cern Posted March 15, 2017 #76 Share Posted March 15, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, back to earth said: HUH ? Stonehenge is a tower of silence ? ! Is that what someone is claiming ? He must be an Indian Parsee in the Indian Nationalist Party Advocating Zoroastrian Out Of India theory all the way to Orkney ? google mike parker pearson, josh and cali dave.... all about exposure vit all dem axes on da schtonz didn't they conclude its indo-europeans? so why not exposure? zoroastrian is persian, ganj dareh even. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/worlds-first-farmers-were-surprisingly-diverse. it was one of these ganj derah folks that shares ydna with the mother goddess worshipers from willendorf cz ultimately what it would show is that yima lived somewhere between london and tehran surprise surprise. where is the middle. i think that vara on orkney in the picture above is extra indicative. wink peace Edited March 15, 2017 by cern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #77 Share Posted March 16, 2017 13 hours ago, Totah Dine said: This is a fallacy. Most people don't know this but the Apache and Navajo are actually different bands of the same tribe. We can converse with each other and understand each other. There are some words and phrases that are a bit different. Each band tends to borrow language from the other tribes around them and incorporate them into their particular dialect. I have had conversations with White Mountain and Jicarilla Apache on several occasions. I had to concentrate but it's pretty much the same language. I know this won't matter to you much but we're not Indians. People from India are Indians. We are not from India. Speaking for myself calling me an "Indian" is quite offensive. Right up there with "Redskin". Just sayin' I've also heard stories of captive Navajos during WWII were questioned by the Japanese and were thought to be of Japanese descent. There are some words that seem similar but that happens in any language. There's a word in Japanese, Nandesuka that is similar to a Navajo word nandeskaadi which means tortilla. The Navajo and Apache are Athabaskan and our language is an athabaskan derivative. We came from the North. Something bad happened because to this day North is the direction of spirits or evil. When a relative dies in a home it's customary to break out the north wall and then the house is abandoned. It's considered a ghost house from that point on. It's considered a bad omen if a coyote crosses your path going North. North is bad. I think my ancestors fled Western Canada due to a natural disaster or encroaching tribes that threatened to wipe them out. There is a hypothetical relation to Siberia ( Dené–Yeniseian) and Athabaskan languages but not intelligible enough to converse. Tartar is a Turkic language and has no relationship to Dené–Yeniseian or Athabaskan dialects. Personally I think the gentleman in question heard the Apaches gossiping among themselves and decided it sounded "Chinese". Then made up the rest. The fact he said Tartar should be evidence enough of his ignorance regarding linguistics. Thanks ... as i said I am no linguist . But with the local (main area ) indigenous people's (and they like to be called ' Koori / s ' ) similar dynamics that you outline seem to be in play. The paper I saw comparing Indonesian , I thought mush as you outlined - similarities . ... besides, the whole thing seemed nearly like a discrediting of local indigenous and pushed their arrival foreward many thousands of years ( IF it was correct ) , Intersting what you said about the north . It reminds me of a GREAT film I saw ( Pacific islander film ) 'The Man That Went South' . I mean, I thought it was great ; no shootem up bang bang car chases ... simple island life, a man on his journey of self discovery, lots of walking, paddling, hunting, not much dialogue and a fantastic meeting of 'strangers' from the north , the east and the west ) . Great stuff .... and a very interesting comment on human nature ! ; " Dont go east , those men are parrot ****ers ! " " But the easterners told me not to west because you are turtle ****ers ." "What ?! We dont do that , the liars ! " " But you say they **** parrots. " 'Ahh yes but they do do that ! " (The only difference I could detect was that the eastern dress - a type of pounded bark cloth material / sarong - had squares block printed on it and the western one the squares were overlaid on each other . One man ' Whats wrong with your Masi ( bark cloth sarong ) " - gives him a strange look - . ) Could the 'bad' north direction relate to seasons ? Ps. MWoo is a young lady . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #78 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Totah Dine said: Personally I feel anyone born here is native American. I prefer First Nation. It just seems more equitable all around. And as I understand it 'America' is a pretty big place ... not just the USA ( I always wonder why people from USA have no national name for themselves without appropriating the one that covers 2 continents and many many other countries ? ) . ' Fist Nation' sounds 'nice and political' ...... maybe some of the indigenous here could adopt that It has become rather an issue here ... We got peeps white as a ghost going around saying 'I am Aboriginal' ..... legally it was supposed to be 1/8 ancestory / acceptance & acknowledgement ... all very confusing . A recent developing trend sounds better IMO ; eg; ' I am Bundjalung " or " I am Gunbayngirr " , etc . and " I am of Bundjalung descent ." EDIT: FIRST nation I meant .... but I will let the above stand as it is Edited March 16, 2017 by back to earth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #79 Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 hours ago, jaylemurph said: I am. But fortunately for me, Totah Dine has already explained this is great detail. The only person claiming modern Chinese and any First Nation languages are similar is someone with a book/website/fringe doodad to sell you, probably for $19.95. --Jaylemurph Who am I to say yes or no on such a subject ... I was waiting for someone linguist and / or with 'authority' . MWOO did say :" ...and you be lucky to be left standing if they hear you say that . " Lets consider that she got off lightly . .... and I dont think he is selling books. Lets just give her whats she used to ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #80 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: Pearl shell trade routes? And here I thought it was your secret maps to all of the best party spots Down Under. In a way it is . ( modern 'dance party' goes all night .... p f f f t ! .... these guys can go for 3 days straight ! ) But that isnt the secret map ...... here is the 'secret map' ; Shhhhhhhhhh Edited March 16, 2017 by back to earth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #81 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: Pearl shell trade routes? And here I thought it was your secret maps to all of the best party spots Down Under. And Dude ! That aint no outback whitefellah party car ! You might need Or "if you blackfellah " ; ( often the 2nd type has to rescue the 1st type ) Edited March 16, 2017 by back to earth 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted March 16, 2017 Author #82 Share Posted March 16, 2017 37 minutes ago, back to earth said: And as I understand it 'America' is a pretty big place ... not just the USA ( I always wonder why people from USA have no national name for themselves without appropriating the one that covers 2 continents and many many other countries ? ) . ... "Americans" just has a nice, easy ring to it. Nothing else really works. United Statesians? United Staters? No, that sounds like a soccer (football) team. Mexico lends itself well to Mexicans, and Cuba to Cubans, and Guatemala to Guatemalans, and Canada to Canadians, and United States to...Americans. Although I think a lot of Brits still think of us as Colonials, but that's so eighteenth century. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #83 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, cern said: google mike parker pearson, josh and cali dave.... all about exposure vit all dem axes on da schtonz didn't they conclude its indo-europeans? so why not exposure? zoroastrian is persian, ganj dareh even. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/worlds-first-farmers-were-surprisingly-diverse. it was one of these ganj derah folks that shares ydna with the mother goddess worshipers from willendorf cz ultimately what it would show is that yima lived somewhere between london and tehran surprise surprise. where is the middle. i think that vara on orkney in the picture above is extra indicative. wink peace Oooooo no ... the 'vara' was specifically designed for colder climates and .... ohhh ..... actually , its still there ! ( thats the thing about archaeology ) ~ Yima ? 'Man' or stage in development ? As far as 'Aryan' (proper) origins go, I like the big melting pot from the western foothills of the Pamirs * around the upper Oxus Basin around to the Kara - kum desert and NE Iran. But , what did the 'air burial peoples' do in the desert with no mountain tops ? Zoroastrian tower of silence in Karakum desert Uzbekistan ..... Now that's a tower of silence ! ( I got a distribution map of them and the 'platforms for worship' - interesting . ) * Ahhhh what the heck, I chuck this in as well ; Edited March 16, 2017 by back to earth Resized photo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #84 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Oh yeah .... Zoroastrian isnt 'Persian' .... they were around (supposedly) way before there were any Persians ... or even ' Parsa ' . If anything they were (or he was ) an Afghan ..... or a Bactrian ... or (how far back we gonna go ? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cern Posted March 16, 2017 #85 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, back to earth said: Oh yeah .... Zoroastrian isnt 'Persian' .... they were around (supposedly) way before there were any Persians ... or even ' Parsa ' . If anything they were (or he was ) an Afghan ..... or a Bactrian ... or (how far back we gonna go ? ) https://sussingstonehenge.wordpress.com/tag/excarnation/ for the birds. i love the internet. it makes me raff. mike parker pearson and excarnation. yima... 7th menu [manu] yes. what date? 5000 years before troy plus 33 generations before that. puts him anywhere geographically as long as he was near a melting glacier. the real vara would of course still exist and be perfectly preserved. scientists might call it something silly like the garden of eden etc however. silly scientists. peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #86 Share Posted March 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said: "Americans" just has a nice, easy ring to it. Nothing else really works. United Statesians? United Staters? No, that sounds like a soccer (football) team. Mexico lends itself well to Mexicans, and Cuba to Cubans, and Guatemala to Guatemalans, and Canada to Canadians, and United States to...Americans. Although I think a lot of Brits still think of us as Colonials, but that's so eighteenth century. No ... sorry ... I accuse you of not having a name and cultural mass appropriation ! Anyway , your new Pres might fix that ..... I hear he is going to re name the country after he fixes up your old constitution ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted March 16, 2017 Author #87 Share Posted March 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, back to earth said: Oh yeah .... Zoroastrian isnt 'Persian' .... they were around (supposedly) way before there were any Persians ... or even ' Parsa ' . If anything they were (or he was ) an Afghan ..... or a Bactrian ... or (how far back we gonna go ? ) I am not well versed on the particulars of Zoroastrianism, but I recall reading that based on supposed linguistic evidence the earliest for Zoroaster would be around 1500 BCE, although 1000 BCE seems more agreed (from what i recall). The latest would probably be around the seventh century BCE. A lot of these dates come from the writings of Greeks from late antiquity, so that calls into question their veracity. Other Greek sources place Zoroaster at around 6000 BCE, which of course I wouldn't take seriously. I do recall, however, that he is thought to have come from ancient Iran. This is all off the top of my shiny head, so some fact-checking might be called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted March 16, 2017 Author #88 Share Posted March 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, back to earth said: No ... sorry ... I accuse you of not having a name and cultural mass appropriation ! Anyway , your new Pres might fix that ..... I hear he is going to re name the country after he fixes up your old constitution ? Yes, that's right, I forgot. We are now to call ourselves Trumpites. Alternatively it's permissible to use the term "Supplicants of the Orange Demigod." Just the same, a more popular term is now "Acolytes of the Angry Orange Toddler." And in crafting this satire, I hope I'm not starting a political discussion here. I stay away from that section of UM for a reason! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #89 Share Posted March 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, cern said: https://sussingstonehenge.wordpress.com/tag/excarnation/ for the birds. i love the internet. it makes me raff. mike parker pearson and excarnation. Good Mazda ! WTF ... that goes against SO many Zoroastrian and pre vedic / Zoroastrian religions precepts ..... ! May as well did what they did in the Thames and just throw the bodies in a river ... any Zoroastrian that did that could well be thrown live into a tower of silence ! A lovely way to go Spoiler 12 minutes ago, cern said: yima... 7th menu [manu] yes. what date? 5000 years before troy plus 33 generations before that. puts him anywhere geographically as long as he was near a melting glacier. the real vara would of course still exist and be perfectly preserved. scientists might call it something silly like the garden of eden etc however. silly scientists. peace You mean Para diz .... Airyana Vaeja ..... how about a melting glacier all around ... like in the steep Pamir Valleys (which 'just happen' to have the main north 'Silk Route' Path through to Kalmarkin Desert ( and another more southern 'short cut ' without having to go near 'Turan' ( later : 'Sughda' , then Sugd and eventually - to the Greeks, Sogdiana) ... damn Turkics backstabbers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #90 Share Posted March 16, 2017 27 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said: I am not well versed on the particulars of Zoroastrianism, but I recall reading that based on supposed linguistic evidence the earliest for Zoroaster would be around 1500 BCE, although 1000 BCE seems more agreed (from what i recall). The latest would probably be around the seventh century BCE. A lot of these dates come from the writings of Greeks from late antiquity, so that calls into question their veracity. Other Greek sources place Zoroaster at around 6000 BCE, which of course I wouldn't take seriously. I do recall, however, that he is thought to have come from ancient Iran. This is all off the top of my shiny head, so some fact-checking might be called for. Hard to check facts as it is pre history , the first historical account seems to be about the 'Pars' emerging from the Zargos into mesopotamia ( and for some reasons, the ' Aria peoples' never did that before, nor visa versa ) . They got pushed into the Medes ( I think, formed alliances and eventually we had Persians taking over the area. Earlier sources are heroic epics, myth and scripture ; particularly Vendidad, Shahnameh , etc . Confused dates may have come about due to Zoroaster actually being a reformer of an already established 'Zoroaster-like' Aryan religion instead of an originator. Zoroaster, as far as I know was always tagged as from near present Afghanistan , not Iran. It seems their ' capitol ' (homeland , origin, whatever it was ...... translates as 'first nation' .... but 'nation ' ???? ) was further to the east. Then it moved west into the southern Kara-kum ( Turan was supposedly the first 'country' to receive him and his message and thats pretty much directly north, top silk road east gate / Samarkand area ) . The first king to accept was Vistasp ( ? sic .... sorry , I going off the top of my fuzzy head here ) and said to be in the area of Bactria. Then the centre for the Arians moved further west into ' Iran' . East of Iran, there has been a lot going on there for a long time and we know little about it ; modelled. cm Namazga (V). millennium BC Excavations by V.M. Masson, Southern Turkmenia, Altyn-Depe Settlement Central Asia State Hermitage Museum ” http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/ancient-towns-excavated-turkmenistan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cern Posted March 16, 2017 #91 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, back to earth said: You mean Para diz .... Airyana Vaeja ..... how about a melting glacier all around ... like in the steep Pamir Valleys (which 'just happen' to have the main north 'Silk Route' Path through to Kalmarkin Desert ( and another more southern 'short cut ' without having to go near 'Turan' ( later : 'Sughda' , then Sugd and eventually - to the Greeks, Sogdiana) ... damn Turkics backstabbers ! yes the pari-dhi in paridhi-stha. vourukasa was a big freshwater sea. its flooding destroyed humanity right. all you have to do is find a huge vara built around 7500bc. should be easy since it was designed to survive the destruction of humanity. peace Edited March 16, 2017 by cern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #92 Share Posted March 16, 2017 errrmmm ... designed to survive a 'cold period' in the climate maybe ? Not sure they did the job ... as they had move 'down hill' and to the west . I postulate a 'cold snap', a big freeze and drying , then a warming, melts and some resultant flooding (in the target area ) ... Take your pick ; 7,000 - 3,000 BC Holocene climatic optimum, or Atlantic in northern Europe (B-S) 6,200 BC 8.2 kiloyear event cold 3,900 BC 5.9 kiloyear event dry and cold, ends Neolithic Subpluvial in North Africa, expands Sahara Desert 3,200 - 2,900 Piora Oscillation, cold, perhaps not global. Wetter in Europe, drier elsewhere, linked to the domestication of the horse in Central Asia. ! 2,200 BC 4.2 kiloyear event dry, lasted most of the 22nd century BC, linked to the end of the Old Kingdom in Egypt, and the Akkadian Empire in Mesopotamia, various archaeological cultures in Persia and China 1800-1500 BC Middle Bronze Age Cold Epoch, a period of unusually cold climate in the North Atlantic region Bond Event 2 - possibly triggering the Late Bronze Age collapse 900 - 300 BC Iron Age Cold Epoch cold in North Atlantic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #93 Share Posted March 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, cern said: yes the pari-dhi in paridhi-stha. vourukasa was a big freshwater sea. its flooding destroyed humanity right. all you have to do is find a huge vara built around 7500bc. should be easy since it was designed to survive the destruction of humanity. peace Translation query ; 'Fresh' water , or 'sweet' water ? . The Persian Gulf was known in Sassanian times to be sweet water , due to tidal flush and winds clearing its surface . If you can show me a pic from the Bundahishn or something and correlate it to a landform map (like I did for the Buddhist tanka and Airyana Vaeja ) we might get less 'mythological' . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cern Posted March 16, 2017 #94 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, back to earth said: errrmmm ... designed to survive a 'cold period' in the climate maybe ? Not sure they did the job ... as they had move 'down hill' and to the west . I postulate a 'cold snap', a big freeze and drying , then a warming, melts and some resultant flooding (in the target area ) ... Take your pick ; 7,000 - 3,000 BC Holocene climatic optimum, or Atlantic in northern Europe (B-S) 6,200 BC 8.2 kiloyear event cold 3,900 BC 5.9 kiloyear event dry and cold, ends Neolithic Subpluvial in North Africa, expands Sahara Desert 3,200 - 2,900 Piora Oscillation, cold, perhaps not global. Wetter in Europe, drier elsewhere, linked to the domestication of the horse in Central Asia. ! 2,200 BC 4.2 kiloyear event dry, lasted most of the 22nd century BC, linked to the end of the Old Kingdom in Egypt, and the Akkadian Empire in Mesopotamia, various archaeological cultures in Persia and China 1800-1500 BC Middle Bronze Age Cold Epoch, a period of unusually cold climate in the North Atlantic region Bond Event 2 - possibly triggering the Late Bronze Age collapse 900 - 300 BC Iron Age Cold Epoch cold in North Atlantic my pick would be to start somewhere around 10000 bc. where was there biblical damage. from willendorf to tehran for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #95 Share Posted March 16, 2017 ... and again , a vara is supposed to be 'in ground' and protection from very cold winters .... not a ' Noah's ark ' against flooding . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cern Posted March 16, 2017 #96 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, back to earth said: ... and again , a vara is supposed to be 'in ground' and protection from very cold winters .... not a ' Noah's ark ' against flooding . if you want to get right into it and give everyone their say then noah used the wood from the first in ground "ark" to build his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #97 Share Posted March 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, cern said: my pick would be to start somewhere around 10000 bc. where was there biblical damage. from willendorf to tehran for sure You dont see a link with horse domestication and Andronova and related cultures ? Younger dryas have been postulated , but IMO too early . Then it seems to be warming up to Piora Oscillation , cold and horse domestication . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted March 16, 2017 #98 Share Posted March 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, cern said: if you want to get right into it and give everyone their say then noah used the wood from the first in ground "ark" to build his. Ha! Noah was invented by some released Jews that concocted a political story to take home to whip pagan **** in line. The 'one God' idea, and the survival stories, ark/vara , floods is a patch up concoction .... or was there some massive flood tale ..... hmmmmm .... maybe 'Mesopotamian' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cern Posted March 16, 2017 #99 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, back to earth said: You dont see a link with horse domestication and Andronova and related cultures ? Younger dryas have been postulated , but IMO too early . Then it seems to be warming up to Piora Oscillation , cold and horse domestication . yima built the first circular vara in a time when he was having problems with lots of cows and with fire. he kept digging a bigger water break for the fire and cows until finally one was wide enough... just in time for the freeze and flood that would destroy it. he built his inground rectangular vara to survive. yes i see a horse race track around trypillian "cities". but if i was looking for yima and the homeland of the indo-europeans i would look for the perfect place for an ambitious ancient man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cern Posted March 16, 2017 #100 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, back to earth said: .... or was there some massive flood tale ..... hmmmmm .... maybe 'Mesopotamian' ? harali where was the freshwater sea abzu and its rectangular abzu enclosure, was a far off place to the west. it was the underworld but before its catastrophe it was paradise this is the place that survived the destruction of humanity. Edited March 16, 2017 by cern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now