Let's talk history

[Oniomancer]

2 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Cheers, but I'm subscribed to those. Was hoping for a more detailed write up. 

 

Thought as much after I reread your post after the fact, and I assume you have Stocks handy. Have you found a full version of the Blackwell abstract linked to in the second?

 

[ShadowSot]

8 hours ago, Oniomancer said:

Thought as much after I reread your post after the fact, and I assume you have Stocks handy. Have you found a full version of the Blackwell abstract linked to in the second?

 

No I have not. 

[Hanslune]

News report

https://www.science.org/content/article/lush-wetlands-lured-waves-early-humans-out-africa-stone-tools-suggest?utm_campaign=news_daily_2021-09-01&et_rid=389449532&et_cid=3905110&

Paper

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03863-y

 

Quote

Multiple hominin dispersals into Southwest Asia over the past 400,000 years

Quote

Today, the sparsely populated Nefud is filled with wind-whipped sand dunes and spindly, drought-tolerant shrubs. But past excavations and paleoclimate models have revealed that over the past half-million years, brief periods of wetter, warmer conditions dumped seasonal rainfall over the region, turning its low basins into lakes and its ditches into rivers. In short order, the harsh desert became a lush grassland—a “green Arabia”—only to wither back to sand when arid weather inevitably returned.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Hanslune

[Hanslune]

A guide from Keith Hamilton - aka 'Waggy'. an older one from 2018 on the mastabat el-fara'un ( Mastabat al-Fir’aun) or tomb of Shepseskaf the last pharaoh of the 4th dynasty

https://www.academia.edu/35747387/The_Mastabat_el_Faraun_A_laymans_guide?email_work_card=view-paper

Another view

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/history/old-kingdom/4th-dynasty/shepseskaf/tomb-of-shepseskaf.html

Edited September 7, 2021 by Hanslune

[ShadowSot]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-97778-3

 

 Pretty fantastic claim, of a bronze age site destroyed by an airblast. 

[Wepwawet]

The Chelyabinsk event shows that this can be a thing. That one was in the end just a spectacular near miss, but if the entry angle was a little different, another story. It's interesting that the proposed time period for this event in Jordan puts it around the time of the Thera eruption and the collapse of the Middle Kingdom and arrival of the Hyksos. Not exactly, but none of these events can be pinned down to an exact date.

[ShadowSot]

https://www.nps.gov/whsa/learn/news/092321nr.htm

Fossilized human footprints in White Sands National Park dated to 23,000 years. 

[ShadowSot]

[Hanslune]

Another Mr Waggy's Keith Hamilton's excellent guides

https://www.academia.edu/59038801/Khafres_Temples_Giza_Part_III_The_Valley_Temple_A_Laymans_Guide

Quote

We are looking at the southeast corner of Khafre‟s valley temple, with Khafre‟s pyramid in the background. Once clad in fine granite; today, we only have an intact lower course attached to the temples eastern facade. In the left foreground we can see the remains of a sizeable enclosure wall which once flanked the temple. From the exterior viewpoint, the temple appears an austere cube made of local limestone blocks, many of which are in excess of 100 tonnes; these blocks, are the sandwich filling which was cased in finer stone such as granite and alabaster. Though the outside of the temple lacks a bit of kerb appeal, it is the relatively well preserved interior of the temple which largely steals the show

[Thanos5150]

Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

[ShadowSot]

2 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021

Its good information but man these way they've been presenting this has bugged me 

[jethrofloyd]

A nice BBC article about Göbekli Tepe          16th August 2021

 

An immense mystery older than Stonehenge

Reshaping previous ideas on the story of civilisation, Gobekli Tepe in Turkey was built by a prehistoric people 6,000 years before Stonehenge.

When German archaeologist Klaus Schmidt first began excavating on a Turkish mountaintop 25 years ago, he was convinced the buildings he uncovered were unusual, even unique.

Atop a limestone plateau near Urfa called Gobekli Tepe, Turkish for "Belly Hill", Schmidt discovered more than 20 circular stone enclosures. The largest was 20m across, a circle of stone with two elaborately carved pillars 5.5m tall at its centre.

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20210815-an-immense-mystery-older-than-stonehenge

 

 

[Thanos5150]

8 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Its good information but man these way they've been presenting this has bugged me 

How so?

[Hanslune]

10 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Its good information but man these way they've been presenting this has bugged me 

Why is that ShadowSot? The wrong font or something more fundamental?

Or that this information (about the Norse being in NA) being presented as a 'new' discovery instead of a 'narrowing' of the time frame?

[Thanos5150]

3 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

Or that this information (about the Norse being in NA) being presented as a 'new' discovery instead of a 'narrowing' of the time frame?

? It does not present itself as a "new discovery" whose very stated purpose is the very "narrowing of the time frame".  

Quote

Physical evidence for early European presence in the Americas can be found in Newfoundland, Canada^1,2. However, it has thus far not been possible to determine when this activity took place^3,4,5. Here we provide evidence that the Vikings were present in Newfoundland in AD 1021. We overcome the imprecision of previous age estimates by making use of the cosmic-ray-induced upsurge in atmospheric radiocarbon concentrations in AD 993 (ref. ⁶).

 

[Tatetopa]

The solar flare incident traced to 993 was a fascinating bit of news to me.   I had missed that before.  

Papers get written, peer reviewed , and published, and sometimes popularized.  For a scientist, I imagine being in the public eye will also mean having a discovery sexed-up or distorted.   Thanks to all of you professionals out there who are willing to put up with that and make this dumb engineer's life more fascinating.  

[ShadowSot]

3 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

How so?

Look at the title of the article you posted. It's presented as though this is shocking new information instead of just getting a precise date of the site. 

 It is still interesting, but most of the responses I've been seeing are, as you might expect, dismissing it as something we already knew. 

 Eh? Norse in the Americas? Wasn't that already known? 

[Hanslune]

2 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

 Eh? Norse in the Americas? Wasn't that already known? 

Very much so. Been to the site and I can verify its was: the Norse in the Atlantic with a knarr. I mean it's cool that someone got the date closer but dang we've known the Norse were here since the mid 60's. In 1957 if the Norse Penny had been better handled.

[Hanslune]

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/paleontologists-are-trying-to-understand-why-the-fossil-record-is-mostly-males?utm_source=pocket-newtab

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Paleontologists Are Trying to Understand Why the Fossil Record Is Mostly Males

One theory is that reckless young bison and mammoths got into more trouble.

[Thanos5150]

8 hours ago, ShadowSot said:

Look at the title of the article you posted. It's presented as though this is shocking new information instead of just getting a precise date of the site. 

I did not read it that way. Seemed pretty straight forward to me: "Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021". Not seeing the "shocking" or "new" part. 

[Wepwawet]

Step aside Gobekli Tepe, for here is 12,000 year old Boncuklu Tarla. A "temple", civic structures and houses, copper and 130 skeletons. I think quite a few peeps keep an eye on Sibson's channel these days now that he has cast aside his woo begininings, so I suspect that those who like to keep up to date have already seen this video, but worth giving a heads up as I'm sure we will be talking about this place for some time to come. There are two things I would specifically like to see come out of this, first good confirmation that this site is actually 12,000 years old, and secondly an attempt to get usable DNA samples. Looking at the latest DNA results from Egypt, and a hint of what may be to come from a soon to be released report, This area is a nexus point were various strands of DNA center upon, it is, for example, just about right in the middle of the area judged to be where Yuya's distant ancestors came from.

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Wepwawet
typo

[ShadowSot]

20 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

I did not read it that way. Seemed pretty straight forward to me: "Evidence for European presence in the Americas in AD 1021". Not seeing the "shocking" or "new" part. 

Most people read it as if there wasn't evidence of European prescense in the Americas. When really this is just confirming the dating of a known site. 

[ShadowSot]

1 hour ago, Wepwawet said:

Step aside Gobekli Tepe, for here is 12,000 year old Boncuklu Tarla. A "temple", civic structures and houses, copper and 130 skeletons. I think quite a few peeps keep an eye on Sibson's channel these days now that he has cast aside his woo begininings, so I suspect that those who like to keep up to date have already seen this video, but worth giving a heads up as I'm sure we will be talking about this place for some time to come. There are two things I would specifically like to see come out of this, first good confirmation that this site is actually 12,000 years old, and secondly an attempt to get usable DNA samples. Looking at the latest DNA results from Egypt, and a hint of what may be to come from a soon to be released report, This area is a nexus point were various strands of DNA center upon, it is, for example, just about right in the middle of the area judged to be where Yuya's distant ancestors came from.

 

OS there any new information? The same press release has been passed around a lot but it's been scant on details. 

[Trelane]

2 hours ago, Wepwawet said:

Step aside Gobekli Tepe, for here is 12,000 year old Boncuklu Tarla. A "temple", civic structures and houses, copper and 130 skeletons. I think quite a few peeps keep an eye on Sibson's channel these days now that he has cast aside his woo begininings, so I suspect that those who like to keep up to date have already seen this video, but worth giving a heads up as I'm sure we will be talking about this place for some time to come. There are two things I would specifically like to see come out of this, first good confirmation that this site is actually 12,000 years old, and secondly an attempt to get usable DNA samples. Looking at the latest DNA results from Egypt, and a hint of what may be to come from a soon to be released report, This area is a nexus point were various strands of DNA center upon, it is, for example, just about right in the middle of the area judged to be where Yuya's distant ancestors came from.

 

Very interesting (at least to me) to see how many ancient sites are being discovered in this region. Any word on potential dating of Karahan Tepe? 

[Hanslune]

51 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

OS there any new information? The same press release has been passed around a lot but it's been scant on details. 

The team is French and Turkish I believe and most of what I have seen is in those languages. I'll take a look see if anything has shown up in English. The translators programs only do a so-so job especially with Archy jargon

Quote

The paper reviews and evaluates the published evidence produced by the archeologists of Boncuklu Tarla regarding the dating of the site. It also addresses a number of issues associated with carbon-14 dating of Neolithic sites’ structures, including Gobekli Tepe and Nevali Cori in addition to Boncuklu Tarla. Furthermore, the paper recommends a rigorous, streamlined, and transparent set of procedures to be established before an archeological team proposes dates (and especially carbon-14 based dates) on the structures of Neolithic monuments and their sites.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351607065_CARBON_14_EVIDENCE_AND_NEOLITHIC_SITES_Dating_the_Architectures_of_Boncuklu_Tarla_and_Gobekli_Tepe

 

Quote

Note on date inflation

This short Note deals with a huge subject, requiring further research, analysis, and retrospection

in the field of Archeology. It concerns an apparent (and natural) effort, by archeologists and the

funding agencies involved (usually a host of government authorities or quasi-public entities), to

push back the dates of archeological sites, especially Neolithic sites, and often to a considerable

degree. Date inflation is an issue that needs some serious and extended study and analysis.

The reasons behind date inflation in Archeology are complex, and multiple. They are not to be

addressed at present in any detail, although some of them are quite obvious, like for example

efforts and attempts by governments to boost tourism; while others are more ideology based,

and thus less obvious. Possible conflicts of interest in the process of dating Neolithic (and other)

sites, artifacts, and structures are ubiquitous, and instances where they could arise are plentiful.

Numerous government agencies are involved, at all levels, from the very local to the international

(including UNESCO); hence and inevitably, politics are entangled with archeological work and

findings. A lot of resources are at stake, and especially, a lot of ideological stock is waged on the

outcome of these, mostly carbon-14 based, dating procedures. Thus transparency is paramount.

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Hanslune