Let's talk history

[ShadowSot]

3 hours ago, Piney said:

Blue Atlas/ Lebanon? 

I only use it to chainsaw out knicky-knacky crap like Totem poles, Tikis and Bears.  It's primo for crap like that but if you want pretty grain or durable kitchen stuff that won't go moldy it's not the thing to use.

I only use white or red oak for utensils and cutting boards because it's durable and has anti-bacterial properties.

Get some very nice white and red oak off of pallets. Utensils are on my list of things to work on, was given a set of carving tools a few months back. 

 We get loads of steel coil occasionally, the pallets are all dried and rough oak of various species, no chemical treatment given. 

 Even more occasionally we get some very dense maple, almost waxy. Great for turning small ornaments and knick knacks. 

[Piney]

50 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

 Even more occasionally we get some very dense maple, almost waxy. Great for turning small ornaments and knick knacks. 

Silver maple. 

[Swede]

23 hours ago, Piney said:

Your right. Atlantic Whites are cypresses. I forgot.

Apologies for possibly being a bit brusque. Time. It is a matter of taxonomy. The North American cedars are of the family Cupressaceae, Thus, cypresses. The distinction involves the genus level ie Juniperus vs Thuja. There are actually a number of representatives of the genus Thuja including Northern White cedar and Western Red cedar. You are likely more familiar with the Eastern Red cedar (genus Juniperus), a pioneer species. The Northern White cedar, in addition to Eastern Red cedar, were both culturally significant to the Great Lakes Algonquian speakers.

.

 

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Swede said:

The Northern White cedar, in addition to Eastern Red cedar, were both culturally significant to the Great Lakes Algonquian speakers.

With us it was Atlantic White for masks, boxes and canoes, Eastern Red for smudge. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Piney
**** Atlantis

[ShadowSot]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

Silver maple. 

Cheers, I'll check it out. Made a rattle for my nephew and it came out great. 

[Piney]

1 hour ago, ShadowSot said:

Cheers, I'll check it out. Made a rattle for my nephew and it came out great. 

That's what they originally made all the wooden toys from. It grew fast and didn't dent easily or splinter. 

 

[Oniomancer]

4 hours ago, Piney said:

Silver maple. 

Somehow dense and silver maple don't really go together in my mind. Around here it's usually lumped in with red under the sobriquet soft maple. But then I've not much experience with it beyond the branches it drops like manna after a good wind.

Apropos of the thread, silver maple and box elder were historically tapped by natives for syrup along with the other maples, box elder especially, though tappers don't seem to know it as much now.

[Piney]

5 hours ago, Oniomancer said:

Apropos of the thread, silver maple and box elder were historically tapped by natives for syrup along with the other maples, box elder especially, though tappers don't seem to know it as much now.

my people tapped elders, silver maples and fox grapes. Sugar maple didn't grow in South Jersey or Delaware.  

[Tatetopa]

On 9/17/2019 at 3:26 PM, ShadowSot said:

Get some very nice white and red oak off of pallets. Utensils are on my list of things to work on, was given a set of carving tools a few months back. 

 We get loads of steel coil occasionally, the pallets are all dried and rough oak of various species, no chemical treatment given. 

 Even more occasionally we get some very dense maple, almost waxy. Great for turning small ornaments and knick knacks. 

I used to work with a logger who made a sizable portion of his living from maple trees.  Heading up to a site or down after work he would scout for maple trees.  He was looking for a good sized one, 3' or so in diameter with a lot of convolutions in the bark.. Alder and maple would grow along some of the lower creek drainage and the Forest Service and mills considered them trash trees, so he could get a permit to buy a large one for a few bucks.. 

He would fall  them, cut them into about 4 foot chunks and use his chainsaw to quarter saw out blanks for gunstocks. which he would dry for a couple of years and sell.  The blanks with the best figuring he would saw on a bandsaw into boards for fiddleback.  Lots of work, and a couple years drying time, but a good bit of money out of a very few trees.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

He would fall  them, cut them into about 4 foot chunks and use his chainsaw to quarter saw out blanks for gunstocks. which he would dry for a couple of years and sell.  The blanks with the best figuring he would saw on a bandsaw into boards for fiddleback.  Lots of work, and a couple years drying time, but a good bit of money out of a very few trees.

1 inch a year in a dry loft "sticked and stacked".  I quarter sawed plenty of maple and cherry for carvers using the 90 with the Alaska Mill. 

[Mellon Man]

On 9/11/2019 at 3:44 PM, Piney said:

The Anatolian Neolithic farmers had sheep and goats in that area. Do you think they might of brought them when they sailed around and founded the Atlantic Neolithic Culture?

@Mellon Man Has any goat or sheep remains been found in British Neolithic sites? 

If folks got it from their mommies I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to figure out. My people took the milk from pregnant does and cooked with it. 

Yes. Goats, compared to sheep however, were most likely not used as a source of meat or milk. But likely used to lead the flock of sheep. Some goats were even given special burials, which could suggest a special role in Neolithic Britian. 

If you need any literature on the subject, just let me know. 

[Orphalesion]

I have a question!

So....we all know that in mythology Artemis had those hunters and huntresses that pledged their lives to her and stayed virginal hunters and stuff.

Are those completely mythological or were there really women in Ancient Greece who pledged themselves to be virginal huntresses in Artemis' honour?
I could see it happening in Sparta, possibly. But not so much in the rest of Ancient Greece...

[Piney]

21 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I have a question!

So....we all know that in mythology Artemis had those hunters and huntresses that pledged their lives to her and stayed virginal hunters and stuff.

Are those completely mythological or were there really women in Ancient Greece who pledged themselves to be virginal huntresses in Artemis' honour?
I could see it happening in Sparta, possibly. But not so much in the rest of Ancient Greece...

She originated as Britomartis, the Minoan goddess of the sea and hunt but we don't know anything about her priestesses. 

[jaylemurph]

4 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

I have a question!

So....we all know that in mythology Artemis had those hunters and huntresses that pledged their lives to her and stayed virginal hunters and stuff.

Are those completely mythological or were there really women in Ancient Greece who pledged themselves to be virginal huntresses in Artemis' honour?
I could see it happening in Sparta, possibly. But not so much in the rest of Ancient Greece...

Ancient Greek women didn’t have a lot of freedom, so it seems to me unlikely to have happened in real life. But there were Bacchae and who knows what they got up to at Eleusis, so maybe? 
 

—Jaylemurph 

[Mellon Man]

16 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

I have a question!

So....we all know that in mythology Artemis had those hunters and huntresses that pledged their lives to her and stayed virginal hunters and stuff.

Are those completely mythological or were there really women in Ancient Greece who pledged themselves to be virginal huntresses in Artemis' honour?
I could see it happening in Sparta, possibly. But not so much in the rest of Ancient Greece...

Short answer: Yes. 

Pausanias, Description of Greece 8. 5. 11.
"There is a sanctuary of Artemis, surnamed Hymnia (Of Hymns), standing on the borders of Orkhomenos [in Arkadia], near the territory of Mantineia. Artemis Hymnia has been worshipped by all the Arkadians from the most remote period. At that time the office of priestess to the goddess was still always held by a girl who was a virgin. The maiden persisted in resisting the advances of Aristokrates, but at last, when she had taken refuge in the sanctuary, she was outraged by him near the image of Artemis. When the crime came to be generally known, the Arkadians stoned the culprit, and also changed the rule for the future; as priestess of Artemis they now appoint, not a virgin, but a woman who has had enough of intercourse with men."

[Orphalesion]

2 hours ago, Mellon Man said:

 as priestess of Artemis they now appoint, not a virgin, but a woman who has had enough of intercourse with men."

So a lady who was "over this ****" eh?

[Tatetopa]

On 9/19/2019 at 2:58 AM, Mellon Man said:

Some goats were even given special burials, which could suggest a special role in Neolithic Britian. 

If you need any literature on the subject, just let me know. 

Quick question.  I think Thor's chariot was supposedly pulled by goats that he killed and ate each night and brought back to life each morning.  Did goats have a significant role in Neolithic culture?  Being neither farmer nor herdsman, I don't know any but their obvious properties, milk and meat.  Were goats better suited than sheep to the rigors of neolithic subsistence in northern Europe?   Some other reason?  Thanks.

[Jarocal]

4 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Quick question.  I think Thor's chariot was supposedly pulled by goats that he killed and ate each night and brought back to life each morning.  Did goats have a significant role in Neolithic culture?  Being neither farmer nor herdsman, I don't know any but their obvious properties, milk and meat.  Were goats better suited than sheep to the rigors of neolithic subsistence in northern Europe?   Some other reason?  Thanks.

Both provide meat, milk, fibers, and leather. Both are more easily handled than cows. They also can subsist on less. But goat tastes far better than lamb or mutton.

[Mellon Man]

38 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Quick question.  I think Thor's chariot was supposedly pulled by goats that he killed and ate each night and brought back to life each morning.  Did goats have a significant role in Neolithic culture?  Being neither farmer nor herdsman, I don't know any but their obvious properties, milk and meat.  Were goats better suited than sheep to the rigors of neolithic subsistence in northern Europe?   Some other reason?  Thanks.

1. Yes, evidence would suggest so. There are quite a few sites, where goats have been given special burials.
2. Goats are highly intelligent compared to sheep, and were likely used to guide the sheep. 

Let me know if you need references on the topic.

[Piney]

25 minutes ago, Mellon Man said:

1. Yes, evidence would suggest so. There are quite a few sites, where goats have been given special burials.
2. Goats are highly intelligent compared to sheep, and were likely used to guide the sheep. 

Let me know if you need references on the topic.

 

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Quick question.  I think Thor's chariot was supposedly pulled by goats that he killed and ate each night and brought back to life each morning.  Did goats have a significant role in Neolithic culture?  Being neither farmer nor herdsman, I don't know any but their obvious properties, milk and meat.  Were goats better suited than sheep to the rigors of neolithic subsistence in northern Europe?   Some other reason?  Thanks.

The Basques had a "Goat God" and their ancestors were the Neolithic Farmers. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

 

The Basques had a "Goat God" and their ancestors were the Neolithic Farmers. 

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

How did my mother get involved here???? 

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, Mellon Man said:

Let me know if you need references on the topic.

No references required, but another quick follow up question for all the knowledgeable.

When did wool become commonly used in textiles in Northern Europe and Neolithic Britain?   One of the values of sheep, which are dumber than goats, and maybe less hardy  is fleece. I have seen that the oldest preserved example of Northern European wool textile comes from a Danish bog dated around 1500 BC.  Before shears, wool was plucked by hand or with bronze combs the source says.  That seems rather tedious, and even worse if you only had wooden combs. 

Without the widespread use of woolen textiles, goats seem to be the winner as man's second best friend.  Any enlightenment will be appreciated.

[Orphalesion]

2 hours ago, Piney said:

 

The Basques had a "Goat God" and their ancestors were the Neolithic Farmers. 

Any relation to Pan?

Hera used to be a cow goddess.

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Any relation to Pan?

Hera used to be a cow goddess.

Basajaun. But the Crypto-Clowns turned him into a Bigfoot. There is a old thread around here somewhere where a Basque member put up some good stuff.