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Westminster Terror attack, shootings


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9 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The difference here merc is that the people supporting these attacks, forgetting the fact that we're actually at war with many of their brethren and have been killing their civilians in far greater numbers for far longer, are individuals and Islamic fundamentalist organisations.

We are at war with ISIS in Iraq and Al Qaida in Afghanistan.   Syria is in the middle of a civil war and we are trying to destroy ISIS which has infiltrated the war because we stayed out of it.   The rest of the Muslim world is at peace with us.   We should NOT have gone back into Iraq, that was a mistake but neither should we have pulled completely out thereby leaving a vacuum.   Now, if you are saying that every terrorist attack is because of the above then I can't wait to read your reasoning. 

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In other words they are entirely not representative of Islam or Muslims.

 I am not sure what you are saying here so will wait for you to clarify.

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On the other hand, those who condemn the attacks are massive institutions and completely representative of Islam and Muslims. You can't hold the whole system responsible for a tiny minority of cheering keyboard warriors. And if you don't believe it's a minority then that's down to nothing more than your own perception of the situation and is certainly not able to be demonstrated as true.

Massive institutions?   Well, size is in the eyes of the beholder but many of these organizations you are so in awe of condemn with one hand while supporting the radicalized side with the other (see CAIR). 

9 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You seem to believe that all Muslims have a duty to hit Twitter to condemn the acts of a tiny number of nutjobs. They don't. At all.

Oh come on now!!!  I know you like to paint your foes with a dirty brush but this is absolutely ridiculous!  When did I ever allude to much less say this?   The fact is that millions of the billion or so Muslims absolutely do cheer these acts and denying it is childish. 

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The same as I don't have a duty to apologise for all white racists because I'm white, all Christians don't have a duty to apologise for or condemn the IRA or abortion clinic bombers, or any number of similar situations. Surely you can see that? By requiring them to do so you are essentially holding them in some way responsible. Which is ridiculous.

 

 

No where in any of my posts have I asked anyone to apologize so why are you bringing it up to me as if I had?   You have to stop making up my side of the debate because I am getting sick of correcting you.  

Your response ignored nearly everything I wrote and, to make matters worse, you made up two things I never said and then chastised me for them.  Why?  Are you afraid to answer the hard questions and so overwhelmed with a need to appear superior that you invent things to act sanctimonious over?   I won't let you get away with it, even if others do, so you best knock it off and either ignore me or answer directly.

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The Al Qaeda magazine "Inspire" was downloaded 55,000 times by UK based computers in a span of 3 months. The magazine (which targeted Charlie Hebdo in 2013,) calls on readers to commit lone wolf attacks against the UK and includes detailed instructions on various attacks.

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According to reports, between 14 October to 12 January, 54,723 people using a British IP address downloaded an edition of Inspire magazine, the vast majority of which was the spring edition which told readers how to make a car bomb.

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After the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris, Police conducted mass raids on Mosques in France, 150(!) Mosques were closed for preaching radicalized versions of Islam.

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France, which declared a state of emergency after the Islamist attacks on Paris, has so far raided 2,235 homes and buildings, taken 232 people into custody and confiscated 334 weapons, 34 of them war-grade, Cazeneuve told reporters.

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Another 20 Mosques were closed late last year in France for preaching radicalized Islam.

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There is absolutely a war happening right under our noses. Training, weapons supplies and lots of hate preaching just down the street. Not to mention plenty of willing "soldiers" hiding in plain sight. This isn't more "anti-Muslim" propaganda, this is reality. The sooner we accept it, the sooner we can treat it.
 

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In addition, a Facebook post by a prison officer in the UK relates how, “Yesterday we had Muslims on the unit high fiving and cheering the news of the attacks,” and how the officer nearly lost his job for complaining about it.

I would be interested to know just how many unique "keyboard warriors" were involved in the Twitter streams but I'm not holding my breath waiting for those numbers.

Even if only 1% of ALL Muslims are radicals, we're talking about 16,000,000 martyrs ready to die in the fight against the West. Let's pray the numbers are much lower.

 

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21 hours ago, Setton said:

No, it isn't. It's saying that terror will not work. We won't be afraid and we won't let terrorism change who we are or how we act. Which is their goal. Play into their hands if you want, we won't.

Dude, you already lost your right to "be British".

Shopkeeper forced to remove British flags after cries of "racism"

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The 54-year-old said he had been left shocked by the backlash he has received, which included members of the public coming into the store in north London's Muswell Hill, telling him he was racist or complaining on social media.

The backlash was so intense that he was forced to take down his Union Jack flags on the shop's opening day.

There aren't enough hours in the day to cover all the stories of British culture being crushed under political correctness. The days of the polite tea-drinking Brit are long behind you. You don't have to defend your nation's identity from terrorism - it's already been dismantled from within.

Edit to add--

The irony in the story above is the man opened a shop specifically to sell "British things". (Think British souvenirs). He was hoping to sell things made in England to the people of England.

Edited by Dark_Grey
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6 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Dude, you already lost your right to "be British".

Shopkeeper forced to remove British flags after cries of "racism"

There aren't enough hours in the day to cover all the stories of British culture being crushed under political correctness. The days of the polite tea-drinking Brit are long behind you. You don't have to defend your nation's identity from terrorism - it's already been dismantled from within.

Remember the Cologne rapes and the German governments reaction? They told women to walk in pairs and to 'cover up' to avoid being raped. That was their response. They can't see that it's the beginning of installing Sharia law in their own damn country...and they're just too stupid (PC) to see it.

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16 minutes ago, Sweetpumper said:

Remember the Cologne rapes and the German governments reaction? They told women to walk in pairs and to 'cover up' to avoid being raped. That was their response. They can't see that it's the beginning of installing Sharia law in their own damn country...and they're just too stupid (PC) to see it.

I avoid talking or even thinking about Germany/Sweden lately. It makes me feel ill. All of it was preventable.

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6 hours ago, Merc14 said:

When someone blows a crowd of people up or drives his car into a group and then gets out and stabs as many as he can, is it necessary to understand his motivations before condemning the act? 

 

Of course you condemn the act.

However it is very important to understand the motives.

Your point about the media. As someone who has had to deal with some fairly awful stuff I know 100%that informing the General public of every detail is a bad idea. Everyone has a different point of view and it can cause major headaches, waistes time and detracts focus. Call it PC if you want the Police dont have time to think about your opinion, they are dealing with the actual hard stuff.

And as far as my idea for a solution at least it was a peaceful solution and not just rhetoric.

How would you fix it peacefully? 

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On 23/03/2017 at 8:25 PM, ExpandMyMind said:

You are writing as though Islam is unique in this. The bible also calls for killing people, stoning them to death etc for entirely trivial matters.

My point is that it's not considered 'not practicing the religion correctly' to refuse to blindly follow obvious barbarism. The average Muslim is no better or worse than the average christian or atheist. To suggest or imply otherwise is dishonest.

P.S. Bartlet for President.

It is unique, and you're just show your lack of knowledge on the subject, the bibles written by men supposedly inspired by god but still written by men with all the failings of humankind the Quran is a book of instructions on how to live your life sent word for word directly from god, i think the easiest comparison is to do one of the founders of each religion .

Mohammed had a child bride, many wives (god allowed him to have more than any other man) he had sex slaves.

Jesus had no interest in sex his only interest in women was as friends even prostitutes.

 

Mohammed had raiding parties where he attacked caravans and and stole from other tribes (god said he could have the largest cut of the booty)

Jesus had no interest in material wealth.

 

Mohammed killed many men, sanctioned cutting off the head of an whole tribe.

Jesus killed no one.

 

Mohammed held grudges and took revenge.

Jesus said turn the other cheek, "love thy neighbour as thyself", "But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you"

Muslims think Mohammed the perfect man.

I see no comparison.

Islam teaches on how to take over bide your t

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58 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Of course you condemn the act.

However it is very important to understand the motives.

I think I understand their motivation pretty well and it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for negotiation does it?  

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Your point about the media. As someone who has had to deal with some fairly awful stuff I know 100%that informing the General public of every detail is a bad idea. Everyone has a different point of view and it can cause major headaches, waistes time and detracts focus. Call it PC if you want the Police dont have time to think about your opinion, they are dealing with the actual hard stuff.

Your earlier post was confusing as it tried to say two things at the same time so let's take another look: 

"We jump from conclusion to conclusion and then wonder why the media won't give us full disclosure. They don't give us full disclosure because we jump to conclusions and that can cause more trouble for those people actively dealing with the fall out while we sit in our homes playing keyboard warriors,  (as it was put earlier)."

My interpretation is that, in your mind, by telling "us" what is really going on "we" get confused but by not telling "us" what is really going on "we" don't cause more trouble.  Is that correct?

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And as far as my idea for a solution at least it was a peaceful solution and not just rhetoric.

The solution you offered was

"we need to see community/church/mosque leaders openly condemn the acts.   We need to work with the upper echelon of thier community and get their support. Which we won't get by condeming all of them based on the acts of what amounts to a handfull of people."  

That is all well and good but are we not doing that now?    Europe has opened their arms to them and they have, for the most part, failed to assimilate and, worse, demand that European countries allow them to live by their laws and customs which means Sharia and horrors like female genital mutilation.  Not all of course but far far too many.  

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How would you fix it peacefully? 

Well thanks for dumping that in my lap!  ;)  Honestly, ask me how to solve the nuclear weapons danger as it is probably more easily done.  What I am saying is that it is a problem that can only be solved by never letting it happen in the first place.  Uncontrolled immigration is a relatively modern absurdity and never ends well for the country that allows it.  When you invite in millions of people who resolutely refuse to assimilate then you have a ticking time bomb which is now going off.  The left is still screaming multiculturalism but that is now being voted away around the world.  

For the states my solution would be, first, to see immigration into our country not as a right but as a gift and allow in only those who wish to be Americans and also only those who can actually improve our country.  i guarantee you that if all the immigrants Obama allowed in voted republican, our borders would've been tighter that Kate Uptons bikini top.  What the democrats here wanted to do is create a permanent underclass that would vote for them ad-infinitum but that has now been  stopped with the last few elections.

What do you do with the ones that are here?   There isn't much you can do except NOT allow them citizenship, in any form, if they haven't adopted our national values.  In other words if you clamor for sharia law and adamantly refuse to abide by the constitution then you get sent back to your home where they practice sharia.   If you commit a felony, off you go.  If you mutilate your daughter she gets asylum and off you go to a place that allows such barbarity.   We are a nation of immigrants but those immigrants became Americans not some permanent underclass as the democrats desire.  Shameful behavior in my opinion and it needed to be stopped.

 

Edited by Merc14
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Hey Merc, thanks for coming to the party with that post. It's a very thought full (and I spell that the way I mean it) post.

The only thing I have time to address is the confusion with my commment on non-disclosure to the public.

Without trivializing the matter too much it's like if you and your partner have an argument and your partner then moans to her best friend about the awful things you did. The best friend now believes she knows your motives and how horrible you are and this can cause problems for both you and your girlfriend when you patch things up.

On a bigger scale with bigger issues it is impossible to regulate if you let everyone stuck their nose in.

It's the reason the Mods and Admin prefer people message us privately if they have an issue. Production time and effective communication works better if not everyone is included. Oh God I can't even imagine how difficult it is for the police to deal with these things in their real lives.

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52 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Hey Merc, thanks for coming to the party with that post. It's a very thought full (and I spell that the way I mean it) post.

The only thing I have time to address is the confusion with my commment on non-disclosure to the public.

Without trivializing the matter too much it's like if you and your partner have an argument and your partner then moans to her best friend about the awful things you did. The best friend now believes she knows your motives and how horrible you are and this can cause problems for both you and your girlfriend when you patch things up.

On a bigger scale with bigger issues it is impossible to regulate if you let everyone stuck their nose in.

It's the reason the Mods and Admin prefer people message us privately if they have an issue. Production time and effective communication works better if not everyone is included. Oh God I can't even imagine how difficult it is for the police to deal with these things in their real lives.

That makes it a bit clearer, thanks.   

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10 hours ago, stevewinn said:

With the information at hand was this man a terrorist or just a criminal. A string of offences and jail sentences for using a knife not once but twice, first in 2000 in a pub slashing a persons face - then comes out of jail and is back in court and jailed for stabbing a man in 2003.

Islamic state claiming he was one of their "soldiers" is a nonsense as well.

Its rather strange how these people who commit these acts say they do it in the name of religion, yet they don't live the strict lifestyle of a devout follower of the religion they claim these attacks are carried out in the name of, many of them are involved in drugs, drink and criminality prohibited under their strict teachings.

When it comes to the excuse this is pay back for the West's actions in the Middle East. - We have to remember more innocent Moslems in the world have died at the hands of Islamic terrorist groups and that's the irony of it all.

 

 

 

It's not. In Islam, martyrdom is the only safe way to paradise. All your sins will be watched away, and you will be invited to sit next to Allah's throne and watch the going-on in hell. It sadly completely makes sense for the horrible Muslims to take on this path.

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9 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I'm not sure what your point is? 

Edit - Lol Breitbart. I can't believe you just quoted Breitbart. That's as bad as Infowars.

State Media 

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8 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

*post removed*

I still say the best way is to be the civilized ones in the equation and stop killing women and children by the dozens and pretending that 4 people being stabbed by a lunatic justifies it. 

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Just now, AnchorSteam said:

My point was ; by Friday there would be Mullahs preaching to their flocks that this terrorist was a hero and they should do the same thing or support more terror. I think the world would be much better off if all of those Mullahs were dead or vanished forever by monday. 

The peaceful majority have made themselves irrelevant by doing nothing to end this, and they would not be harmed by eliminating the guys I am talking about, why even bring them up? 

So let them support more terror, then arrest them and give them a trial like civilized human beings would. Rather than prove them right by murdering them or sending them to a black site to be tortured and detained indefinitely. 

Kinda going back to my previous post, humans are thinking animals, if we (the west) stopped giving the extremist mullahs "bulletin board material" their sermons would fall on deaf ears for all but the most extreme.   At some point after 9/11 we collectively decided that behaving like savages is an acceptable thing to do and until we own that and change it the extremism from the muslims will only grow. 

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6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Kinda going back to my previous post, humans are thinking animals, if we (the west) stopped giving the extremist mullahs their sermons would fall on deaf ears for all but the most extreme.   At some point after 9/11 we collectively decided that behaving like savages is an acceptable thing to do and until we own that and change it the extremism from the muslims will only grow. 

I just removed that post myself, why are you still quoting it?

 

Gotta go now, but what "bulletin board material" are you talking about? Any and all measures taken to stop the Jihad are very much opposed by the Left, only the ones that involve destroying the freedoms of ALL people are met with approval.

It is a WAR, the enemy themselves call it that.

It will go on forever if we continue to whimp out at every turn. If actual fighting is too savage for you to comprehend then just step aside and let somebody else do the fighting.... or admit that a permanent state of warfare is too valuable to Big Brother and that Global Jihad suits the Globalist agenda so well that certain powers cannot allow it to end.

Ever. 

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1 minute ago, AnchorSteam said:

I just removed that post myself, why are you still quoting it?

 

Gotta go now, but what "bulletin board material" are you talking about? Any and all measures taken to stop the Jihad are very much opposed by the Left, only the ones that involve destroying the freedoms of ALL people are met with approval.

It is a WAR, the enemy themselves call it that.

It will go on forever if we continue to whimp out at every turn. If actual fighting is too savage for you to comprehend then just step aside and let somebody else do the fighting.... or admit that a permanent state of warfare is too valuable to Big Brother and that Global Jihad suits the Globalist agenda so well that certain powers cannot allow it to end.

Ever. 

LOL "its a war" its only a war because we have deemed it so. If we hadnt it would only be a few nutjobs attempting to do stupid ****. 

Your last sentence is in my opinion the very sad reality of the situation. 

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4 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

I just removed that post myself, why are you still quoting it?

 

Gotta go now, but what "bulletin board material" are you talking about? Any and all measures taken to stop the Jihad are very much opposed by the Left, only the ones that involve destroying the freedoms of ALL people are met with approval.

It is a WAR, the enemy themselves call it that.

It will go on forever if we continue to whimp out at every turn. If actual fighting is too savage for you to comprehend then just step aside and let somebody else do the fighting.... or admit that a permanent state of warfare is too valuable to Big Brother and that Global Jihad suits the Globalist agenda so well that certain powers cannot allow it to end.

Ever. 

Oh bulletin board material. ......women and children killed in Mosul just today is a great example, as is the recent collateral damage in Yemen, the existence of Guantanamo bay , the POTUS saying that perhaps we should target terrorists families, oh yeah that whole **** show with abugraib.....thats just right off the top of my head. 

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7 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Oh bulletin board material. ......women and children killed in Mosul just today is a great example, as is the recent collateral damage in Yemen, the existence of Guantanamo bay , the POTUS saying that perhaps we should target terrorists families, oh yeah that whole **** show with abugraib.....thats just right off the top of my head. 

Your logic is wrong because the countries that are being attacked right now are not in Iraq are they?  See, they are not attacking us because we are over there, they need us over there to make things work, they are attacking us because we don't have a right to exist.  What did the Belgians do in Iraq that warranted an attack?  Now if you want to make peace at any cost then give up all your rights and bow down to Sharia law and al that entails.  The ladies in your life may not be happy with their new lot in life but hey, you will have appeased the barbarians that are blowing up little kids and assuaged your white guilt.  

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16 hours ago, FLOMBIE said:

It's not. In Islam, martyrdom is the only safe way to paradise. All your sins will be watched away, and you will be invited to sit next to Allah's throne and watch the going-on in hell. It sadly completely makes sense for the horrible Muslims to take on this path.

That's if you conflate the issue between Martyrdom and Suicide, for example Sunni Islam the branch of Islam these Terrorist are "following" as never had a ritual of suicidal - self-sacrifice. unlike Shi'ite/Shia. So in that respect the "devout terrorists" are going against the teachings. At the end of the day these terrorists are interpreting religious texts to justify their actions. - let us not make the same mistake.

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9 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Your logic is wrong because the countries that are being attacked right now are not in Iraq are they?  See, they are not attacking us because we are over there, they need us over there to make things work, they are attacking us because we don't have a right to exist.  What did the Belgians do in Iraq that warranted an attack?  Now if you want to make peace at any cost then give up all your rights and bow down to Sharia law and al that entails.  The ladies in your life may not be happy with their new lot in life but hey, you will have appeased the barbarians that are blowing up little kids and assuaged your white guilt.  

They've always attacked us because we're over there. 9/11 was because we were over there. Belgium was part of the alliance in Afghanistan. 

No i dont want to make peace at all cost, I simply want a reasoned response to the threat. Hell look at France, they just had three people shot and killed yet it wasnt the front page story everywhere  - despite there only being one less fatality then what happened in London - why? Because it was a nutjob/scumbag doing the killing and he wasnt polite enough to scream alla akbar for the military industrial complex's lobbying efforts. The overreaction to islamic terrorism has been crushing to this nation and this world. Its time to stop with the hysterics. 

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23 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

They've always attacked us because we're over there. 9/11 was because we were over there. Belgium was part of the alliance in Afghanistan. 

No i dont want to make peace at all cost, I simply want a reasoned response to the threat. Hell look at France, they just had three people shot and killed yet it wasnt the front page story everywhere  - despite there only being one less fatality then what happened in London - why? Because it was a nutjob/scumbag doing the killing and he wasnt polite enough to scream alla akbar for the military industrial complex's lobbying efforts. The overreaction to islamic terrorism has been crushing to this nation and this world. Its time to stop with the hysterics. 

The France attack is actually all over the place farmer but you seem to be the only person who knows the shooters identity!  Best call Interpol bud, they don't know hat you do apparently.  

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Just now, Merc14 said:

The France attack is actually all over the place farmer but you seem to be the only person who knows the shooters identity!  Best call Interpol bud, they don't know hat you do apparently.  

Its all over the place many many hours after the fact. There was actually a decent amount of outrage over it : Lille shooting: 3 injured as gunman opens fire near metro station in northern France I was watching it unfold in real time. 

From the article :

The coverage of the shooting has caused some controversy on social media. While major international news agencies chose to ignore the incident altogether, several UK tabloids picked the story under headlines such as “Terror fears in Lille as 'many wounded' in shooting near metro station in center of French city” (Daily Mirror) and “Terror alert in Lille…” (Daily Mail)

 

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2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its all over the place many many hours after the fact. There was actually a decent amount of outrage over it : Lille shooting: 3 injured as gunman opens fire near metro station in northern France I was watching it unfold in real time. 

From the article :

The coverage of the shooting has caused some controversy on social media. While major international news agencies chose to ignore the incident altogether, several UK tabloids picked the story under headlines such as “Terror fears in Lille as 'many wounded' in shooting near metro station in center of French city” (Daily Mirror) and “Terror alert in Lille…” (Daily Mail)

 

yes but no one knows who the shooter is as far as I can tell 

Edited by Merc14
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