Let's talk history

[ShadowSot]

5 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

I don't have much experience with such tablets but been pleased to find I'm really enjoying it.

I really like the idea of tablets. 

 Back when I could read I hacked mine and changed the Screensaver to show a library in disorder with all the books knocked off the shelves. 

 Given how often I dropped it, it was appropriate. 

[Mello_]

ibn Battuta found city built of salt in Africa. Anyone knows any similar story?

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, Mello_ said:

ibn Battuta found city built of salt in Africa. Anyone knows any similar story?

Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries Mello

https://www.ancient.eu/article/1342/the-salt-trade-of-ancient-west-africa/

 

Quote

The 14th-century CE Muslim traveller Ibn Battuta, who visited West Africa c. 1352 CE, gives a lengthy description of life in the salt mine settlement of Taoudenni:

It is a village with no attractions. A strange thing about it is that its houses and mosques are built of blocks of salt and roofed with camel skins. There are no trees, only sand in which there is a salt mine. They dig the ground and thick slabs are found in it, lying on each other as if they had been cut and stacked under the ground. A camel carries two slabs. The only people living there are the slaves of the Massufa, who dig for the salt.

(quoted in de Villiers, 121-122)

 

[Mello_]

I wanted to ask do we have any analogy in history with it?  Do we know that some peeps used salt cubes as building material? 

[Hanslune]

https://www.academia.edu/295377/Slab_Stelae_of_the_Giza_Necropolis?email_work_card=thumbnail

Slab stelae of the Giza Necropolis

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Hanslune

[BorizBadinov]

What fascinates me about Egyptian carvers is that they could perfectly depict an animal hoof or bird in great detail and yet distort human features such as hands and feet. It seems there must have been some esthetic to that style since the statuary is often perfect in detail of human features. 

[Piney]

45 minutes ago, BorizBadinov said:

What fascinates me about Egyptian carvers is that they could perfectly depict an animal hoof or bird in great detail and yet distort human features such as hands and feet. It seems there must have been some esthetic to that style since the statuary is often perfect in detail of human features. 

Ideal of beauty. 

[jaylemurph]

2 hours ago, BorizBadinov said:

What fascinates me about Egyptian carvers is that they could perfectly depict an animal hoof or bird in great detail and yet distort human features such as hands and feet. It seems there must have been some esthetic to that style since the statuary is often perfect in detail of human features. 

Artistic convention, yes, but it’s also very hard to carve/paint hands. Nobody did it very well until the Renaissance. 
 

—Jaylemurph 

[BorizBadinov]

On 11/22/2019 at 10:55 AM, jaylemurph said:

Artistic convention, yes, but it’s also very hard to carve/paint hands. Nobody did it very well until the Renaissance. 
 

—Jaylemurph 

Looking at some more pictures I see you have a valid point. They probably figured the darn things will likely break off anyway so why bother. 

[kmt_sesh]

On 11/22/2019 at 8:55 AM, BorizBadinov said:

What fascinates me about Egyptian carvers is that they could perfectly depict an animal hoof or bird in great detail and yet distort human features such as hands and feet. It seems there must have been some esthetic to that style since the statuary is often perfect in detail of human features. 

It was indeed a stylistic convention. The figures depicted often represented real people, past or present. To show only one eye, arm, or other appendage would mean the person living in the afterlife would not have the use of that missing appendage. The end result was some pretty contorted bodily postures that look odd to us but were well understood by ancient Egyptians.

[danydandan]

6 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

It was indeed a stylistic convention. The figures depicted often represented real people, past or present. To show only one eye, arm, or other appendage would mean the person living in the afterlife would not have the use of that missing appendage. The end result was some pretty contorted bodily postures that look odd to us but were well understood by ancient Egyptians.

Glad to see you're back kmt. Warms the heart. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

5 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Glad to see you're back kmt. Warms the heart. 

JESUS CHRIST .... WHO GAVE YOU SOMEONE’S HEART AND WHY DID YOU PUT IT IN A FIRE!?!?

[danydandan]

2 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

JESUS CHRIST .... WHO GAVE YOU SOMEONE’S HEART AND WHY DID YOU PUT IT IN A FIRE!?!?

I know I'm often cited as The Saviour, I can assure you I am not. 

It was a lambs heart. We made stew with it yesterday. 

[Mello_]

How do we know that Sea peeps destroyed Hatuşa?

[Wistman]

8 hours ago, Mello_ said:

How do we know that Sea peeps destroyed Hatuşa?

Just conjecture, nobody knows for sure.  Stanley Wilkin of the University of London says:

Quote

I find it difficult to agree with the general view that the Sea Peoples destroyed Hattusa unless we change our understanding of this group, especially as Aramaic tribes were hovering around in northern Syria, apparently (if the Assyrians are to be believed) attacking everything that moved.

 

[kmt_sesh]

We really don't know to what  extent, if any, the Sea Peoples destroyed Hattsa, the capital of the Hittites. Eric Cline describes it well in his book on the Bronze Age collapse around 1177 BCE. Earlier historians probably exaggerated the influences and destructions attributed to the Sea Peoples. Hattusa's destruction could've been easily caused by Hatusa's tribal enemies just to the north, that took advantage of a drought-ridden and already weakened Hittite kingdom.

 

https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Civilization-Collapsed-Turning-ebook/dp/B013VPYYGQ/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=eric+cline+books&qid=1574628821&sr=8-1

[Kenemet]

On 11/22/2019 at 8:55 AM, BorizBadinov said:

What fascinates me about Egyptian carvers is that they could perfectly depict an animal hoof or bird in great detail and yet distort human features such as hands and feet. It seems there must have been some esthetic to that style since the statuary is often perfect in detail of human features. 

In fact there was an "official style" and people liked it.  The royal workshops would send around examples for other craftsmen to learn from and to use.  Everyone wanted something similar to what the king and the royals had.

[kmt_sesh]

21 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

In fact there was an "official style" and people liked it.  The royal workshops would send around examples for other craftsmen to learn from and to use.  Everyone wanted something similar to what the king and the royals had.

This why I've developed an affinity to monuments from the intermediate periods. The state had collapsed for one reason or another and there wasn't an official example to copy. I know a lot of the stelae and whatnot suffered in quality at these troubled times, but they also turned out some very charming and interesting monuments. 

[Orphalesion]

22 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

It was indeed a stylistic convention. The figures depicted often represented real people, past or present. To show only one eye, arm, or other appendage would mean the person living in the afterlife would not have the use of that missing appendage. The end result was some pretty contorted bodily postures that look odd to us but were well understood by ancient Egyptians.

Yes I read the same thing in lots of places and I don't doubt it. But what I'm wondering about it...why did they portray people's faces in profile then? Wouldn't that mean everybody in the afterlife loses half their head?

[Harte]

3 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

Yes I read the same thing in lots of places and I don't doubt it. But what I'm wondering about it...why did they portray people's faces in profile then? Wouldn't that mean everybody in the afterlife loses half their head?

Yes.

And a lot of ancient Egyptians were born with two right hands as well.

14 hours ago, Mello_ said:

How do we know that Sea peeps destroyed Hatuşa?

They left tell-tale scraps of seaweed.

Harte

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, Harte said:

Yes.

And a lot of ancient Egyptians were born with two right hands as well.

They left tell-tale scraps of seaweed.

Harte

Ah, it was the sea hoar frost like rime of salt that they left behind betraying their evil done!

From the, 'Four Sailors from Turin' a play written by Wilma Dullspeare a distant relative by marriage of Shakespeare.

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Hanslune

[Kenemet]

On 11/24/2019 at 5:14 PM, Orphalesion said:

Yes I read the same thing in lots of places and I don't doubt it. But what I'm wondering about it...why did they portray people's faces in profile then? Wouldn't that mean everybody in the afterlife loses half their head?

Nope.  Wall paintings weren't the only things they did... they also did statuary and had small models for the tombs (and toys and a lot of other things.)

It's like our modern conventions (cartoons and comics) where people are often drawn in "superhero proportions" (7 heads tall which in real life makes you look like you have a very tiny head) or with three fingers (like Mickey Mouse.)

[Orphalesion]

25 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Nope.  Wall paintings weren't the only things they did... they also did statuary and had small models for the tombs (and toys and a lot of other things.)

It's like our modern conventions (cartoons and comics) where people are often drawn in "superhero proportions" (7 heads tall which in real life makes you look like you have a very tiny head) or with three fingers (like Mickey Mouse.)

It's just remarkable that those conventions endured so many thousands of years in Egypt. I once read that one painting of musicians during the reign of Akhenaten (you know the one with the kneeling flutists) was the only time traditional Ancient Egyptian paintings depicted faces in a frontal rather than a profile view. Or at least the only surviving example. 

Edit: Pre-Hellenism, anyway.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Orphalesion

[Kenemet]

2 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

It's just remarkable that those conventions endured so many thousands of years in Egypt. I once read that one painting of musicians during the reign of Akhenaten (you know the one with the kneeling flutists) was the only time traditional Ancient Egyptian paintings depicted faces in a frontal rather than a profile view. Or at least the only surviving example. 

Social pressure and artistic conventions.

There are a few paintings with face-front images and there were two deities that were generally portrayed facing forward (Bes and Hathor).  So it's not that they couldn't, it's that they preferred not to.

Speaking as an artist, it's easier to get a profile right than it is to get a really good forward-facing likeness.

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Speaking as an artist, it's easier to get a profile right than it is to get a really good forward-facing likeness.

I'm the opposite. That's why the archaeological reconstructions on my former FB page show everybody facing forward.