Let's talk history

[oldrover]

1 hour ago, Carnivorfox said:

Anybody interested in discussing more modern history? I'm looking for info on the American Old West (1860's-1890's).

It started sometime around the end of 1859, and was pretty much over by the turn of the 20th Century. But I'm sketchy on the precise details. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by oldrover

[Parsec]

1 hour ago, Carnivorfox said:

Anybody interested in discussing more modern history? I'm looking for info on the American Old West (1860's-1890's).

Something specific? 

[Carnoferox]

57 minutes ago, oldrover said:

It started sometime around the end of 1859, and was pretty much over by the turn of the 20th Century. But I'm sketchy on the precise details. 

The beginning dates for the Old West period vary, from as early as the 1770's to as late as the 1850's. I am only really interested in the post-Civil War Old West.

38 minutes ago, Parsec said:

Something specific? 

I am interested in discussing lawmen in particular; their jobs, behavior, dress, lingo, etc.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Carnivorfox

[Parsec]

Unfortunately my knowledge of the Old West is based on Spaghetti Western movies and some John Wayne's (Back to the Future Part III doesn't really count), so I can hardly help, but I'm sure someone will have some answers for you. 

[kmt_sesh]

I'm also not well acquainted with the Old West so I can't be of much help, but that's what this thread is about. Hopefully someone can lend a hand.

[Oniomancer]

You could start with Wyatt Earp's autobiography, though he's considered to have embellished substantially.

[Windowpane]

There's also Andy Adams'  account of an 1882 cattle drive, Log of a Cowboy.

[Oniomancer]

43 minutes ago, Oniomancer said:

You could start with Wyatt Earp's autobiography, though he's considered to have embellished substantially.

Scratch that. It was a biography written by Stuart Lake from interviews with Earp:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyatt_Earp:_Frontier_Marshal

[Carnoferox]

I'm looking for factual accounts in particular, so not really looking for any fictionalized biographies. Are there any sources that just discuss lawmen and their habits in general (as opposed to singular individuals)?

[Khaemwaset]

On 3/23/2017 at 11:36 PM, kmt_sesh said:

Has it been verified or is it rumored that your namesake was discovered in the Serapaeum? I vaguely remember something about that but can't recall the particulars.

It is a curiosity.  Mariette's detailed notes have disappeared along with much else related to this important find.  The 'story' goes that, using explosives to bypass a huge block, an intact coffin containing a mummy was found among the debris; a gold mask and amulets found on the mummy gave the name of Khaemwese, and it is said Mariette believed he'd found the prince, buried in the Serapaeum which would be feasible considering his tasks there, and his titles.  However, as crown prince at his death, he could have chosen to be buried in the VofK as well.  The Searpaeum mummy has disappeared.(!)  These days there is a 'belief' that it was not the prince and HPoP, but a mummified bull wrapped up in the guise of a human, with Khaemwaset's identifiers.  Why this would be, I do not know.  It is truly strange.

Whilst first exploring the Serapeum,

[docyabut2]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 9:34 PM, kmt_sesh said:

All right, docy, you have me intrigued. I've never been to the Toledo Museum of Art but have heard about it, and it sounds like the Egyptian collection is very nice. Doing some reading online, I was able to learn that museum has two mummies, one of a young priest and another of an elderly man.

Was the mummy you remember in this coffin? Stylistically it's Late Period and probably Dynasty 26. It's identified as the coffin of Ta-Mit, who was from a family of hereditary priests. The Toledo museum does have this mummy, so this must be the young priest. Try as I might, however, I can't find a single photo of either of the Toledo mummies.

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Can anyone who's better at searching the web than I am, track down photos of one of both of these mummies in Toledo?

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I'm not surprised the mummy left such an impression on you, docy. I meet plenty of people your age (and considerably older) who visited our exhibit at the Field thirty or more years ago and yet vividly remember our mummies. They tend to stick in your memory. Mummies are compelling.

Of the many occupied coffins we have on display in our exhibit, one is of a man's coffin with a woman's body and the other is a woman's coffin with a man's body. It happens. This was often the result of shady antiquities deals a hundred years ago. I don't know how Toledo acquired its Egyptian antiquities but it was probably similar to how we did it at the Field: starting back in the nineteenth century our founders traveled to Egypt and spent years going to auctions in the cities. We bought almost all of our stuff, and I'm willing to bet it's similar to what Toledo did. Back then, if an antiquities dealer had an empty coffin and a random mummy, he might put them together to fetch more money for them at auction. It took modern imaging technology (X-rays, CT scans) and a better understanding of forensic anthropology to identify most mummies' genders with certainty.

Anyway, it sounds like a very nice collection there, docy. I think you should head over this weekend and relive your childhood. 

I remember this small mummy all wrapped in brown wrappings.At first they thought it was a  women.  But like you said the coffins the mummies are in are all mixed up. So how do they really  know who these people were in Egyptian history and are they  just guessing?   

[cern]

On 3/28/2017 at 5:28 PM, Carnivorfox said:

The beginning dates for the Old West period vary, from as early as the 1770's to as late as the 1850's. I am only really interested in the post-Civil War Old West.

I am interested in discussing lawmen in particular; their jobs, behavior, dress, lingo, etc.

have you watched ken burns "the west". youtube rules

[Carnoferox]

5 minutes ago, cern said:

have you watched ken burns "the west". youtube rules

No I have not, but I'll give it a watch sometime.

[cern]

2 minutes ago, Carnivorfox said:

No I have not, but I'll give it a watch sometime.

it might be 10 hours? long. its a commitment.

[kmt_sesh]

3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

I remember this small mummy all wrapped in brown wrappings.At first they thought it was a  women.  But like you said the coffins the mummies are in are all mixed up. So how do they really  know who these people were in Egyptian history and are they  just guessing?   

That's the question, isn't it? We simply can't be sure in all cases. The identities of some of the royal mummies are occasionally disputed to this day, but advances in modern medical imaging have proved useful. Around 2007, for example, the mummy long thought to be Tuthmosis I was CT scanned. Analysis of the images showed the mummy to be of a man in his thirties, which would've been too young for Tuthmosis I; even more surprising, this mummy was found to have an arrowhead in its chest, and it was the likely cause of death. There is no evidence Tuthmosis I died in this manner, so more than likely the mummy is not his.

Only certain criteria make identification completely confident:

• If the tomb was not molested at any point in history and everything in there is intact.
• If outer portions of the tomb were robbed but the crypt with the sarcophagus was untouched (this is the case with King Tut).
• If it's a simpler burial (such as standard interment) and the coffin and mummy inside are untouched.
• If an intact burial is evident, and the coffin is inscribed and there's writing on the bandages with a name matching that on the coffin (this doesn't happen as often).
• If the mummy tells you its name. Just kidding. If you think a mummy is speaking to you, seek psychiatric counseling!

These are just some examples. In many cases we can be certain of identification, but not in all cases. I can think of one coffin at the Field Museum whose painted glyphs are so faded we can't read the writing anymore; and there's another in very good shape and with writing, but no name is on there. We will never know the names of these two people. And a number of our other mummies have no writing at all on them or, if they exist, on their coffins, so their names are forever lost.

[back to earth]

So  ......   you are ; location - Orkney ,  time - ' pre- Stonehenge' ,   you want to move some large slabs or  blocks of stone, there isnt much wood about, the terrain is flat and grassy but also peat bogs, undulating and  broken terrain; over rocks.

How do you move the 'stones'  .....  like these  ^     .....  or, more correctly, how did a team of archaeologists and some locals  do it , much more efficiently and easier than  their previous attempts . 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by back to earth

[back to earth]

No one  ?    .........

[kmt_sesh]

9 minutes ago, back to earth said:

No one  ?    .........

I don't know. There are no geysers in that area, are there?

[Essan]

10 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

I don't know. There are no geysers in that area, are there?

No  

But there would have been more trees and much less bog back then, with a milder, drier climate.  And the sea level was also lower. 

There would, nonetheless, have still been plenty of seaweed available   

[back to earth]

Bingo ! 

A thick bed of seaweed made like a raised road. It took a bit to drag the slab  'up' onto it , but once there, it took off, so much so that as it started moving and easily moved from their first initial pull,  many people stopped pulling but a few kept up the tension on the ropes and were actually in a near run as they were towing it  with the block skating along until it came to the end of the weed , and continued along the grass until the goop  underneath the stone was gone . 

You may choose one chocky-pop;

 

 

[back to earth]

Why did the neolithic (or earlier) peoples of  Britain  get  animals ( horse, cattle, etc ) cut  them into large pieces ( without defleshing) and reassemble the parts of different animals together ( like a cow head with a horse jaw) like a chimera and then bury them ? 

[Merc14]

5 minutes ago, back to earth said:

Why did the neolithic (or earlier) peoples of  Britain  get  animals ( horse, cattle, etc ) cut  them into large pieces ( without defleshing) and reassemble the parts of different animals together ( like a cow head with a horse jaw) like a chimera and then bury them ? 

Future serial killers?

[back to earth]

Errrmmmm ... noooo , if anything, on that level - maybe 'zoomorphic shamanic offering'   (not that  this above practice even closely compares to anything I am familiar with  - the shaman's bones and body parts might be 'replaced' during his 'experience'  )  .... but I have never heard of this being literally done with animals and then buying them . 

By the way ; many components in a shamanic initiatory experience ( like the above )  can be shown to be the inverse of some crimes serial killers and other psychopaths commit . 

Edited April 6, 2017 by back to earth

[kmt_sesh]

I didn't know about this practice. This is evidenced in prehistoric Britain? Were these chimera buried in signifiant sites (such as near henges)?

[Merc14]

1 hour ago, back to earth said:

Errrmmmm ... noooo , if anything, on that level - maybe 'zoomorphic shamanic offering'   (not that  this above practice even closely compares to anything I am familiar with  - the shaman's bones and body parts might be 'replaced' during his 'experience'  )  .... but I have never heard of this being literally done with animals and then buying them . 

By the way ; many components in a shamanic initiatory experience ( like the above )  can be shown to be the inverse of some crimes serial killers and other psychopaths commit . 

I was kidding.