stevewinn Posted February 25, 2019 #5101 Share Posted February 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, godnodog said: Just go for a no deal exit, I am tired of this. imagine how we feel. We where given the choice to Leave the EU and we by a majority voted to leave the EU. (the message as been clear just get on with it and leave) all this messing about is the political class who've never agreed with the result. These last 2 years 9 months as all been about a catch 22, how do the politicians keep the illusion of democracy alive. they accepted the result on one hand but never agreed with it on the other. now we are entering the final countdown and they want to string it out further till possible 2021. a whole five years after the vote. absolute disgrace. its been one massive kick the can down the road exercise until the people changed their minds. hence project fear & project fear 2.0, 3.0 etc... none of its worked so now we reach the crux of the matter, do the politicians uphold democracy or circumvent it in a shameless bare face demonstrating of self superiority over the people who elected them. There will be hell to pay and i fear those in the Westminster bubble just cant sense or see it coming, being heckled in the street will be the last of their worries) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted February 26, 2019 #5102 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Labour prepared to back new Brexit referendum The European Union has opened the door to Britain postponing its exit from the bloc beyond the March 29 deadline, as the Labour Party said it could eventually support a second referendum. https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/british-pm-theresa-may-rejects-eus-idea-of-delaying-brexit/news-story/b6e99733419b3f956900b2c7fe14f6d1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted February 26, 2019 #5103 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Of course it has. This is how it works in the EU. Vote against vote again. Who never seen that coming. Somewhat desperate the eu by its actions, eu rules article 50 can be revoked even though its not covered in the treaty. And now open door to second vote. Its almost as if they know. If the British leave its the end for the eu. 31 days till brexit. Squeaky bum time for the eu. & remainers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma_Acid Posted February 26, 2019 #5104 Share Posted February 26, 2019 On 24/02/2019 at 8:24 PM, stevewinn said: 33 days till Brexit. (or will it be 33 days till a betrayal to be unleashed upon the British people) interesting times either way. In your opinion. Don't speak for all British people though. According to this one, the betrayal's already happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma_Acid Posted February 26, 2019 #5105 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, stevewinn said: Squeaky bum time for the eu. & remainers. If it's going to be as rosy as you guys say it is, why should remainers be worried? You make it out like there's going to be some almighty reckoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted February 26, 2019 #5106 Share Posted February 26, 2019 18 hours ago, stevewinn said: by John Redwood MP. well all the signs are that no deal will be off the table very very soon. Mays deal is the best you can get and if the ERG play hardball you may even need a referendum for that. . But at least Redwood is being honest about what he originally thought of the WA. If thats what the UK gets - its not what Bexiteers like him wanted - (despite others conveniently changing tune and claiming it was only about the backstop) Squeaky bum time for the hard / wto / no deal brexiteers more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted February 26, 2019 #5107 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Emma_Acid said: In your opinion. Don't speak for all British people though. According to this one, the betrayal's already happened. How can you be betrayed. There was a vote and your opinion was in the minority. Whenever a party wins an election they dont then pander to the losing minority. Why should the referendum be any different. The country has spoken in the single biggest vote on a single issue. Who'd have thought you'd argue against democracy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted February 26, 2019 #5108 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) May has just betrayed us. If no deal is agreed by the end of March, if Parliament then rejects no deal, we will be extending article 50. She claims the maximum would be a one off 3 month extension. Thats the ERP picked off. Labour will now call a confidence motion and we are heading for a General Election. Yet more instability for the pound coming. Edited February 26, 2019 by RabidMongoose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted February 26, 2019 #5109 Share Posted February 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: May has just betrayed us. If no deal is agreed by the end of March, if Parliament then rejects no deal, we will be extending article 50. She claims the maximum would be a one off 3 month extension. Thats the ERP picked off. Labour will now call a confidence motion and we are heading for a General Election. Yet more instability for the pound coming. Umm.... parliament has no power to "reject no deal". They can accept the Withdrawal Agreement when they next vote on it. Or they can reject it. That is all - under current rules - that they can do. If they reject it (again), then we automatically go into a no-deal or "true" brexit on the 29th. March. The only way that could change is if Theresa May volunteers to ask the EU for a delay. But would she do that ? If she does, then she is sticking her head out. But I must re-iterate; it is down to Theresa May, and NOT parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted February 26, 2019 #5110 Share Posted February 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Umm.... parliament has no power to "reject no deal". They can accept the Withdrawal Agreement when they next vote on it. Or they can reject it. That is all - under current rules - that they can do. If they reject it (again), then we automatically go into a no-deal or "true" brexit on the 29th. March. The only way that could change is if Theresa May volunteers to ask the EU for a delay. But would she do that ? If she does, then she is sticking her head out. But I must re-iterate; it is down to Theresa May, and NOT parliament. Nope, about an hour back in Parliament May said MPs will get to vote on the No Deal too at the end of March of the proposed deal is reject. If they vote that down too it will be an extension of article 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted February 26, 2019 #5111 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said: Nope, about an hour back in Parliament May said MPs will get to vote on the No Deal too at the end of March of the proposed deal is reject. If they vote that down too it will be an extension of article 50. May has actually stated that she will seek an extension ? Really ? Oh b*****... I've just read it. Yes she has https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/feb/26/brexit-latest-news-developments-theresa-may-chairs-cabinet-amid-reports-she-is-about-to-announce-u-turn-on-giving-mps-potential-vote-to-extend-article-50-politics-live?page=with:block-5c75340fe4b0405a56b4760c#block-5c75340fe4b0405a56b4760c Well, that's it then. Brexit will be foiled by an endless and eternal series of "temporary delays". I'm off to collect petrol and milk bottles Edited February 26, 2019 by RoofGardener 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted February 26, 2019 #5112 Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, RoofGardener said: May has actually stated that she will seek an extension ? Really ? Oh b*****... I've just read it. Yes she has https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/feb/26/brexit-latest-news-developments-theresa-may-chairs-cabinet-amid-reports-she-is-about-to-announce-u-turn-on-giving-mps-potential-vote-to-extend-article-50-politics-live?page=with:block-5c75340fe4b0405a56b4760c#block-5c75340fe4b0405a56b4760c Well, that's it then. Brexit will be foiled by an endless and eternal series of "temporary delays". I'm off to collect petrol and milk bottles Right now we are in the calm before the storm. I predict it will kick off as the date looms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud the mackem Posted February 26, 2019 #5113 Share Posted February 26, 2019 May speak with forked tongue , Corbyn also speak with forked tongue , Now that the crunch is coming they are both trying to hang on to power and to 'Ell with what the British public want , At the start of this fiasco May was a Remainer , Corbyn was a Leaver and both have changed their minds several times , May is now talking about an extension to the leave date , Corbyn now wants another referendum, WE CAN NEVER TRUST EITHER ,EVER AGAIN. The British public voted to Leave , whether a deal is struck or a no deal happens ,but parliament doesn't want a no deal so we can't trust that shower either . Lets get them out A.S.A.P. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted February 26, 2019 #5114 Share Posted February 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, spud the mackem said: May speak with forked tongue , Corbyn also speak with forked tongue , Now that the crunch is coming they are both trying to hang on to power and to 'Ell with what the British public want , At the start of this fiasco May was a Remainer , Corbyn was a Leaver and both have changed their minds several times , May is now talking about an extension to the leave date , Corbyn now wants another referendum, WE CAN NEVER TRUST EITHER ,EVER AGAIN. The British public voted to Leave , whether a deal is struck or a no deal happens ,but parliament doesn't want a no deal so we can't trust that shower either . Lets get them out A.S.A.P. Get them out ASAP ? Well.. yeah.. that's the problem, isn't it ? Who do we vote for ? ALL of the main parties in parliament wanted to remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted February 26, 2019 #5115 Share Posted February 26, 2019 38 minutes ago, spud the mackem said: , Corbyn now wants another referendum, I don't think anyone thinks he actually wants a referendum. He wants to have at least a couple of MPs left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 26, 2019 #5116 Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Get them out ASAP ? Well.. yeah.. that's the problem, isn't it ? Who do we vote for ? ALL of the main parties in parliament wanted to remain. that's why Farage has set up the Brexit Party... if it comes to a General Election we will all have to vote for that.... all 17.4 million of us even though UKIP is another option... at this point in history I think we would all need to rally round Nige and the Brexit Party... to get this job done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 26, 2019 #5117 Share Posted February 26, 2019 result of the last General Election 2017... link Conservatives Votes – 13,667,213 Seats – 318 Vote Share – 42.4 Labour Votes – 12,874,985 Seats – 262 Vote Share – 40.0 other results on link but these are for the two main parties... I know it would matter how the numbers spread around constituencies but 17.4 million is a very decent number - if everyone stuck together for a crucial General Election.... if it comes to that and if both the main parties fail to deliver... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted February 26, 2019 #5118 Share Posted February 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, RoofGardener said: Get them out ASAP ? Well.. yeah.. that's the problem, isn't it ? Who do we vote for ? ALL of the main parties in parliament wanted to remain. I think if 20,000 people go rioting about it that will set it all off like a spark in a tinderbox. It will flare up into mass rioting worse than has been going on in France. I note the Queen has her `holiday` booked until it all settles down again lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted February 26, 2019 #5119 Share Posted February 26, 2019 We knew politics in this country was broken long before the Referendum vote. trouble is General Elections are never enough of a catalyst alone for change, not even the expenses scandal, But Brexit is. The HoC is being exposed like never before. Change is coming and its been long over due. Leaving the EU is fast becoming a secondary issue, the fight, people vs Parliament is about to begin. Brexit will naturally follow in the aftermath of the old politics and ushered in under the new politics.when the time comes to go to war we take an army. were 17.4million strong. Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted February 26, 2019 #5120 Share Posted February 26, 2019 52 minutes ago, bee said: result of the last General Election 2017... link Conservatives Votes – 13,667,213 Seats – 318 Vote Share – 42.4 Labour Votes – 12,874,985 Seats – 262 Vote Share – 40.0 other results on link but these are for the two main parties... I know it would matter how the numbers spread around constituencies but 17.4 million is a very decent number - if everyone stuck together for a crucial General Election.... if it comes to that and if both the main parties fail to deliver... Except those 17 million won't all vote together. For the simple reason Brexit is not everyone's top priority. Just like the Lib Dems did not get 16 million votes in the last election from remainers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 26, 2019 #5121 Share Posted February 26, 2019 25 minutes ago, Setton said: Except those 17 million won't all vote together. For the simple reason Brexit is not everyone's top priority. Just like the Lib Dems did not get 16 million votes in the last election from remainers. I take your point.... but maybe even Remainers balked at giving too much power to the Lib Dems... I mean... there are limits but anyway... regarding the voting numbers and working with approximations... If the two main parties fail to deliver after all this time and disrespect 17.4 million voters.. There are going to be some seriously p***ed off people and even if that only results in half the Leave voters deserting the 2 main parties....the results could be approximately thus..... I won't show my working out unless anyone is keen to see it.... Con - 9,125,000 Lab - 8,125,000 Brex - 8,750,000 The UKIP / Brexit Party split vote could have an effect but this could be balanced out by the new 'Independent Group'.... taking more votes away from Lab and Con.... Basically if only half of Leave Voters desert the 2 main parties... and mostly go with Farage's Brexit Party.. Then a 3rd and equally big Party will suddenly emerge.... In theory... . but it could easily become a reality after this ridiculous fiasco the House of Commons has put the country through...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted February 26, 2019 #5122 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, bee said: I take your point.... but maybe even Remainers balked at giving too much power to the Lib Dems... I mean... there are limits but anyway... regarding the voting numbers and working with approximations... If the two main parties fail to deliver after all this time and disrespect 17.4 million voters.. There are going to be some seriously p***ed off people and even if that only results in half the Leave voters deserting the 2 main parties....the results could be approximately thus..... I won't show my working out unless anyone is keen to see it.... Con - 9,125,000 Lab - 8,125,000 Brex - 8,750,000 The UKIP / Brexit Party split vote could have an effect but this could be balanced out by the new 'Independent Group'.... taking more votes away from Lab and Con.... Basically if only half of Leave Voters desert the 2 main parties... and mostly go with Farage's Brexit Party.. Then a 3rd and equally big Party will suddenly emerge.... In theory... . but it could easily become a reality after this ridiculous fiasco the House of Commons has put the country through...... But, even if your calculations are right (suspect a bit of simplifying gone on), a Lab/IG or Con/IG coalition would mean the Brexit party would have next to no power in parliament. Personally, I think it'd be great to have a couple more viable parties (even a Brexit one!). Can't see it happening though. Soon as Brexit is settled, everyone will vote for their usual parties, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted February 26, 2019 #5123 Share Posted February 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, Setton said: But, even if your calculations are right (suspect a bit of simplifying gone on), a Lab/IG or Con/IG coalition would mean the Brexit party would have next to no power in parliament. Personally, I think it'd be great to have a couple more viable parties (even a Brexit one!). Can't see it happening though. Soon as Brexit is settled, everyone will vote for their usual parties, I'm sure. oh I don't know... we will have to see how it all pans out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted February 27, 2019 #5124 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Setton said: Soon as Brexit is settled, everyone will vote for their usual parties, I'm sure. Depends very much how it pans out. Voters will not forgive a party for bringing economic and social hardship even if that was the implicit outcome voted for in the 2016 referendum. Unless the immediate negative impacts expected by the government were eliminated by the next election, I feel the party that delivered Brexit will be punished by the populace. Hence i believe May will do all she can to avoid a no deal. Edited February 27, 2019 by RAyMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted February 27, 2019 #5125 Share Posted February 27, 2019 14 hours ago, stevewinn said: We knew politics in this country was broken long before the Referendum vote. trouble is General Elections are never enough of a catalyst alone for change, not even the expenses scandal, But Brexit is. The HoC is being exposed like never before. Change is coming and its been long over due. Leaving the EU is fast becoming a secondary issue, the fight, people vs Parliament is about to begin. Brexit will naturally follow in the aftermath of the old politics and ushered in under the new politics.when the time comes to go to war we take an army. were 17.4million strong. Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war! LOL... so armed rebellion is it, steve? ...was it politics that was broken or brexit being nothing but clear cut? its just impossible for a global economic and military power to isolate itself from its sphere of influence, Europe. and thats what leaving the EU is about. the 17.4 million were i'll informed and sold a dream that has become a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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