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kmt_sesh

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9 minutes ago, Swede said:

Composition may be the critical determinant. Also, keep in mind glacial transport. The area in question has been glaciated four separate times. Thus, a great deal of reworking. Unless the impact occurred post-Pleistocene, the fragments are an import.

Willamette is close in composition too but that was carried by the Missoula Floods which reworked everything. 

Change of subject.

The R to L shift in Southern Unami happened 100 years after contact. I'm thinking the L was introduced by English speaker. But I'm still working on comparisons with Nivkh. 

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I was just reading this article and thought I would add it as it discusses women's participation in types of professions in ancient Egypt.

Some archaeologists rejoice in opening graves that have been sealed for millennia, while others marvel when their lab work reveals the hidden past of a particular person. During routine analysis of a skeletal collection from ancient Mendes, two archaeologists discovered odd tooth wear in an older Egyptian woman that suggested her body had more to tell them about her life.

Archaeologists Discover A New Profession In An Ancient Egyptian Woman's Teeth

jmccr8

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On 4/21/2019 at 4:10 PM, Piney said:

Willamette is close in composition too but that was carried by the Missoula Floods which reworked everything. 

Change of subject.

The R to L shift in Southern Unami happened 100 years after contact. I'm thinking the L was introduced by English speaker. But I'm still working on comparisons with Nivkh. 

Chuckle! Your boredom with topics related to Atlantis and Egypt is showing.

Disclaimer: While having formally studied and utilized four languages, linguistics is not my forte', nor a research focus. Thus, any comments will be simple observations.

It is interesting to note that other, currently more central Algonquian languages, traditionally have neither an R nor an L.

It is also interesting to note that a brief review indicates that the Nivkh language contains forms of both the R and L, though expressed with, to us, unconventional vocalizations such as a trill (R).

It would appear that there was contact between Nivkh speakers and, amongst others, the Ainu. From a bioarchaeology/morphology perspective, the Kennewick recovery presented Ainu-like cranial characteristics.

We then have the Beringia Standstill hypothesis, extended timeline, the malleability of languages, and the comparatively recent origins of proto-Algonquian.

My thought would be that additional research into linguistic construction and so on may be worthwhile. For example, agglutinating synthetic (Nivkh) compared and contrasted to polysynthetic (at least some Algonquian). And yes, there is overlap. Given the timeline, a daunting task from my limited perspective.

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Swede
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2 minutes ago, Swede said:

My thought would be that additional research into linguistic construction and so on may be worthwhile. For example, agglutinating synthetic (Nivkh) compared and contrasted to polysynthetic (at least some Algonquian). And yes, there is overlap. Given the timeline, a daunting task from my limited perspective.

 

I'm all over Ives Goddards stuff. It's just finding enough remaining Ritwan.

Nanticoke-Choptank, which is related to Central Agonquian does have a R-L. It sounds like a combination of both. It also has a direct B to G shift. Where in the far Northeast it was a B-K then in New York Proto Lenape-Mohican  aka Common Delaware was a direct B-P shift.  Delaware, Southeastern and Central Algonquian also have Siouian loan words. Northern Algonquian doesn't.

 The Hopewell interaction sphere must of been some complicated stuff.

 I received a paper on language trees. The Algonquian tree is wrong so I want you to look at the Siouian tree when I find a PDF of it. 

 

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Swede paid me in shiny new Euros to put this link up to annoy Piney:

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/09/15/nazis-considered-sioux-extension-native-americans-aryans-2/

What can one buy for three Euros?

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On 4/22/2019 at 5:06 PM, Piney said:

I'm all over Ives Goddards stuff. It's just finding enough remaining Ritwan.

Nanticoke-Choptank, which is related to Central Agonquian does have a R-L. It sounds like a combination of both. It also has a direct B to G shift. Where in the far Northeast it was a B-K then in New York Proto Lenape-Mohican  aka Common Delaware was a direct B-P shift.  Delaware, Southeastern and Central Algonquian also have Siouian loan words. Northern Algonquian doesn't.

 The Hopewell interaction sphere must of been some complicated stuff.

 I received a paper on language trees. The Algonquian tree is wrong so I want you to look at the Siouian tree when I find a PDF of it. 

 

Yes, Goddard has performed some truly in-depth research and addresses the complexities involved. It really is an intricate weave.

In regards to consonant interchange, one could also include the Central Algonquian P-B shift and the CH-J shift. The difficulty with these is that they are apparently recent (Fur Trade era), may be more dialect related, and, due to the era, subject to both speaker expression and listener interpretation. The dropping of initial vowels also occurred.

And Hopewell complexity: Indeed so. Given just the geographical span involved, the lifeways and languages involved were quite varied. It is interesting to speculate upon the day-to-day inter-group interactions and the rather convoluted trade networks. One also wonders how much of a role sign language may have played.

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Swede
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1 minute ago, Swede said:

One also wonders how much of a role sign language may have played.

I think sign was universal and only remained on the Plains after contact. There are old Moravian and Quaker accounts of using sign on top of Capt. John Smith mentioning it. I did record all the instances where sign was recorded East of the Mississippi. But it was lost with the rest of my papers while I was in prison. 

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6 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Swede paid me in shiny new Euros to put this link up to annoy Piney:

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/09/15/nazis-considered-sioux-extension-native-americans-aryans-2/

What can one buy for three Euros?

Nothing that would stop a 30 inch bar with a .63 full chisel on it. :)

 

chainsaw-smiley-emoticon.gif

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7 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Swede paid me in shiny new Euros to put this link up to annoy Piney:

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/09/15/nazis-considered-sioux-extension-native-americans-aryans-2/

What can one buy for three Euros?

A pair of chainsaw-proof greaves, hopefully.

Harte

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7 minutes ago, Harte said:

A pair of chainsaw-proof greaves, hopefully.

Harte

Athletic supporter. :)

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5 hours ago, Piney said:

Athletic supporter. :)

Harte uses chromed 4" anchor bolts instead.

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19 hours ago, Piney said:

I think sign was universal and only remained on the Plains after contact. There are old Moravian and Quaker accounts of using sign on top of Capt. John Smith mentioning it. I did record all the instances where sign was recorded East of the Mississippi. But it was lost with the rest of my papers while I was in prison. 

I have the opinion sign language in various forms was necessary in groups using primitive hunting techniques requiring the hunter to get extremely close to prey. Once firearms come into use hunting methods no longer require stalking the prey so carefully or groups of hunters working together in silence to approach and drop large prey. Like slang words it would naturally integrate into daily use and faded as it was no longer a necessary tool. 

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7 minutes ago, BorizBadinov said:

I have the opinion sign language in various forms was necessary in groups using primitive hunting techniques requiring the hunter to get extremely close to prey. Once firearms come into use hunting methods no longer require stalking the prey so carefully or groups of hunters working together in silence to approach and drop large prey. Like slang words it would naturally integrate into daily use and faded as it was no longer a necessary tool. 

Sign in North America came about probably because of trade due to the fact it was universal among tribes who didn't speak the same language. I'm under the opinion it originated with the Hopewell Interaction Sphere. 

Hand signals probably originated with hunting but North American sign was far more complicated. 

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On 4/23/2019 at 5:13 PM, Piney said:

I think sign was universal and only remained on the Plains after contact. There are old Moravian and Quaker accounts of using sign on top of Capt. John Smith mentioning it. I did record all the instances where sign was recorded East of the Mississippi. But it was lost with the rest of my papers while I was in prison. 

Would tend to agree. Anecdotes:

  • In my many years of working with traditional elders (including Mide'), both personally and professionally, the topic of a lost "high language" has surfaced on more than one occasion. The language is considered to have been "universal" and allowed the more "elite" to communicate with dis-similar language groups. One less-than-authoritative "new elder" considered the "high language" to be spoken. However, the input of others has prompted me to doubt this claim.
  • The utilization of sign language amongst some central groups still exists in certain social situations.
  • Example: From across a campfire or crowded room, catch the eye of a female. Form the modern "peace" sign with the index and middle fingers. Place the fingers in a horizontal manner against the bridge of the nose and drag to the side of the face. Rotate the horizontal sign to a vertical position. This act is performed in a quick and subtle manner.

Translation available if needed (!).

Oh my, have we revealed another "secret".

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Swede
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120kya in Australia? Bowler et al’s report on the Moyjil site is a model for how to present claims of early presence (of humans)

https://archeothoughts.wordpress.com/2019/03/13/120kya-in-australia-bowler-et-als-report-on-the-moyjil-site-is-a-model-for-how-to-present-claims-of-early-presence/

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12 hours ago, Hanslune said:

120kya in Australia? Bowler et al’s report on the Moyjil site is a model for how to present claims of early presence (of humans)

https://archeothoughts.wordpress.com/2019/03/13/120kya-in-australia-bowler-et-als-report-on-the-moyjil-site-is-a-model-for-how-to-present-claims-of-early-presence/

Great link. Sums up the concerns I had with the paper, which I voiced in another thread. 

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(April 22)  New research shows that in ancient Guatemala, large sculptures were carved from magnetic stones struck by lightning:

Quote

Lightning strikes probably magnetized sections of boulders that were later carved into stylized, rotund figures — known as potbellies — at the Guatemalan site of Monte Alto, say Harvard University geoscientist Roger Fu and his colleagues. Artisans may have held naturally magnetized mineral chunks near iron-rich, basalt boulders to find areas in the rock where magnetic forces pushed back, the scientists say in the June Journal of Archaeological Science.  Predesignated parts of potbelly figures — which can stand more than 2 meters tall and weigh 10,000 kilograms or more — were then carved at those spots.  ScienceNews.org

Quote

The apparently intentional colocation of carved anatomical features and pre-existing magnetized regions implies that the sculptors were able to detect the presence of anomalous magnetic fields, which may have been facilitated by lodestones similar to iron oxide artifacts and iron-ore mirrors. Our observations strengthen the case for an awareness of magnetism in the ancient New World. Journal of Archaeological Science

5cc3656e4258e_magneticsculptureguatemala.jpg.5069044b2d65a5d4f7fe1b99e7bcf1a7.jpg                                                                                                                                                           

guat sculpt.jpg

                                                                                   photos: ScienceNews

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ancient-sculptures-guatemala-magnetic-rocks-struck-lightning

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440318305776  (abstract/link JAS, volume 106, June 2019)

 

.

Edited by The Wistman
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See, now THIS is the kind of sheet I'm looking for on a forum like this.

Harte

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14 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

I was assuming that pic above was the god of constipation. 

—Jaylemurph 

The modern version (according to the beguiled):

giphy.gif

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1663 Chinese map map of the world incorporating the knowledge of the discoveries of the Americas - kinda

 Wang Junfu Chinese Map of Ming China and World

 

main-qimg-0b7fd646ee537a496548866df3507c

Quote

Beyond China, the bordering kingdoms with which China would have had the most active commerce, Japan, Korea, the Ryukyu Kingdom, India, and Southeast Asia, are represented only textually, in large blocks situated in a manner loosely analogous to their physical proximity to China.. some small islands to the east of China bear interesting floral descriptions of the local inhabitants, such as the 'Land of the Hairy People,' a traditional Chinese reference to the Ainu of modern day Hokkaido. Also referenced is the 'Land of Women' [perhaps referring to] Aleuts…

In contrast, the cartographer does actually attempt to map foreign lands such as Europe, America, and Africa. Africa appears as a large peninsula at the extreme west of the map. While the general form and placement of Africa is vague, the Nile River, with a clear Ptolemaic dual lake model, is very much in evidence. Further north, a large body of water is recognizable as the Mediterranean Sea, with the Black Sea apparent and well formed just to the northeast. Europe is vague but the forms of Italy, Greece, Spain, France, and even Denmark are recognizable. Off the coast England (but not Ireland) is identified as Pueliya, an erroneous linguistic derivative of Aneliya or Anglia. Further north, the cartographer identifies the 'Land of Dwarves', a concept drawn from the 1602 Chinese-Jesuit Matteo Ricci map.

On the opposite side of the map, in the extreme northeast we can find a colorful mountainous island. This is Cuba. To the northwest there is another seeminly insular mass, that with some imagination, can be understood as North America. Florida, Mexico, Baja California, the Chesapeake Bay, Nova Scotia, and the St. Lawrence are all identifiable. At the bottom of the map, another island mass is South America, which is identified as the Land of Giants, another reference to Ricci, and in turn to Magellan's stories of giants in Patagonia

This map was made to conform with the Chinese belief that they were the center of a square world.

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On 4/26/2019 at 7:03 PM, jaylemurph said:

I was assuming that pic above was the god of constipation. 

—Jaylemurph 

It's a correct assumption. Now that I'm getting to know better some of the regulars, when I read that man was made in god's image, that's precisely the god I picture in whose image you were made...a full-fledged image.

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OK....

The Graham Hancock term of the week is "Clovis arrowhead". :yes:

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https://www.academia.edu/5990200/Archaeoastronomy_in_the_Sahara_the_tombs_of_the_Garamantes_at_Wadi_El_Agial_Fezzan_Libya

Archaeoastronomy in the Sahara: the tombs of the Garamantes at Wadi El Agial, Fezzan, Libya
An old report on these finds.
 
1-3fab8cfbff.jpg
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A small part of a assemblage of a multigenerational Late Archaic  lithic workshop on Mantua Creek, one mile from the Delaware River. 

5b586de72041b_Webp.net-resizeimage(6).jpg.ea8e4c5e5191f4356e89dce5fd070906.jpg

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