Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
keithisco

Opening gambits in EU / UK exit negotiations;

7,967 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

RAyMO
5 hours ago, stevewinn said:

You confusing yourself here, any Brexiteer could agree with the WA as it delivers Brexit on the 29th March

Oh - now that's a turn around - brextieers were fuming with the WA and only latched onto the backstop as a convenient means to derail it. Worst of both worlds....etc etc

“build on the single customs territory provided for in the withdrawal agreement”. --customs Union by another name they screamed.

A role for the ECJ -- not acceptable they claimed

Dynamic alignment on state aid, no regression clauses -- stopping the UK ruling itself they protested.

The WA has only become acceptable as Boris and friends see that the alternative is no Brexit.

come the 30 March the UK either will still be in the EU or in BRINO otherwise known as Mays deal

Edited by RAyMO
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn
30 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Oh - now that's a turn around - brextieers were fuming with the WA and only latched onto the backstop as a convenient means to derail it. Worst of both worlds....etc etc

“build on the single customs territory provided for in the withdrawal agreement”. --customs Union by another name they screamed.

A role for the ECJ -- not acceptable they claimed

Dynamic alignment on state aid, no regression clauses -- stopping the UK ruling itself they protested.

The WA has only become acceptable as Boris and friends see that the alternative is no Brexit.

come the 30 March the UK either will still be in the EU or in BRINO otherwise known as Mays deal

Transition Agreement which then morphed into the finalised WA.

Either way the UK will leave on the 29th March. 

As for May she could be gone not long after 27th Feb. 

41 Days till Brexit. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spud the mackem
3 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

As Brexit approaches I will look forward to a free and independent Britain.

I want to see us re-establish Britain as a superpower. We should do this by bonding closer with the USA, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand. By expanding our military capabilities so instead of having the technology of a superpower (which we already do) we have the heft of one as well. Then I want to see our block (UK, USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand) go empire building. We could depose numerous tyrannical regimes and admit the nations to a new Commonwealth. One where our block gets the trade deals for having liberated them.

Why doesn't Captain Risky lobby his parliament to remove our Union Flag from his flag and replace it with the E.U. Flag , as he seems to dislike Britain so much . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Captain Risky
3 hours ago, spud the mackem said:

Why doesn't Captain Risky lobby his parliament to remove our Union Flag from his flag and replace it with the E.U. Flag , as he seems to dislike Britain so much . 

hey spud. funny that you say that, a couple of weeks ago we were all discussing the advantages and disadvantages of Australia becoming a republic and believe it or not the flag was the main reason. as you know Australia is very multicultural and ties to the UK and the monarchy are just not as important anymore. the Australian flag is unfortunately associated with right wing nationalism. in act there are area's in Sydney and Melbourne that have banned people with the flag as its viewed racist. so if Labour win the next election latter this year the republic and and flag will become major issues. personally having the flag of another country on our flag is embarrassing. no offence to your country but id feel the same way if it was the American stars and stripes. it just is demeaning and an ongoing and visible symbol of colonialism. so to answer your question, NO i wouldn't want the EU flag to be part of my flag.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Captain Risky
8 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

As Brexit approaches I will look forward to a free and independent Britain.

I want to see us re-establish Britain as a superpower. We should do this by bonding closer with the USA, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand. By expanding our military capabilities so instead of having the technology of a superpower (which we already do) we have the heft of one as well. Then I want to see our block (UK, USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand) go empire building. We could depose numerous tyrannical regimes and admit the nations to a new Commonwealth. One where our block gets the trade deals for having liberated them.

we're closer to the U.S. these days than the UK. the Asia-Pacific region is slowing becoming a future flash point so everyone is welcome.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn

40 days till Brexit. :tsu:

 

 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spud the mackem
10 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

hey spud. funny that you say that, a couple of weeks ago we were all discussing the advantages and disadvantages of Australia becoming a republic and believe it or not the flag was the main reason. as you know Australia is very multicultural and ties to the UK and the monarchy are just not as important anymore. the Australian flag is unfortunately associated with right wing nationalism. in act there are area's in Sydney and Melbourne that have banned people with the flag as its viewed racist. so if Labour win the next election latter this year the republic and and flag will become major issues. personally having the flag of another country on our flag is embarrassing. no offence to your country but id feel the same way if it was the American stars and stripes. it just is demeaning and an ongoing and visible symbol of colonialism. so to answer your question, NO i wouldn't want the EU flag to be part of my flag.    

No problem becoming a republic as long as you have an elected president and not a dictator , I've been all around Aus and find it ok except for the crap beer , and schooners and middies aren't as good as pints . Its ok by me if you take our Flag off yours . I still don't know why you want us to remain in the E.U. instead of becoming a sovereign country as you would be if you become a republic ,as there are a lot of Brits there who would maybe get annoyed if you broke ties. I am British and don't want to be told what to do by and unelected semi Nazi .

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Captain Risky
1 minute ago, spud the mackem said:

No problem becoming a republic as long as you have an elected president and not a dictator , I've been all around Aus and find it ok except for the crap beer , and schooners and middies aren't as good as pints . Its ok by me if you take our Flag off yours . I still don't know why you want us to remain in the E.U. instead of becoming a sovereign country as you would be if you become a republic ,as there are a lot of Brits there who would maybe get annoyed if you broke ties. I am British and don't want to be told what to do by and unelected semi Nazi .

yeah i'll be honest, a pint sounds so much more appealing than a pot or schooner. another British import is the beer glasses we are starting to copy from Britain.and cider... love cider. everyone is drinking cider these days. so yeah, we're still heavily dependent culturally on Britain. look Australia is a growing country, probably faster than most. we're at a conference not long ago and they mentioned that in the next 1 hundred years Australia will be very much Asian and Indian sub-continent in character. anyway, we are in a U.S. orbit as will you be very soon. i don't insist on anything. I'm just amazed at how easily influenced the UK was to leave. liars set the agenda and the future. can't believe how gullible the people were to trust the politicians. brexit in this forum is great value. i enjoy the banter and to be honest i can't wait to see egg on steve and Keiths face. i'll feel sorry for the rest but those two have it coming. I'm hanging around for the bragging rights i guess.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
keithisco
1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

yeah i'll be honest, a pint sounds so much more appealing than a pot or schooner. another British import is the beer glasses we are starting to copy from Britain.and cider... love cider. everyone is drinking cider these days. so yeah, we're still heavily dependent culturally on Britain. look Australia is a growing country, probably faster than most. we're at a conference not long ago and they mentioned that in the next 1 hundred years Australia will be very much Asian and Indian sub-continent in character. anyway, we are in a U.S. orbit as will you be very soon. i don't insist on anything. I'm just amazed at how easily influenced the UK was to leave. liars set the agenda and the future. can't believe how gullible the people were to trust the politicians. brexit in this forum is great value. i enjoy the banter and to be honest i can't wait to see egg on steve and Keiths face. i'll feel sorry for the rest but those two have it coming. I'm hanging around for the bragging rights i guess.   

The Agenda was set by Liars?...The Agenda was set by Camerons Government which heavily promoted staying in the EU so yes, I guess with Project Fear paid for by the Government and shown to be false means that they were all Liars. Unfortunately for them they were found out so instead of winning by just 1 extra vote, the margin was massively substantial by 1.5Million extra votes.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn
2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

yeah i'll be honest, a pint sounds so much more appealing than a pot or schooner. another British import is the beer glasses we are starting to copy from Britain.and cider... love cider. everyone is drinking cider these days. so yeah, we're still heavily dependent culturally on Britain. look Australia is a growing country, probably faster than most. we're at a conference not long ago and they mentioned that in the next 1 hundred years Australia will be very much Asian and Indian sub-continent in character. anyway, we are in a U.S. orbit as will you be very soon. i don't insist on anything. I'm just amazed at how easily influenced the UK was to leave. liars set the agenda and the future. can't believe how gullible the people were to trust the politicians. brexit in this forum is great value. i enjoy the banter and to be honest i can't wait to see egg on steve and Keiths face. i'll feel sorry for the rest but those two have it coming. I'm hanging around for the bragging rights i guess.   

you have this craving to be right all the time, bragging rights? why is that what do you personally get out of it?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Captain Risky
10 hours ago, stevewinn said:

you have this craving to be right all the time, bragging rights? why is that what do you personally get out of it?

...only when it’s about Brexit.  I’m not going anywhere, Steve. 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn
9 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

...only when it’s about Brexit.  I’m not going anywhere, Steve. 

The question asked was what do you personally get out of it? 

Edit for the following NEWS.

 

Quote

 

Australia to fast-track UK trade pact on no-deal Brexit

Australia's trade minister Simon Birmingham, said his country is ready to sign a fast-tracked trade agreement with the UK by the end of the year in event of a no-deal Brexit.

An informal British-Australian working group has been meeting for around 18 months to prepare for a possible trade deal. But formal negotiations cannot begin until the UK has left the EU 

 

Good NEWS.

39 Days till Brexit.

 

 

Edited by stevewinn
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RabidMongoose
On ‎17‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 8:15 AM, stevewinn said:

40 days till Brexit. :tsu:

 

 

Its too late now for new legislation to go through Parliament to override us automatically leaving at the end of March with a Hard Brexit if no deal can be agreed. There isn't the time remaining which would be needed for it to occur.

Edited by RabidMongoose
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn
15 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Its too late now for new legislation to go through Parliament to override us automatically leaving at the end of March with a Hard Brexit if no deal can be agreed. There isn't the time remaining which would be needed for it to occur,

trouble is we've still got the govt working against us and Brexit, here im talking about the Prime Minister herself and the civil servants in Whitehall.

Even though all the signs and all the work done for leaving under our democratic processes have been achieved for our leaving on the 29th March. the odd's still remain in favour of us still being in the EU after that date. We have a deceitful Prime Minister, just look at the last vote she lost in Parliament she tried to get No Deal taken off the table. even at this near 11th hour she's still trying to get us to remain. just look at the evidence from her former ministers David Davis, Steve Baker, Dominic Raab etc..

And with 39 Days to go it ain't over yet. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RabidMongoose
14 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

trouble is we've still got the govt working against us and Brexit, here im talking about the Prime Minister herself and the civil servants in Whitehall.

Even though all the signs and all the work done for leaving under our democratic processes have been achieved for our leaving on the 29th March. the odd's still remain in favour of us still being in the EU after that date. We have a deceitful Prime Minister, just look at the last vote she lost in Parliament she tried to get No Deal taken off the table. even at this near 11th hour she's still trying to get us to remain. just look at the evidence from her former ministers David Davis, Steve Baker, Dominic Raab etc..

And with 39 Days to go it ain't over yet. 

I disagree, we are out 100% now at the end of March.

With the limited time available it isn't long enough for new legislation to extend Article 50 or to remove the Hard-Brexit default. The current voting in Parliament is show voting, it carries no legal weight. The default leave is law and it takes 40 days to pass a new law to override it.

Parliament doesnt simply vote laws into effect. The process has several steps in it:

1. The Lower Chamber (House of Commons) - The Government proposes a new law and it is debated to get a full range of views by MPs. This gives the Government information on what would get a majority vote.

2. The Upper Chamber (House of Lords) - It goes upstairs to the Lords who scrutinise the proposal for the new law. They debate it, decide what will need to be changed or altered for a majority of them to pass it, and then it goes back downstairs to the Lower Chamber.

3. The Lower Chamber - This is the first opportunity that a vote can be held on making the proposal a new law. It is unlikely but can occur if the Lords were happy for no modifications to happen. Up to this step takes a minimum of 40 days. With Brexit it would take longer anyway because there is no clear majority for anything in Parliament and the ERG have already said they would engage in delaying tactics.

We have our Brexit, I would say I`m 95% sure its going to be a Hard-Brexit, but the EU may comeback in the late hours to offer us an termination clause to Mrs May`s Soft-Brexit deal. Without it I think its very unlikely MPs would allow the UK to be forced into such a legal trap.

Edited by RabidMongoose
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn
21 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

I disagree, we are out 100% now at the end of March.

With the limited time available it isn't long enough for new legislation to extend Article 50 or to remove the Hard-Brexit default. The current voting in Parliament is show voting, it carries no legal weight. The default leave is law and it takes 40 days to pass a new law to override it.

Parliament doesnt simply vote laws into effect. The process has several steps in it:

1. The Lower Chamber (House of Commons) - The Government proposes a new law and it is debated to get a full range of views by MPs. This gives the Government information on what would get a majority vote.

2. The Upper Chamber (House of Lords) - It goes upstairs to the Lords who scrutinise the proposal for the new law. They debate it, decide what will need to be changed or altered for a majority of them to pass it, and then it goes back downstairs to the Lower Chamber.

3. The Lower Chamber - This is the first opportunity that a vote can be held on making the proposal a new law. It is unlikely but can occur if the Lords were happy for no modifications to happen. Up to this step takes a minimum of 40 days. With Brexit it would take longer anyway because there is no clear majority for anything in Parliament and the ERG have already said they would engage in delaying tactics.

We have our Brexit, I would say I`m 95% sure its going to be a Hard-Brexit, but the EU may comeback in the late hours to offer us an termination clause to Mrs May`s Soft-Brexit deal. Without it I think its very unlikely MPs would allow the UK to be forced into such a legal trap.

The reason for my post yesterday, apparently our CEO let slip Theresa May promised we will stay part of the Customs Union. that's why May  desperately wants to retain the Backstop as this fullfills her promise to big business to keep us in the EU.

 

 

 

  38 Days till Brexit.

 

edit to add.

Over 100,000 joined the Brexit Party and rising.
Tory membership 124,000.

If Brexit is delayed, You can add my name to that list. and i've never been a member of any political party.

 

Edited by stevewinn
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn

continuity agreements No 20 & 21 signed.

https://twitter.co

m/tradegovuk/status/1097816815789633536

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bee
20 hours ago, stevewinn said:

The reason for my post yesterday, apparently our CEO let slip Theresa May promised we will stay part of the Customs Union. that's why May  desperately wants to retain the Backstop as this fullfills her promise to big business to keep us in the EU.

 

 

 

  38 Days till Brexit.

 

edit to add.

Over 100,000 joined the Brexit Party and rising.
Tory membership 124,000.

If Brexit is delayed, You can add my name to that list. and i've never been a member of any political party.

 

 

Nigel's Rearguard Action is taking shape nicely ...  

and must be causing tsunami sized ripples behind the scenes... :) 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Setton
19 hours ago, stevewinn said:

continuity agreements No 20 & 21 signed.

https://twitter.co

m/tradegovuk/status/1097816815789633536

 

That must have been a fun double visit... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn

36 days till Brexit.

within touching distance.

Govt still hasn't published its tariff schedule.

Article 50 will be extended by any means possible.

The political consequences and ramifications will shake Democracy in this country to its core.

I cant wait.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RabidMongoose
1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

36 days till Brexit.

within touching distance.

Govt still hasn't published its tariff schedule.

Article 50 will be extended by any means possible.

The political consequences and ramifications will shake Democracy in this country to its core.

I cant wait.

We haven't seen any MPs physically fighting in Parliament yet.

Give it chance, in those final hours it will happen lmao.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
itsnotoutthere

Can I ask a serious question, and truthfully I'm not trying to wind anybody (either side of the brexit camp) up.

But I keep hearing in the media the comment or phrase.... "we must avoid a hard border with Ireland at all costs"  

And my question is ...why?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stevewinn
3 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Can I ask a serious question, and truthfully I'm not trying to wind anybody (either side of the brexit camp) up.

But I keep hearing in the media the comment or phrase.... "we must avoid a hard border with Ireland at all costs"  

And my question is ...why?

Because they want use the excuse of irish terrorism. And so keep us tied to the EU.

This is the reality the irish are anti British. (Just look at the irish thank you card to the commission)

They wanted independence from the UK but they never wanted the consequences of that. By being EU member's it has postponed those consequences becoming a reality.

Now nearly a hundred years later the reality is hitting home, my view is the irish want to be treated like a 3rd country. And s should be treated like one no special favours. And compete on the world stage for our custom.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RabidMongoose
2 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Can I ask a serious question, and truthfully I'm not trying to wind anybody (either side of the brexit camp) up.

But I keep hearing in the media the comment or phrase.... "we must avoid a hard border with Ireland at all costs"  

And my question is ...why?

About 5000 people commute across the Irish border every weekday. If a hard border went up it could (during busy times) add an extra 30 minutes onto their travelling time. And it could (again during busy times) add 30 minutes to the journeys of trunk deliveries. In order to solve that they were hoping for a technological solution to allow people to drive straight through but none were deemed practical.

So some brilliant geniuses think paying £39 billion a year for a customs union to avoid 30 minute waiting times during busy periods is a good idea. Of course, the EU demands £39 billion for the pleasure of having no border because it means we can export our products into the EU via the Republic of Ireland while avoiding import tariffs. They calculate the damage UK firms would do to EU ones because of this requires a payment of £39 billion per year to level the playing field.

I say sod it! Let people wait 30 minutes extra during busy times and if that means they have to find new jobs then so be it. It is not cost effective to pay £39 billion per year just to keep them happy. And who says there would be delays on the UK side anyway? The EU cannot force us to do checks on vehicles travelling through to our side and we have already stated that we wont.

There is also a treaty between the UK and the Republic of Ireland regarding the legal status of Northern Ireland. In the agreement ROI accepts that NI belongs to Britain, that NI can vote on re-joining the ROI at a future date if it wants too, and that the people of ROI and NI can freely travel around the whole island because there is no hard border between the two.

Again, the EU has no legal authority to dictate to an independent UK that it must stop the Irish moving about the island. We have made clear our intentions that the UK will honour the Peace Agreement by allowing Republicans to travel to Northern Ireland freely. So if that treaty gets violated it will be the Republic of Ireland breaking it under pressure from the EU.

So what do we honestly need a Soft-Brexit deal for?

The only gain for the UK is that our businesses would be able to export to Ireland to get their products into the EU while avoiding import tariffs. But its not free, there is a £39 billion fee attached. There is also no exit clause meaning if the EU implemented sharp legal practices then the UK can never leave the customs union. Or risks war if it does so anyway.

And yes, we are also aware they would try to get an EU army in place with units based in the UK long before we ever violated that Soft-Brexit deal to leave. UK politicians arent stupid. No exit clause = no deal.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RabidMongoose
29 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Because they want use the excuse of irish terrorism. And so keep us tied to the EU.

This is the reality the irish are anti British. (Just look at the irish thank you card to the commission)

They wanted independence from the UK but they never wanted the consequences of that. By being EU member's it has postponed those consequences becoming a reality.

Now nearly a hundred years later the reality is hitting home, my view is the irish want to be treated like a 3rd country. And s should be treated like one no special favours. And compete on the world stage for our custom.

 

Over the last few centuries British history has shown quite clearly that the Irish are religious fundamentalists.

Has that been changing over the last 100 years? They would argue yes, but its been less that 100 years since the last time they were killing each other over religion. The Catholics over there were killing Protestants in Northern Ireland so they requested to re-join the UK so that we would save them.

The IRA liked to claim that what was actually happening was an opportunistic Britain expanding its empire. From our side we intervened to prevent a human rights catastrophe. While some of the ancestors of those Protestants were religious converts most of them have some English ancestry in their past. So bearing in mind most have some English in them we felt it our duty to save them from what could easily have become ethnic cleansing.

So how did the English initially end up there spreading their seed amongst the local population? Its back to the religious fundamentalism again. Ireland used to routinely kick off over religion causing numerous civil wars and rebellions, some of which spread throughout the rest of the UK. So to stop those Catholic Fundamentalists we removed the guilty ones from their middle and upper class positions in society and transplanted loyal citizens across into their places instead.

Then those naughty Catholic Rebels no longer commanded the positions of leadership or had the resources to cause any further problems.

The Irish are also paranoid about us deliberately letting Catholics starve to death during the potato famine unless they converted to Protestants. In reality we fed the starving in return for them working for the state on civil engineering projects (mainly road building). Most of those that starved to death didnt want to do the work or let things get so bad that by the time they turned up at the workhouse they were badly malnourished. Then simple colds killed them.

Edited by RabidMongoose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.