Let's talk history

[kmt_sesh]

3 hours ago, internetperson said:

You guys are d****.

Will have questions tomorrow. 

"D***"? Deranged, dastardly, demented, disoriented, dunder-headed?

It's all true.

[docyabut2]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:50 PM, kmt_sesh said:

It is very representative of a standard Egyptian riverine boat. They are better evidenced in later periods, such as examples on this page. You see the upturned bow and stern, the paddles thrusting into the water, and the cabin on the deck, including banners or flags billowing from the roof. Such depictions are common going back into prehistory.

Sorry kmt, but all I get on your links are yellow stars and no connections. :)

[back to earth]

Here ya go 

1.

https://www.google.com.au/search?newwindow=1&safe=off&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=1255&q=ancient+egyptian+boats&oq=ancient+egyptian+boats&gs_l=img.3..0l4j0i8i30k1l4j0i24k1l2.1717.5404.0.5716.23.22.0.0.0.0.283.2831.0j11j5.16.0....0...1.1.64.img..7.16.2830.0..35i39k1.hPXmCuHIiqI&gws_rd=cr&ei=Z6jUWOO5DsGC8wX5zoiYAQ

& 

2.

 

[back to earth]

Here is a loaded question       

Did the anceint Egyptians ever draw up  'comics' and 'cartoons'  ;   what sort of sense of hmour did they have ?    

[ShadowSot]

1 hour ago, kmt_sesh said:

"D***"? Deranged, dastardly, demented, disoriented, dunder-headed?

It's all true.

I was always a fan of dastardly myself. Never used enough, that word. 

[SHaYap]

An important chapter in the annals of TV Cartoon History ..

~

 

[00.00:24]

~

 

[back to earth]

how can i not approve !  

However I was thinking more along the cat and mouse theme . 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by back to earth

[ShadowSot]

As I recall, the Egyptians were fans of puns. In terms of humor, your mileage may vary. 

 

 So while reading on things today, I found mention of the Vinca script. Not heard of it before, but it is apparently contested as an even earlier script than cuneiform or hieroglyphs.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinča_symbols

[Gaden]

On 3/22/2017 at 9:00 PM, back to earth said:

 

Yo crazy  man .....   The drifter Dennis More never went in a boat ... he was  on a horse 

 

 

  Seems especially appropriate, since Terry Jones is, I believe, a noted historian.

[internetperson]

17 hours ago, back to earth said:

about how to get a date  ?  

Are you brave enough ?  ;  

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Not a gal in this world I'd do that for. 

Okay so before I post more technical questions I really am curious about a minor question I hinted at earlier about Zahi Hawass. 

I tried to find the video in particular that spawned this question but I cant find it. Long story short, Zahi Hawass was opening a sealed tomb. After chiseling away at it and managing to slide the top off he briefly stepped back and mentioned something about germs that can be sealed inside. Has anyone ever actually gotten sick from this? 

Regarding the video I think it was actually recorded live in the 90s. I think it was part pre recorded with general history lessons in AE and they'd occasionally cut back to how the excavation/whatever was going. I vaguely remember an Egyptologist I've seen in other documentaries and there was a gal who was the presenter, but may have been an Egyptologist as well. It was so cool. I saw it as a boy and instantly assumed I would become an Egyptologist/archaeologist/whatever. Unfortunately sometimes life likes to kick you in the teeth and ruin dreams.

[back to earth]

Ohhh .... errrr .... is it life that does that ?     Anyway ....    at least 'we who never made it '   have this . 

I even tried talking to my 2nd year archaeologist nephew when I was  visiting family in Sydney , hoping for some converse ..... not really , it seemed he had not  covered much at all and had no prior or overall  knowledge. Actually, I cant even remember what we talked about, he was  so  interesting . . . . .    wait !  ...   Maybe he isn't even an archaeology student !  (I wonder  what my sister is really paying for ? )  

Besides, think of all the money it would have cost you !   Better to just lay back and ask questions of those that already paid for it .      

Can I read your newspaper when you are finished ? 

 

( But seriously  -  much appreciated 'guys'   ! ) 

 

[internetperson]

24 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Ohhh .... errrr .... is it life that does that ?

My health is very poor and I can't go to college if I wanted to. I couldn't finish a welding class at a community college for my automotive endeavors. I was healthy till I turned 16 and life kicked me in the teeth. So IMO, yes, that's what it does. I still have aspirations but they involve making money from said automotive endeavors (can do it from home). That's a whole other topic though.

[Harte]

2 hours ago, internetperson said:

I tried to find the video in particular that spawned this question but I cant find it. Long story short, Zahi Hawass was opening a sealed tomb. After chiseling away at it and managing to slide the top off he briefly stepped back and mentioned something about germs that can be sealed inside. Has anyone ever actually gotten sick from this? 

Definitely possible.

http://www.antimicrobe.org/hisphoto/history/Aspergillus-Mummys curse.asp

An old U-M news article and thread about it:

Harte

 

 

 

[jmccr8]

21 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

"D***"? Deranged, dastardly, demented, disoriented, dunder-headed?

It's all true.

Yes and that's just one of us

jmccr8

[docyabut2]

4 hours ago, Harte said:

Definitely possible.

http://www.antimicrobe.org/hisphoto/history/Aspergillus-Mummys curse.asp

An old U-M news article and thread about it:

Harte

 

 

 

Thats true, they think all these curses on people opening these tombs that have died ,could have had been from the toxins.

[kmt_sesh]

6 hours ago, internetperson said:

Not a gal in this world I'd do that for. 

Okay so before I post more technical questions I really am curious about a minor question I hinted at earlier about Zahi Hawass. 

I tried to find the video in particular that spawned this question but I cant find it. Long story short, Zahi Hawass was opening a sealed tomb. After chiseling away at it and managing to slide the top off he briefly stepped back and mentioned something about germs that can be sealed inside. Has anyone ever actually gotten sick from this? 

Regarding the video I think it was actually recorded live in the 90s. I think it was part pre recorded with general history lessons in AE and they'd occasionally cut back to how the excavation/whatever was going. I vaguely remember an Egyptologist I've seen in other documentaries and there was a gal who was the presenter, but may have been an Egyptologist as well. It was so cool. I saw it as a boy and instantly assumed I would become an Egyptologist/archaeologist/whatever. Unfortunately sometimes life likes to kick you in the teeth and ruin dreams.

Leave it to Harte to track down the exact subject (see Post #263 above). He might be crotchety and jaded—it's the way of mathematicians—but Harte is all knowing.

I kind of remember this particular drama of Hawass's. For a while he was really into the mold-as-curse scenario and liked to entertain that for Tut's tomb. Nevertheless, this is a valid scientific phenomenon. Years back a team of researchers was wondering about the level of toxicity with mold in tombs, so they waited for a tomb discovered that hadn't been entered since ancient times. Such a tomb was discovered and they used arthroscopy to collect samples before anyone set foot in there. Analysis showed that there were toxic molds in there, but not at dangerous levels. An adult of ordinary health would not experience problems. It might be another matter for people with respiratory problems or immunosuppression disorders.

The one and only example I can think of is an account I read many years ago about a team excavating a subterranean ibis-mummy gallery, perhaps in the nineteenth century or early twentieth. They all got seriously ill and had to evacuate. They left the tomb open and it aired out, and when they returned no one experienced any more problems.

4 hours ago, internetperson said:

My health is very poor and I can't go to college if I wanted to. I couldn't finish a welding class at a community college for my automotive endeavors. I was healthy till I turned 16 and life kicked me in the teeth. So IMO, yes, that's what it does. I still have aspirations but they involve making money from said automotive endeavors (can do it from home). That's a whole other topic though.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're doing well these days. My own health problems started about three years ago, although I've had diabetes for over twenty years. It took this long for the disease to catch up to me...and boy has it caught up! Still, even though I am now fifty years old, I want to be an Egyptologist when I grow up. 

[Hanslune]

On 3/23/2017 at 5:33 PM, internetperson said:

You guys are d****.

Will have questions tomorrow. 

Demigods? Well, yes, .... but we do try to restrain our powers while dealing with mere mortals.

[kmt_sesh]

I often get the curse question at the museum. A lot of people believe it, or so it seems. This is especially popular with kids, although that's not surprising. Kids like weird stuff. I couldn't tell you how many kids I've met who want to ask me about tomb robbers. But when it comes to tomb curses, this is about 2% accurate and 98% flotsam perpetuated by the modern media.

I remember when the Field Museum had the Tut exhibit in 2006. I worked the exhibit and one evening I was at home watching a local news broadcast. A piece came on about the exhibit and they showed a close-up of the gold coffinette on display that used to hold the boy-king's mummified liver. The camera zoomed in to the interior of the coffinette so you could see all the inscriptions inside there. The anchor said, "And there's a curse inscribed inside this object." I sat there in my chair, shook my head, and yelled at the TV, "No, there isn't!"

Some tomb curses do exist. There aren't many of them, and most come from Old Kingdom tombs. They're typically inscribed into the lintel outside the door so you're warned before entering. Most curses have to do with entering pure and for the right reasons, and many don't even mention plundering. There's that famous old line "Death shall come on swift wings to him who disturbs the tomb of a pharaoh," but the amusing thing is that was never written in ancient Egypt. It was invented by a gothic novelist in the 1920s.

There is no curse inscribed anywhere inside Tut's tomb—not at the entrance, not on the walls, not on any of the artifacts. It was understood that to invade a king's tomb was to risk one's life. It was one of the only capital crimes in pharaonic Egypt. People often bring up Lord Carnarvon, the wealthy British nobleman who financed Howard Carter's excavation. While it's true Carnarvon died six months after KV62 was entered, what you don't often hear is that Carnarvon was an old and very sickly man to begin with. He was in Egypt to benefit from its dry climate, due to a compromised respiratory system from an old car accident.

It's definitely a fun topic to discuss, this curse business. But the truth is, tomb curses are more a part of movies than reality.

[kmt_sesh]

21 hours ago, back to earth said:

Here is a loaded question       

Did the anceint Egyptians ever draw up  'comics' and 'cartoons'  ;   what sort of sense of hmour did they have ?    

People often think of the Egyptians as a dour and humorless people. It's not true. If you look carefully you will find humor. Yours is a good example of the animals carrying out human activities, a popular theme in ancient Egypt. Don't some people do it today by making their dogs and cats wear absurd sweaters? There's an ostracon at the Oriental Institute here in Chicago that shows a boy being whipped by a cat:

Another well-known example (I think in Turin) shows animals playing the board game senet. A rather lurid example is the Turin Erotic Papyrus. It's sexually explicit and amusing for the sake of it. Given its content I'd best not post the image within the post, so check it out here.

I have a favorite personal example but can't seem to find an image of it. I had seen it in numerous books but never paid much attention to the depiction, until I was studying hieroglyphs and the Egyptologist explained it to us. The scene shows a group of men building a very large catafalque, which looks to be more than eight feet tall. At the top front you see a man on his knees and looking down to the ground. Down on the ground is a man standing with his arms upraised, as though upset. What I had always missed is a big wooden mallet lying on the toe of the man standing there. The guy up on the roof had dropped it. It's things like that which make it so fun to pour over the details of tomb and temple scenes.

Sex was always a big part of Egyptian humor, which reminds me of one more example I'll share. This one was risky and more for the entertainment of the person who painted it. It's a graffito in the Theban hills that shows a man engaged in naughty behavior with a king (again, I won't post it inline, so see this link). Now, no one knows for sure what's going on in this little scene, but if you notice, the "receiver" of the action is wearing a royal head cloth. The figure is also somewhat gracile. So perhaps it was a young king engaged in some naughty entertainment, but for a long time people have wondered if the king in this depiction is actually the great female pharaoh, Hatshepsut. That would make the man in the dominant position her most trusted advisor and likely paramour, the nobleman Senenmut.

It just goes to show the ancients could make fun of their kings just like we do with our presidents.

[internetperson]

Ohhh I didn't know mold was the issue. I thought it was a germ issue. Kinda reminds me of Montezuma's revenge or whatever it's called. 

I'm gonna have to find that damn video, I'm sure it's on youtube there's just so many AE videos on youtube it's hard to find. It was so cool I think the guy I'm thinking of is Mark Lehner and he was explaining how they fed the workers (who built the pyramids?) and that you can still find fish bones scattered around to this day. There was also an example of how someone had an arm amputated and that person survived and continued to work. Neat stuff. 

Next question: What's the deal with (what I think is called) the winged sun disk? Isn't it fairly prevalent and over the top of doorways? 

And on a smaller note how familiar are you with Sumerian history? I have around 60,000 questions about them. 

[Frank Merton]

Didn't they ever hear of corn starch?

[kmt_sesh]

1 hour ago, internetperson said:

Ohhh I didn't know mold was the issue. I thought it was a germ issue. Kinda reminds me of Montezuma's revenge or whatever it's called. I'm gonna have to find that damn video, I'm sure it's on youtube there's just so many AE videos on youtube it's hard to find. It was so cool I think the guy I'm thinking of is Mark Lehner and he was explaining how they fed the workers (who built the pyramids?) and that you can still find fish bones scattered around to this day. There was also an example of how someone had an arm amputated and that person survived and continued to work. Neat stuff. 

I don't think I found the video you're looking for but I came across this one on YouTube. It's an old interview with Hawass in which he discusses the subject of "germs" in tombs. He talks about many archaeologists in the old days dying from contamination, but that is merely a typical Hawass exaggeration. I know Egyptologists, have worked with them, have been studying their excavation reports and reading their books for over thirty years, and I've never heard of anyone actually dying from "germs." The fact is, snakes and scorpions are a lot more dangerous. Germs would refer to organisms that can cause or cause diseases, but that's not terribly likely. Whatever germs were on or in a mummy are now as dead as the mummy itself. Mold is another matter, however.

If you saw a documentary or special in which an Egyptologist was discussing pyramids, it's altogether possible it was Lehner. He is one of the leading experts on them and is in charge of the Giza Plateau Mapping Project. Lehner has a large body of literature and papers, and many of them are available online. He is fantastic.

Quote

Next question: What's the deal with (what I think is called) the winged sun disk? Isn't it fairly prevalent and over the top of doorways? 

The winged sun disk is a sun disk with wings.

Ha! Ain't I hilarious?

It's a powerful solar symbol in ancient Egypt and represents both royalty and divinity. The two were tightly interwoven in the ancient mind. In one sense it represents Re, the sun god, symbolic of eternal life and resurrection, but it also represents the winged falcon god Horus. I'm trying to remember but I believe the winged sun disk often represents the manifestation Horus of Edfu, known as Behedet. It can also represent the god Re-Horakhty (Re and Horus combined). Due to its connotations with life and resurrection it was a common motif in tombs and on jewelry. Yes, you often see it on the lintels above doorways in tombs and temples.

The symbol became popular elsewhere in the Near East, particularly Mesopotamia and Persia. I always think of this church that's on a round-about way to work, so I don't go that way very often. But whatever religion this church is, outside on their sign out front they have a beautiful winged sun disk.

Quote

And on a smaller note how familiar are you with Sumerian history? I have around 60,000 questions about them. 

Odd though it may seem I've never been terribly interested in Sumer, so I haven't studied that civilization as carefully as I have Egypt. I'm more familiar with the very beginnings of the Sumerians, such as their writing and city-states. But I'm not the only one who can answer questions here, so if you're wondering something, please do ask!

[back to earth]

2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

I often get the curse question at the museum. A lot of people believe it, or so it seems. This is especially popular with kids, although that's not surprising. Kids like weird stuff. I couldn't tell you how many kids I've met who want to ask me about tomb robbers. But when it comes to tomb curses, this is about 2% accurate and 98% flotsam perpetuated by the modern media.

I remember when the Field Museum had the Tut exhibit in 2006. I worked the exhibit and one evening I was at home watching a local news broadcast. A piece came on about the exhibit and they showed a close-up of the gold coffinette on display that used to hold the boy-king's mummified liver. The camera zoomed in to the interior of the coffinette so you could see all the inscriptions inside there. The anchor said, "And there's a curse inscribed inside this object." I sat there in my chair, shook my head, and yelled at the TV, "No, there isn't!"

Some tomb curses do exist. There aren't many of them, and most come from Old Kingdom tombs. They're typically inscribed into the lintel outside the door so you're warned before entering. Most curses have to do with entering pure and for the right reasons, and many don't even mention plundering. There's that famous old line "Death shall come on swift wings to him who disturbs the tomb of a pharaoh," but the amusing thing is that was never written in ancient Egypt. It was invented by a gothic novelist in the 1920s.

There is no curse inscribed anywhere inside Tut's tomb—not at the entrance, not on the walls, not on any of the artifacts. It was understood that to invade a king's tomb was to risk one's life. It was one of the only capital crimes in pharaonic Egypt. People often bring up Lord Carnarvon, the wealthy British nobleman who financed Howard Carter's excavation. While it's true Carnarvon died six months after KV62 was entered, what you don't often hear is that Carnarvon was an old and very sickly man to begin with. He was in Egypt to benefit from its dry climate, due to a compromised respiratory system from an old car accident.

It's definitely a fun topic to discuss, this curse business. But the truth is, tomb curses are more a part of movies than reality.

How much of this is based on fact ???  BUT  many years back there was a doco on TV about a story was before the Tut curse thingo that gave ot impetus . Supposedly it happened and everyone was a bit freaked out by the story, so when the 'Carter Curse' came along , everyone was charged up about it .    It was about the wives of some archaeologists ( Victorians  )   who got some stuff from a tomb,  made costumes and used the jewelry to put on a  magical pageant / show / performance , a la avante garde .

The locals were much UNimpressed and would not act in it or be extras . But a few did .

Supposedly a storm and hail came from nowhere and totalled it .  That night one of the woman woke from a terrible nightmare , she  told her maid that she dreamed that an  Egyptian God  angrily hit her in the head . Then she complained of a migraine, they took her to a doctor but she died from a cerebral hemorrhage . The   second woman awoke from a nightmare , told someone an Egyptian  God ... blah blah .. in the chest , and she died from a heart attack . So they  went to the third one and she was having the nightmare, they woke her up and Egyptian God .... the stomach , the ruched her to hospital and operated , she had a twisted bowl , but survived .

I saw this on TV,  years back .   I discounted it as   aside from the obvious ) , those are the three 'Masonic Wounds ' to the 3 villains ;  heard heart and stomach , and the story came out around the time , fringe masonry was adopting  pseudo-Egyptian  terms and  mimicking what they thought  were  the ancient's  'rites'  ( ie, they did  'pageants rites and magic shows '   themselves ) AND  also at time when 'Co-Masonry was trying to establish  itself (  masonry that allowed women ) and many men were outraged . So , great 'story'. 

But I dont know if it was true that this was advertised and  did put the wind up people and cause the Tut curse story to be amped up so much ? 

[back to earth]

1 hour ago, kmt_sesh said:

People often think of the Egyptians as a dour and humorless people. It's not true. If you look carefully you will find humor. Yours is a good example of the animals carrying out human activities, a popular theme in ancient Egypt. Don't some people do it today by making their dogs and cats wear absurd sweaters? There's an ostracon at the Oriental Institute here in Chicago that shows a boy being whipped by a cat:

Another well-known example (I think in Turin) shows animals playing the board game senet. A rather lurid example is the Turin Erotic Papyrus. It's sexually explicit and amusing for the sake of it. Given its content I'd best not post the image within the post, so check it out here.

I have a favorite personal example but can't seem to find an image of it. I had seen it in numerous books but never paid much attention to the depiction, until I was studying hieroglyphs and the Egyptologist explained it to us. The scene shows a group of men building a very large catafalque, which looks to be more than eight feet tall. At the top front you see a man on his knees and looking down to the ground. Down on the ground is a man standing with his arms upraised, as though upset. What I had always missed is a big wooden mallet lying on the toe of the man standing there. The guy up on the roof had dropped it. It's things like that which make it so fun to pour over the details of tomb and temple scenes.

Sex was always a big part of Egyptian humor, which reminds me of one more example I'll share. This one was risky and more for the entertainment of the person who painted it. It's a graffito in the Theban hills that shows a man engaged in naughty behavior with a king (again, I won't post it inline, so see this link). Now, no one knows for sure what's going on in this little scene, but if you notice, the "receiver" of the action is wearing a royal head cloth. The figure is also somewhat gracile. So perhaps it was a young king engaged in some naughty entertainment, but for a long time people have wondered if the king in this depiction is actually the great female pharaoh, Hatshepsut. That would make the man in the dominant position her most trusted advisor and likely paramour, the nobleman Senenmut.

It just goes to show the ancients could make fun of their kings just like we do with our presidents.

 

Funny how things we once could find , appear gone now ?

 

I am thinking of a piece 'The Great War Between the Cats and Dogs '  Cats and dogs fighting with Egyptian weapons dress and tactics , some funny little scenes included within the main one . 

Never been able it find it since  ! 

 

? CERN /  Mandela, Effect ? 

[internetperson]

2 minutes ago, back to earth said:

? CERN /  Mandela, Effect ? 

Ha! 

Okay very important question and it ties into my dating life which you *******s seem to be so invested in: I watched a netflix documentary on the sphinx yesterday and there was a dr melinda hartwig (?) on it. Surely one of you is in contact with her, please give me her number. I will follow that woman to the ends of the earth. Everyone wants to marry a massage therapist or a cook but that's nonsense. I need a gal with a brain.