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Have you gone from atheist to believer or....

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Future ghost
14 hours ago, crystal sage said:

Do you know that you cannot buy holy water anywhere.. I even went to churches.. I am Catholic..  told them about the situation and they refused!!!   I managed to get some from a friend who went to Rome and got some ... 

Wow, I can't believe that. I just went to the church up the road and they gave me some. Holy oil, too.

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crystal sage
On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 5:37 PM, Frank Merton said:

Oh there is no doubt belief in God has influenced the course of history.  That is a large part why I don't believe.

I don't think of myself as a gnarly atheist.  I have a few warts but no gnarls that I know of.

Have you ever had evidence of .. or some signs of a presence .. a sighting of .. symbolic songs.. shared objects of  mutual interest  that you keep noticing at times when you need an emotional boost... that could be  from some of those that you loved and have passed on to the next realm.. or ( if you don't believe in the next realm)  that after they died you still feel their presence.. or that little signs were left around.. that beat the norm of coincidence of ever happening at all or so often  in normal reality... that made you think of them?    If the consciousness soul passes on.. or stays with you..  it is evidence that there must be a collective whole.. some sort of organization of all of these passed on souls.. consciousnesses...  consciousnesses too would seek other consciousnesses to understand what has happened to them .. how to work it all.. they too may meet up with consciousnesses they once new... there would be some sort of consciousness. spiritual gathering place.. to meet share.. help each other...  some spirits.. consciousnesses that have a clue as to what is happening to them and may know more of the ropes of what to do with it all.. how to go about things.. what has worked for them and what hasn't...   if these can exist.. why not further.. to head honcho's in these fields of disbanded.. collected consciousnesses..   if the spirits.. souls of those who have passed have ever left a message or managed to pass on a message or make themselves known in your mind.. there is evidence of a form of telepathy... if one spirit can connect.. why not others??? why not a really gifted  ONE ???   :) 

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XenoFish
7 minutes ago, crystal sage said:

Have you ever had evidence of .. or some signs of a presence .. a sighting of .. symbolic songs.. shared objects of  mutual interest  that you keep noticing at times when you need an emotional boost... that could be  from some of those that you loved and have passed on to the next realm.. or ( if you don't believe in the next realm)  that after they died you still feel their presence.. or that little signs were left around.. that beat the norm of coincidence of ever happening at all or so often  in normal reality... that made you think of them?    If the consciousness soul passes on.. or stays with you..  it is evidence that there must be a collective whole.. some sort of organization of all of these passed on souls.. consciousnesses...  consciousnesses too would seek other consciousnesses to understand what has happened to them .. how to work it all.. they too may meet up with consciousnesses they once new... there would be some sort of consciousness. spiritual gathering place.. to meet share.. help each other...  some spirits.. consciousnesses that have a clue as to what is happening to them and may know more of the ropes of what to do with it all.. how to go about things.. what has worked for them and what hasn't...   if these can exist.. why not further.. to head honcho's in these fields of disbanded.. collected consciousnesses..   if the spirits.. souls of those who have passed have ever left a message or managed to pass on a message or make themselves known in your mind.. there is evidence of a form of telepathy... if one spirit can connect.. why not others??? why not a really gifted  ONE ???   :) 

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Wishful_thinking

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Magical_thinking

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Synchronicity

It's all a form of confirmation bias, where you absorb and affirm those things which conform to your beliefs. 

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crystal sage
On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 4:18 AM, Future ghost said:

Wow, I can't believe that. I just went to the church up the road and they gave me some. Holy oil, too.

:(   That is soooo unfair... I do not look shifty.... as if I would use it for some satanic rite.. I was born Catholic... went to church most of my childhood... and I had a real need for it !!!  I even said that they could come down and do an exorcism for me if they liked.. I explained some of the stuff that was happening.. and they refused!!!..   I even asked this couple of 7th Day Adventists that had been coming to our house every month for years to give us their Watchtower newsletter..  I asked if they had anyone in their group who did exorcisms... they said that they had heard of it but that it wasn't done any more.. I invited them in for tea.. and of course the toy spirits started playing up... almost on cue... every time I mentioned it they all started to go... the dolls started talking... the jack in the box jumped.. the little dog house played.. 'How much is that doggy in the window" ...  the giggling doll giggled... It only lasted a few second each time but it freaked them out..   they tried to act all composed...  but their tea cups were really rattling in their saucers.. biscuits dunked were dunked too long...  they tried for about a good 15 to 20 minutes to stay brave... but they had never experienced anything like this before... I pointed out I had 3 little kids under 4 and was worried for them.. could they recommend anyone for this.. the toys went off again..   they got even more nervous and said that if the toys went of once more they would leave... as if on cue they all went off .. even more joined in and kept going until they raced out of the door and  then they stopped !!!   I must admit it was funny to me as I was a little used to it by now.. what is that hostage syndrome called again???     I thought over the next few weeks that this couple would send someone down to help us .. but they never did and I never saw them again !!!    I have no idea what they told their church group...  

 

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crystal sage
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Wishful_thinking

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Magical_thinking

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Synchronicity

It's all a form of confirmation bias, where you absorb and affirm those things which conform to your beliefs. 

  How would you explain this... this happened days after we found out about my husband's death a couple of years ago.. we found out from the lawyers that there was no insurance policy.. no funds.. no money...    I  had my Mum and a few others around  consoling me and I think something made me go into the garage.. I think the cat ran in and got stuck or something.. well when I went in I had found that somehow an envelope had made it's way out of a plastic storage container of my husbands papers.. I had a quick look and it was an old superannuation notice from over 20 years ago.. I put it back as I thought the scheme was no longer valid as in those days they took about $900 out every year for a management fee.. and figured by now nothing would be left...   so I put it back in and closed the box...  we resumed coffee and the wind blew the garage door open and again as I went to  close it I noticed this same envelope had managed to slide it's way out again.. weird as I had tucked it down the sides of the box in a folder... I put it back..  laughing to the others about the weirdness of it all... it happened twice more.. so I finally took it.. and rang up the super fund and found out that indeed even though no contributions were added to this old fund for over 20 years it was still valid... so I was able to claim this and it was enough to help pay for the funeral and cover expenses for the first year..   If that was not spiritual intervention.. what was?? this was not syncronistic.. psychological wishful thinking.. this was real.. useful.. and a practical assistance...  why only that one envelope.. how did it somehow slide out of the plastic storage container so many times no mater how much I secured it in the box and secured the lid??  I had witnesses too.. !!!   We had other spooky experiences... when  we sold our house we felt rather awkward about leaving my husband's ashes in the house for the viewings so we put his ashes in the car...   this time we forgot to bring the ashes back in after the viewings ..  my daughter and I  where watching television  when she received a message on her phone...  she freaked as it was from my late husband's discontinued phone !!!  she freaked.. I freaked .. then we realized that we left his ashes in the car.. we promptly retrieved them..!!!   This was the first and last time she received a text from my late husband.. her father..   what is the chance of that???   Again... that is one of many experiences since his passing..

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XenoFish

Quick question. Do you want me to take this apart or would you like to keep it as is? I know a lot you have an emotional need for spiritualism that helps you in life. If I reduce this down to a few rational explanations it will become broken. Keep this as is, or? 

Choice is yours. 

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crystal sage
5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Quick question. Do you want me to take this apart or would you like to keep it as is? I know a lot you have an emotional need for spiritualism that helps you in life. If I reduce this down to a few rational explanations it will become broken. Keep this as is, or? 

Choice is yours. 

that is fine... because I also failed to mention about the 3rd time I put the letter back  I actually witnessed it slowly working it's way out again.. it wriggled..   like it was being squeezed out...   ;) maybe it is my subconscious telekinetic skills at work ???

 

Edited by crystal sage

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XenoFish
35 minutes ago, crystal sage said:

(First thing first a request, could you please start using paragraphs. This is hard to read) 

How would you explain this... this happened days after we found out about my husband's death a couple of years ago.. we found out from the lawyers that there was no insurance policy.. no funds.. no money...    I  had my Mum and a few others around  consoling me and I think something made me go into the garage.. I think the cat ran in and got stuck or something.. well when I went in I had found that somehow an envelope had made it's way out of a plastic storage container of my husbands papers.

The cat could've been messing around a caused it to come out of the plastic container or perhaps it was always that way. Only this time you noticed it.

. I had a quick look and it was an old superannuation notice from over 20 years ago.. I put it back as I thought the scheme was no longer valid as in those days they took about $900 out every year for a management fee.. and figured by now nothing would be left...   so I put it back in and closed the box...  we resumed coffee and the wind blew the garage door open and again as I went to  close it I noticed this same envelope had managed to slide it's way out again.

The lid may not have been on as firmly as you thought and the wind moved it out. It would be loose paper. This also lead into a meaningful coincidence.

. weird as I had tucked it down the sides of the box in a folder... I put it back..  laughing to the others about the weirdness of it all... it happened twice more.. so I finally took it.. and rang up the super fund and found out that indeed even though no contributions were added to this old fund for over 20 years it was still valid... so I was able to claim this and it was enough to help pay for the funeral and cover expenses for the first year..   If that was not spiritual intervention.. what was??

A lot of times we mis-remember things. Perhaps you subconsciously knew about that envelope and in a state of grief sought it out unconsciously. What makes this a meaningful coincidence is the meanings you assign to the events. This is how magical thinking works. No causal effect between you're mindset and the events. They took on the meaning that you gave them.

this was not syncronistic.. psychological wishful thinking.. this was real.. useful.. and a practical assistance... 

Self-fulfilling actions at most, coincidence at best. You probably forgot about it years ago and when you needed it you subconsciously remembered, almost "mystically guided."

why only that one envelope.. how did it somehow slide out of the plastic storage container so many times no mater how much I secured it in the box and secured the lid??  I had witnesses too.. !!!  

Memory is not perfect especially if it's emotionally charged. Which I suspecting you and the others were in a highly emotional state.

We had other spooky experiences... when  we sold our house we felt rather awkward about leaving my husband's ashes in the house for the viewings so we put his ashes in the car...   this time we forgot to bring the ashes back in after the viewings ..  my daughter and I  where watching television  when she received a message on her phone...  she freaked as it was from my late husband's discontinued phone !!!  she freaked.. I freaked .. then we realized that we left his ashes in the car.. we promptly retrieved them..!!!   This was the first and last time she received a text from my late husband.. her father..   what is the chance of that???

Have you ever lost a text? You sent it to someone or they sent it to you and for some reason months later the dang thing shows up? I have. It happens more than I like. 

   Again... that is one of many experiences since his passing..

The problem with people is that we like to assign mean to everything. It makes us feel in control when we do not. Events will almost seem meaningful whenever a desire is present. Back before I gave up on metaphysics I was going through a legal issue and praying that I get enough money to pay our lawyer off. A day later I received an offer from a loan agency for the amount I required. At that time I thought my prayer had been answered. In hindsight I realized that I had received a lot of these things but never paid them much attention, till I needed to. 

I've done the same thing with finding money. Even putting things away only to mis-remember when I didn't actually do it, I just thought I did. We all do stuff like that. Perhaps something as simple as losing a loved one only to hear there favorite song on the radio soon after, and assigning a meaning to it. Even though the song would've played regardless if there was a lose or not. 

In a sad way this is a false positive. A feedback loop that we might start associating things with more occult/metaphysical meaning. A lot like how the law of attraction really works. You think about solving a problem, then subconsciously (because the cat triggered you going into the basement) you self-fulfill your desire. Getting the money you required (which was always there) to put things to a close. 

I know this isn't a proper or meaningful explanation. Or even one that you'll give 2 cents for, but here are my thoughts on what occurred. 

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Frank Merton
1 hour ago, crystal sage said:

Have you ever had evidence of .. or some signs of a presence .. a sighting of .. symbolic songs.. shared objects of  mutual interest  that you keep noticing at times when you need an emotional boost... that could be  from some of those that you loved and have passed on to the next realm.. or ( if you don't believe in the next realm)  that after they died you still feel their presence.. or that little signs were left around.. that beat the norm of coincidence of ever happening at all or so often  in normal reality... that made you think of them?    If the consciousness soul passes on.. or stays with you..  it is evidence that there must be a collective whole.. some sort of organization of all of these passed on souls.. consciousnesses...  consciousnesses too would seek other consciousnesses to understand what has happened to them .. how to work it all.. they too may meet up with consciousnesses they once new... there would be some sort of consciousness. spiritual gathering place.. to meet share.. help each other...  some spirits.. consciousnesses that have a clue as to what is happening to them and may know more of the ropes of what to do with it all.. how to go about things.. what has worked for them and what hasn't...   if these can exist.. why not further.. to head honcho's in these fields of disbanded.. collected consciousnesses..   if the spirits.. souls of those who have passed have ever left a message or managed to pass on a message or make themselves known in your mind.. there is evidence of a form of telepathy... if one spirit can connect.. why not others??? why not a really gifted  ONE ???   :) 

Oh how easily we fool ourselves.  We remember the coincidences but forget all the non-coincidences.  It's called selective memory and is a if not the foundation of most if not all superstition and religion.

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Frank Merton
8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The problem with people is that we like to assign mean to everything. It makes us feel in control when we do not. Events will almost seem meaningful whenever a desire is present. Back before I gave up on metaphysics I was going through a legal issue and praying that I get enough money to pay our lawyer off. A day later I received an offer from a loan agency for the amount I required. At that time I thought my prayer had been answered. In hindsight I realized that I had received a lot of these things but never paid them much attention, till I needed to. 

I've done the same thing with finding money. Even putting things away only to mis-remember when I didn't actually do it, I just thought I did. We all do stuff like that. Perhaps something as simple as losing a loved one only to hear there favorite song on the radio soon after, and assigning a meaning to it. Even though the song would've played regardless if there was a lose or not. 

In a sad way this is a false positive. A feedback loop that we might start associating things with more occult/metaphysical meaning. A lot like how the law of attraction really works. You think about solving a problem, then subconsciously (because the cat triggered you going into the basement) you self-fulfill your desire. Getting the money you required (which was always there) to put things to a close. 

I know this isn't a proper or meaningful explanation. Or even one that you'll give 2 cents for, but here are my thoughts on what occurred. 

I was busted; down and out; hungry -- and I found a hundred dollars.  Did some guardian angel arrange that?  Well then, what about all the times I've been busted, down and out, hungry, and no money appeared -- I had to call my folks to send me some?

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Frank Merton

I have to guess that holy water becomes holy through some ritual or prayer.  Why not do the thing yourself and have an unlimited supply?

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XenoFish
Just now, Frank Merton said:

I was busted; down and out; hungry -- and I found a hundred dollars.  Did some guardian angel arrange that?  Well then, what about all the times I've been busted, down and out, hungry, and no money appeared -- I had to call my folks to send me some?

Easy, first part was mindset and the second part was mindset. You wanted money and you noticed it, you wanted money and there was none to be found. Just because you think of something doesn't make that something real. During this time did you not make the effort to take every opportunity that came your way? Did you not seek on any level to elevate yourself out of your situation? Apparently you did. 

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Frank Merton said:

I have to guess that holy water becomes holy through some ritual or prayer.  Why not do the thing yourself and have an unlimited supply?

Holy water becomes holy because you believe it is. It's just water. 

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Frank Merton
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Easy, first part was mindset and the second part was mindset. You wanted money and you noticed it, you wanted money and there was none to be found. Just because you think of something doesn't make that something real. During this time did you not make the effort to take every opportunity that came your way? Did you not seek on any level to elevate yourself out of your situation? Apparently you did. 

I'm more inclined to sometimes your lucky and sometimes you ain't.B)

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XenoFish
Just now, Frank Merton said:

I'm more inclined to sometimes your lucky and sometimes you ain't.B)

Short simple and to the point.:tu:

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Frank Merton
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Holy water becomes holy because you believe it is. It's just water. 

Well, yes, of course.  When I go to Pagoda they tie a bit of orange (officially "saffron") colored yarn around my wrist, until I take it off, I'm a holy person.

Most take it off pretty soon -- its burdensome being holy.

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crystal sage
29 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

I was busted; down and out; hungry -- and I found a hundred dollars.  Did some guardian angel arrange that?  Well then, what about all the times I've been busted, down and out, hungry, and no money appeared -- I had to call my folks to send me some?

Maybe it just happens enough to give you hope.. some positivity during the worst times...  With me I was totally angry and p***ed off at him dying.. and leaving us all in this mess  in such a way...   I made him work for it.. so if it were him.. I sat outside facing the open garage door in sight of that box and watched.. daring him to do this.. to throw out that envelope from the  plastic storage box...  and saw it happen !!!..  right in full view !!!   practically minutes afterwards  it started the process of wriggling it's way out.. .. and it happened so quickly too !!!  He was just as stubborn as I am...  And I had the same attitude too... if he was so powerfull that he could move this... why not help me win Tattslotto.. so that our kids wouldn't be in financial hardships as well as the trauma of him dying so suddenly !!

Edited by crystal sage

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crystal sage
24 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Well, yes, of course.  When I go to Pagoda they tie a bit of orange (officially "saffron") colored yarn around my wrist, until I take it off, I'm a holy person.

Most take it off pretty soon -- its burdensome being holy.

:)      But there must be something extra here.. more than the spiritual effect of the Placebo and Nocebo   like effect  on reality...  there is so much out there on the power of prayer.. and intention..  especially interesting when we explore it with plants.. they can't be influenced in controlled conditions..  or can they??   http://quantum-agri-phils.com/PowerofPrayeronSeedsandPlants.pdf

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Future ghost
1 hour ago, crystal sage said:

:(   That is soooo unfair... I do not look shifty.... as if I would use it for some satanic rite.. I was born Catholic... went to church most of my childhood... and I had a real need for it !!!  I even said that they could come down and do an exorcism for me if they liked.. I explained some of the stuff that was happening.. and they refused!!!..   I even asked this couple of 7th Day Adventists that had been coming to our house every month for years to give us their Watchtower newsletter..  I asked if they had anyone in their group who did exorcisms... they said that they had heard of it but that it wasn't done any more.. I invited them in for tea.. and of course the toy spirits started playing up... almost on cue... every time I mentioned it they all started to go... the dolls started talking... the jack in the box jumped.. the little dog house played.. 'How much is that doggy in the window" ...  the giggling doll giggled... It only lasted a few second each time but it freaked them out..   they tried to act all composed...  but their tea cups were really rattling in their saucers.. biscuits dunked were dunked too long...  they tried for about a good 15 to 20 minutes to stay brave... but they had never experienced anything like this before... I pointed out I had 3 little kids under 4 and was worried for them.. could they recommend anyone for this.. the toys went off again..   they got even more nervous and said that if the toys went of once more they would leave... as if on cue they all went off .. even more joined in and kept going until they raced out of the door and  then they stopped !!!   I must admit it was funny to me as I was a little used to it by now.. what is that hostage syndrome called again???     I thought over the next few weeks that this couple would send someone down to help us .. but they never did and I never saw them again !!!    I have no idea what they told their church group...  

 

So sorry to hear of your situation, it sounds pretty freaky. I'm not catholic, but from what I understand getting an exorcism from a Catholic Church is quite an ordeal. I think they have to have documented evidence of the occurrence, which is kind of hard to get if they won't come over in the first place. Then I think they have to present that evidence to the Vatican for approval to perform the exorcism. Please don't take my comments to heart, as I have said that I'm not catholic, so I'm not completely sure that this is how it works. You might be better off just getting a paranormal group to investigate, and hopefully remove what's there. This is what they do, so they shouldn't think you're crazy. But make sure you get a group who specializes in removing things,and not one that just investigates, or you'll still have these problems. Best of luck to you!

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crystal sage
33 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Holy water becomes holy because you believe it is. It's just water. 

Try using it on someone going through psychosis..  or some trauma..   or use the lord's prayer.. I just recited it in my mind... you should see how it affect some  people.. just   do it discreetly, so that they don't have a clue...  you can do it from a distance too..  just be in a zen like state when you do it...  :)   I have noticed the difference...

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XenoFish
4 minutes ago, crystal sage said:

Try using it on someone going through psychosis..  or some trauma..   or use the lord's prayer.. I just recited it in my mind... you should see how it affect some  people.. just   do it discreetly, so that they don't have a clue...  you can do it from a distance too..  just be in a zen like state when you do it...  :)   I have noticed the difference...

I gave up that kind of stuff. Magick, energy work, all pointless. No results other than self-deception. I wasted to many years of my life in false hope.

Edited by XenoFish
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back to earth
57 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Holy water becomes holy because you believe it is. It's just water. 

But .... but ....   It  burns  !   ( Oooooch ! ) 

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crystal sage
4 minutes ago, Future ghost said:

So sorry to hear of your situation, it sounds pretty freaky. I'm not catholic, but from what I understand getting an exorcism from a Catholic Church is quite an ordeal. I think they have to have documented evidence of the occurrence, which is kind of hard to get if they won't come over in the first place. Then I think they have to present that evidence to the Vatican for approval to perform the exorcism. Please don't take my comments to heart, as I have said that I'm not catholic, so I'm not completely sure that this is how it works. You might be better off just getting a paranormal group to investigate, and hopefully remove what's there. This is what they do, so they shouldn't think you're crazy. But make sure you get a group who specializes in removing things,and not one that just investigates, or you'll still have these problems. Best of luck to you!

I ended up actually doing it myself... ( I had no idea if it would work... that is why I tried to get the holy water.. after having no luck from the churches or religious people... I manage to get some Frankinsense and Myrrh though my Reiki friends... I had recently done an Aura Soma course .. so I had the essence called Gold...  I had lots of bibles.. Morman.. kids ones.. school ones.. ;) I think I used one of the many Mormon ones all the visiting Mormans gave us..  ( we have always been friendly enough to let them in and discuss their religion.. debate it with them over a cup of tea or a coca cola.. ( the Mormon Kids prefer this )   so  then I remembered that they used Arch Angel Michael.. but I had no clue as to how  to do this or what bit to read... then out of the blue ... ( :) note more synchronistic incidences ) and old friend who I had studied Bowen with rang up..   I asked him if he knew anything about exorcisms.. and he said coincidently a friend of his asked him to help him with one the next week... !!!!  I was amazed as I had no idea these things were a common occurrence..   maybe I just mix with weird random people... well anyway I asked him if he wanted to practice this  with me first... He said fine.. I remembered another movie where they mentioned a bell a book and a candle.. I had candles.. the Morman book.. and the old bell from our front door when we bought the house...    so the next day I think it was he came around to help.. coincidently too my husband's friend came around to do some Law  studies.. my husband was tutoring him...  so he of course thought I was crazy but he was amused.. and went about writing his essay..  we used the massage table that was out to house the candle .. the bell .. I had the  frankincense and myrrh that I  walked around the house with.. then allowed it go continue smoking in the room.. my friend knew what passage to read.. about when to light the candle.. ring the bell.. and  etc.. I sprinkled the Aura soma gold water around.. and then held on to the incense sticks...  a  I did some clock work spinning..  when he recited some of the stuff // ( I can't remember all he said   or what passage)   but as soon as he said the words about Archangel Michael bringing the sword of light to cast out the demons..  it did a spin with the  candle?    I can't fully remember now as it was nearly 20 years ago... but as soon as we said those words.. all the lights went out in the house... we had a yell from the computer room as the computer went out too and the friend had not saved his essay that he had spent hours writing...  we tried to fix the fuse but that didn't work... then we noticed all the neighbours out in the street and they said all their electricity went out too... we rang the electrical suppliers and they said that they had no idea what caused it but what ever it was blew all the fuses in the 5 surrounding suburbs !!!      I gather that was a clearing.. or maybe just extreme coincidence ???    My late husband's friend still remembers it because of losing his essay.. and the kids who were playing in their rooms were totally amused too as we had dinner via candle light.. and our stove was gas so we could still heat up dinner..    I put salt all around the house the next day.. as I heard that stops spirits from returning..   :) 

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XenoFish

That wasn't holy water. It was acid.

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Farmer77
Just now, XenoFish said:

That wasn't holy water. It was acid.

God i miss acid. I could really use a cleansing trip right about now 

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