that definition? I was pointing out that your definition would include yourself, because... it was wrong.

 

[+DieChecker]

14 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

I just love how you guys cringe, when the Right talks to you the way you talk to them.

Maybe the Right should ask for marching in the streets with violence and flowing blood, like Rep Maxine Waters does?

Would that be tolerated? Like that idiot Maxine Waters is.

Edited April 2, 2017 by DieChecker