Opening gambits in EU / UK exit negotiations;

[danydandan]

9 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

I`m not so bothered if they claim benefits because when they work their income tax goes to our tax man.

Its more the numbers. I have been to Dublin, you guys dont have the same immigration problem as us. If you spent the weekend in London you would understand why we are more frosty towards immigration. Yes, they are nice people but there are far too many.

If you walked around Temple Bar, Grafton Street and O'Connell Street often times you'd be hard pressed to hear English being spoken. But that doesn't matter, cultural diversity is a good thing. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by danydandan

[spud the mackem]

21 hours ago, danydandan said:

Nothing.

After brexit who knows. I'm hoping for a United Ireland.

That would be good but its never going to happen as the N.I. people believe that they are British , and religion is a big factor unfortunately , as The Falls Road Belfast proved it .Plus you have the Orange clan ,who are extremely jealous of guarding their rights .

[Duke Wellington]

4 minutes ago, danydandan said:

If you walked around Temple Bar, Grafton Street and O'Connell Street often times you'd be hard pressed to hear English being spoken. But that doesn't matter, cultural diversity is a good thing. 

In moderation lol.

[spud the mackem]

3 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

In moderation lol.

I don't mind foreign people coming here as long as they are prepared to work ,and not sponge off the state for benefits , because having been around the world (twice) poor foreigners think that the streets of London are literally paved with gold. I've asked people , if you didn't live here where would you rather live , and the 100% answer is London. That's why we have approximately 3 1/2 million foreigners living in London.

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, spud the mackem said:

I don't mind foreign people coming here as long as they are prepared to work ,and not sponge off the state for benefits , because having been around the world (twice) poor foreigners think that the streets of London are literally paved with gold. I've asked people , if you didn't live here where would you rather live , and the 100% answer is London. That's why we have approximately 3 1/2 million foreigners living in London.

Nah, the reason is weak politicians let that number in.

[danydandan]

14 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

That would be good but its never going to happen as the N.I. people believe that they are British , and religion is a big factor unfortunately , as The Falls Road Belfast proved it .Plus you have the Orange clan ,who are extremely jealous of guarding their rights .

Eh no..

Some believe they are British, not all do. I'd say vast majority believe they are Irish. Some also believe they are neither Irish nor British but Northern Irish. 

But if a referendum was held up North the result would be for a United Ireland. I'm not convinced our government wants that though, as they could easily have been pushing for said referendum as soon as Brexit was announced.

Edited February 2, 2019 by danydandan

[Duke Wellington]

9 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Eh no..

Some believe they are British, not all do. I'd say vast majority believe they are Irish. Some also believe they are neither Irish nor British but Northern Irish. 

But if a referendum was held up North the result would be for a United Ireland. I'm not convinced our government wants that though, as they could easily have been pushing for said referendum as soon as Brexit was announced.

It would become another Crimea if they left and then people started trying to have a pop at the Protestants and mixed Irish/British population there. Its why we went in to begin with. Yes, history might not have been fair to Ireland but it is what it is and we cant let people die as a result.

[danydandan]

17 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

It would become another Crimea if they left and then people started trying to have a pop at the Protestants and mixed Irish/British population there. Its why we went in to begin with. Yes, history might not have been fair to Ireland but it is what it is and we cant let people die as a result.

Certainly is a dicey situation. With probably no other way than to wait a few generations, in order to resolve it with out violence.

Republicans and Unionists could start up the violence again depending on the situation.

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, Saru said:

Thread cleaned

Keep it civil please - there are way too many derogatory personal remarks being thrown around in this discussion.

well done about time you stepped in.

[stevewinn]

22 hours ago, danydandan said:

Nothing.

After brexit who knows. I'm hoping for a United Ireland.

a united Ireland and what's that going to bring?

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, Saru said:

Thread cleaned

Keep it civil please - there are way too many derogatory personal remarks being thrown around in this discussion.

Quite right !!! We shouldn't sink to such depths as personal insults !

Bignose

[RoofGardener]

2 hours ago, danydandan said:

Absolutely not. 

I believe something like the US would work. There are a number of different cultures within the US. It would also help stop wars in Europe, that's one of the only good things the EU has done.

The problem is, danydandan, that the EU would progressively attempt to weaken and dilute local culture, in order to loosen the ties of nationality, and make it easier to subsume the individual regions and nations into the Federal States of Europe. This is ONE reason whey they are so keen on immigration from non-European cultures.

[Duke Wellington]

1 minute ago, RoofGardener said:

The problem is, danydandan, that the EU would progressively attempt to weaken and dilute local culture, in order to loosen the ties of nationality, and make it easier to subsume the individual regions and nations into the Federal States of Europe. This is ONE reason whey they are so keen on immigration from non-European cultures.

If the people vote no just fill up their countries with enough immigrants to get a yes vote.

[danydandan]

15 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

a united Ireland and what's that going to bring?

Who knows. 

But it's something every Irish man wants to see. Ideologically speaking. Whether it's practical or achievable without violence is another story.

[stevewinn]

Just now, danydandan said:

Who knows. 

But it's something every Irish man wants to see. Ideologically speaking. Whether it's practical or achievable without violence is another story.

something that can only happen if RoI can guarantee the safety of UK citizens. sadly Londonderry highlights it cant.

Ireland wanted Independence, wanted to be treated as a separate country in its own right yet when the possibility of being treated like any other 3rd country violence is threatened.

Just look at the Irish border. a total none issue for me. But Ireland needs to accept that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom IE: another country. if they'd be able to not only understand but accept that then a hard border would be no problem. 

after all isn't that what independence from the UK is.

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

something that can only happen if RoI can guarantee the safety of UK citizens. sadly Londonderry highlights it cant.

Ireland wanted Independence, wanted to be treated as a separate country in its own right yet when the possibility of being treated like any other 3rd country violence is threatened.

Just look at the Irish border. a total none issue for me. But Ireland needs to accept that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom IE: another country. if they'd be able to not only understand but accept that then a hard border would be no problem. 

after all isn't that what independence from the UK is.

The English no longer see Normandy or Calais as their rightful territory.

Give Ireland a couple of centuries, they will soon forget.

[keithisco]

9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Turkey is not in the EU? if they did that then the EU has not acted well towards the UK. 

And that comment just goes to show your ignorance...No, Turkey is NOT in the EU. I wonder where you are from

[danydandan]

I was just watching Grand Tour, even Jeremy Clarkson thinks Brexit is a stupid idea.

"In a few years, when Brexit has caught up with us, we will need pick-up trucks because there will be civil war." 

I assumed Clarkson was a Brexiteer.

[hetrodoxly]

15 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Jeremy Clarkson thinks Brexit is a stupid idea.

He want's to work for the bbC* again.

[stevewinn]

9 hours ago, danydandan said:

If Ireland beats England in the Rubgyball today, I hear PM May will accept the backstop. Just so paddypower will stop taking the p*** out of Brexit.

Edxit is only 2/1. 

 

 

 

At least they can take the p*** outta themselves. 

Back on topic. 

Just note

Germany 1.5%. In 2018. Forecast 1% 2019.

UK 1.6%. In 2018. Forecast 1.8% 2019.

Problems for the Eurozone a head. THE GERMAN economy slumped to its weakest rate in five years, marking a clear slowdown after Europe’s economic powerhouse skirted close to the brink of recession. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Torchwood]

5 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Just look at the Irish border. a total none issue for me. But Ireland needs to accept that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom IE: another country. if they'd be able to not only understand but accept that then a hard border would be no problem. 

The problem with a hard border isn't that RoI won't like it (though they won't), its that the Republicans in NI won't like it. 

 

If we had had about 100 years of boring politics and a couple of generations that didn't remember the conflict in NI, and grown up  knowing nothing but peace we might get away with a hard border.  But for some its still fresh in the memory, and old wounds will be reopened.  Maybe level heads will prevail and they'll just wait for the promised "digital tech" to be invented to resolve the problem, but with a bomb going off just the other week I wouldn't count on it....

[Unusual Tournament]

8 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Yes, and rightly so ! But indirectly. It created anger at the increased power of the EU to start mandating border control issues. It convinced more and more people that the EU was aiming for a Federal superstate, which would require first destroying all nationalism and national pride in each of the host countries. 

And the people didn't like that !

i really don't see that as a issue. Britain had many op out clauses. anyway whats been done is done.  

[stevewinn]

15 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

The problem with a hard border isn't that RoI won't like it (though they won't), its that the Republicans in NI won't like it. 

 

If we had had about 100 years of boring politics and a couple of generations that didn't remember the conflict in NI, and grown up  knowing nothing but peace we might get away with a hard border.  But for some its still fresh in the memory, and old wounds will be reopened.  Maybe level heads will prevail and they'll just wait for the promised "digital tech" to be invented to resolve the problem, but with a bomb going off just the other week I wouldn't count on it....

Technology exists today. Reference the electronic filing that happens now for the differing excise and VAT. Between the UK & RoI. Free movment of people is taken care of under CTA. 

If the EU trusted Ireland they could move the border to Irish ports. Who'd prevent any potential restricted goods traveling into Europe. 

But lets not kid ourselves look at Europe on a map. The EU cannot secure its borders from goods flowing in from elsewhere. Just look at Romania and the restricted goods entering the EU market. 

Also worth noting is the other hard borders we'll have with the likes of France, Belgium, Netherlands we've been assured by local mayor's & port officials that no further checks than what's currently done today will take place, even assuring of no delays. 

So why not apply this to Ireland. The same checks that currently take place away from the border will remain the same. And Ireland inspects goods at its ports so policing the EU's single market. 

But were kidding ourselves if we believe its about goods crossing borders. From the outset its been about keeping the UK aligned to the EU and the EU as admitted as much. 

and as for the weak argument of the GFA. I've been reading it, Nothing about free movement of goods. And on security Section 8, blink and you'll miss it.

 

[TigerBright19]

Do British politicians believe that Brexit is more trouble than it is worth and they can't be bothered with the additional workload of building a new Britain for a new future outside the EU because they don't want the burden of having those responsibilities, and dealing with more risks which could jeopardise their careers, so they would rather just sit back and let the EU run the show for them, because it is the safer option?

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Aaron2016

[stevewinn]