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Opening gambits in EU / UK exit negotiations;


keithisco

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59 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

To be fair Steve,everyone embellishes lol

Trump said his swearing in crowd was the largest in history,footage from above showed he was fudging abit :lol:

But now i'm seeing all this "re-vote" stuff and wondering if you folks have another one,will the UK wait another 2 years to take a 3rd and final vote to assure they got it right? :lol:

True, i remember trump, :lol:

but on a more serious note we apparently now in the UK ignore democratic votes. 17.4million people returned the biggest democratic vote mandated to any parliament in our History and a minority on the losing side of the vote want it overturned. does it get anymore serious?

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1 minute ago, stevewinn said:

True, i remember trump, :lol:

but on a more serious note we apparently now in the UK ignore democratic votes. 17.4million people returned the biggest democratic vote mandated to any parliament in our History and a minority on the losing side of the vote want it overturned. does it get anymore serious?

I hear ya man...

I never thought i'd see the day we started having full on country wide voted on issues and the losing side wants to change the rules or have a complete redo...

I've been following Brexit on and off since the first day,i don't know all the issues that have went down as i'm not in the UK and generally don't stick my nose in other countries business...but a full on Democratic vote being blindly ignored means "Democracy" for and by the people is starting to erode.

H

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Organising a surprise party for my mums birthday. i received a phone call out of the blue from my cousin, well second cousin. she works for the diplomatic service, as a councillor / consular support based out of embassies around the world whenever she calls which is only a few times a year around Christmas and birthdays we always get onto current affairs, out of respect Ive never asked her which way she voted in the referendum. i took the opportunity to ask her about the UK leaving on the 29th March and is it possible, her reply shocked me and then again didn't, the UK cannot leave the EU on the 29th March. when Theresa May asked for an extension and the EU agreed the new date of April 12th became the new leaving date under EU law, and because EU law supersedes UK law we cannot leave on the 29th even if we want to. - i put it to you the people is there any  greater example, reason or argument of why we have to leave the EU.  

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1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I don't watch TV. I prefer reading from various sources. It gives me more complete picture while taking a lot less of my time. 

One doesn't have to be psychic to conclude the support for Brexit has significantly fallen. That was the point one million people was trying to tell you. Not me. Not one foreigner. It was one million Brits telling you that. 

Plus 4,5 million who signed the petition.  

Only an imbecile with complete disregard for democracy would ignore that many directly involved people. 

At the same time, 100 Brexiters managed to show up. Wearing yellow vests. *shakes head* That's pathetic. Especially the yellow vests touch. 

So let me remind you again that loud and obnoxious Brexit propaganda on the Internet has suspiciously weak turnout in the real life.   

As I am a Brit I think I know more about what is going on in my country than you (no offence). And every politician is saying something different (including the type trying to make out peoples Brexit opinion has changed). None have any factual evidence backing up their views because no one has asked the people.

Like I said, apply some critical thinking skills.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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8 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

leaving date under EU law, and because EU law supersedes UK law we cannot leave on the 29th even if we want to. - i put it to you the people is there any  greater example, reason or argument of why we have to leave the EU.  

:tu:

Just dropped in to basically say,if lawmakers and politicians don't enforce the will of the people,why have lawmakers and politicians?

I'll exit now and go back to reading the "NO Trump Russian Collusion" thread :lol:

Edited by CrimsonKing
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10 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

:tu:

Just dropped in to basically say,if lawmakers and politicians don't enforce the will of the people,why have lawmakers and politicians?

I'll exit now and go back to reading the "NO Trump Russian Collusion" thread :lol:

Hang on, i think i'll join ye, i'll get my coat.

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1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

As I am a Brit I think I know more about what is going on in my country than you (no offence). And every politician is saying something different (including the type trying to make out peoples Brexit opinion has changed). None have any factual evidence backing up their views because no one has asked the people.

Sounds like a good idea to ask them then. Did you march for that yesterday? 

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2 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

But now i'm seeing all this "re-vote" stuff and wondering if you folks have another one,will the UK wait another 2 years to take a 3rd and final vote to assure they got it right? :lol:

No, I'd think any second one would be a clear answer. We actually know what the possible outcomes are now. Rather than a vague idea of some kind of deal, we know what the best deal on offer looks like. 

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13 minutes ago, Setton said:

No, I'd think any second one would be a clear answer. We actually know what the possible outcomes are now. Rather than a vague idea of some kind of deal, we know what the best deal on offer looks like. 

Yes, WTO. As our economy is performing better than the eurozone. Even with the threat of WTO hanging over it. Then again WTO is how we trade with our single biggest trade partner and investor. The USA. 

Plus WTO is the only deal which delivers. 

Leaving the EU. 

Leaving the Single Market. 

Leaving the Customs Union. 

Leaving the remit of the ECJ. 

Ability to conduct our own trade deals and FTA's. 

No more £19 billion plus annual payments to the EU

Reclaim our fishing grounds. 

Tell me which EU deal delivers the above. 

 

 

Edited by stevewinn
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16 minutes ago, Setton said:

Sounds like a good idea to ask them then. Did you march for that yesterday? 

Dont distort what I have written to use it for your own purposes.

It is obvious people feel strongly about Brexit whatever their view. What I dont like is manipulative politicians trying to convince people that things have changed or that people didnt know what they were voting for.

People need to hold strong to whatever political views they have without giving them up because some Machiavellian characters on their tv boxes are trying to manipulate them. It is so sad to that we have so many MPs in Parliament doing that, but common sense tells everybody that 100 different views cannot all be correct at the same time.

The truth is every single one of them is lying to us to try and promote their own preferred outcome. Not one of them has the psychic powers to tell us how Brexit will turn out.

Edited by RabidMongoose
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23 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Yes, WTO. As our economy is performing better than the eurozone. Even with the threat of WTO hanging over it. Then again WTO is how we trade with our single biggest trade partner and investor. The USA. 

Plus WTO is the only deal which delivers. 

Leaving the EU. 

Leaving the Single Market. 

Leaving the Customs Union. 

Leaving the remit of the ECJ. 

Ability to conduct our own trade deals and FTA's. 

No more £19 billion plus annual payments to the EU

Reclaim our fishing grounds. 

Tell me which EU deal delivers the above. 

 

 

So with all that in your favour, why are you too afraid to let people have their say on it? 

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22 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Dont distort what I have written to use it for your own purposes.

Not distorting, just asking for clarification on what you said. You said people haven't been asked - do you therefore think they should be? 

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27 minutes ago, Setton said:

So with all that in your favour, why are you too afraid to let people have their say on it? 

We've already voted. Still waiting for it to be implemented. But we face difficulty because of people like yourself. Who unfortunately was on the losing side of the vote and want a second bite of the cherry.

What I find strange and which remainers refuse to answer. According to you all the problems we face today implementing the first vote are unresolvable. Or are you admitting they are resovable because what happens if Leave win for a second time? Do all the supposed problems dissappear. Proving remain created problems that didn't 't exist the first time around. 

Also why if Leave lose a second vote, why should the result be accepted when the first vote wasn't accepted. You yourself cannot refuse to accept the first but then expect others to accept the second. Unless your a hypocrite. 

Also, what's your campaign second time around going to be based around. Will you once again be using project fear? What else have you got? You struggle to answer questions on here. When people ask whatever happened to the recession, job losses, ect.. That never happened what are you going to say, oh they'll happen, its just we haven't left yet? What happens when the creation of an EU army is brought up? we was told by Remain that was just a fantasy and never going to happen. - people will point to the reality. Somehow your going to need to explain why it's a good idea to hand back our fishing grounds, why its a good idea why the EU courts the ECJ should supercede UK laws, and why we should resume sending £19bn plus to the EU. In fact all powers that brexit as brought back to our sovereign Parliament you'll need to explain why we should hand them back to a foreign power. 

Are you sure you'll win a second referendum. Hmm. 

Edited by stevewinn
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29 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Are you sure you'll win a second referendum. Hmm

Not at all. But I think people should have the chance to vote on a real option rather than a hypothetical (as in 2016). If people still want to leave, despite what we now know, then that's it, done. 

But why are you afraid to let people vote on an actual deal? Is it because secretly you know most leave voters didn't want to leave with no deal and you think they won't back this deal either? Do tell why you're a passionate defender of direct democracy in 2016 but not in 2019. 

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24 minutes ago, Setton said:

Not at all. But I think people should have the chance to vote on a real option rather than a hypothetical (as in 2016). If people still want to leave, despite what we now know, then that's it, done. 

But why are you afraid to let people vote on an actual deal? Is it because secretly you know most leave voters didn't want to leave with no deal and you think they won't back this deal either? Do tell why you're a passionate defender of direct democracy in 2016 but not in 2019. 

If the result was exactly the same do you think the remoaners would shut up.

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2 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

If the result was exactly the same do you think the remoaners would shut up.

Yes. Another referendum asked on facts would be most welcome. 

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3 hours ago, Setton said:

Not at all. But I think people should have the chance to vote on a real option rather than a hypothetical (as in 2016). If people still want to leave, despite what we now know, then that's it, done. 

But why are you afraid to let people vote on an actual deal? Is it because secretly you know most leave voters didn't want to leave with no deal and you think they won't back this deal either? Do tell why you're a passionate defender of direct democracy in 2016 but not in 2019. 

They are afraid of another referendum. If for no other reason than their narrative has to stand up to more public scrutiny. 

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7 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Are you sure you'll win a second referendum. Hmm. 

 

Maybe their next dirty trick will be to try and wangle another referendum with 3 choices....
to split the Leave vote...?

ie

Leave with the May/EU deal...
Leave with no deal
Remain

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7 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

If the result was exactly the same do you think the remoaners would shut up.

I'm sure not all would, just like leavers haven't shut up for the last xx years. 

Fortunately, we live in a society where we can express our opinions, whether we are in the majority or not. 

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8 hours ago, Setton said:

Not distorting, just asking for clarification on what you said. You said people haven't been asked - do you therefore think they should be? 

Again distortions.

A referendum has been held, it said leave the EU, deal with it.

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1 hour ago, RabidMongoose said:

Again distortions.

A referendum has been held, it said leave the EU, deal with it.

With the way you and Steve are convinced you can read minds, it's a wonder you ever thought your version of Brexit would be popular. 

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10 hours ago, Setton said:

Not at all. But I think people should have the chance to vote on a real option rather than a hypothetical (as in 2016). If people still want to leave, despite what we now know, then that's it, done. 

But why are you afraid to let people vote on an actual deal? Is it because secretly you know most leave voters didn't want to leave with no deal and you think they won't back this deal either? Do tell why you're a passionate defender of direct democracy in 2016 but not in 2019. 

once again no answer to the questions put.

listen its all rather simply. we've had the referendum deal with it.

when you voted remain, in a remain victory you expected to remain. not to then half leave, like wise with leave everyone knew leave means leave.

try and answer the questions i put to you, lets see if you have a case.

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6 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Yes. Another referendum asked on facts would be most welcome. 

That's not an answer to the question asked and why would it be 'most welcome' to you?

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2 hours ago, Setton said:

I'm sure not all would, just like leavers haven't shut up for the last xx years. 

Fortunately, we live in a society where we can express our opinions, whether we are in the majority or not. 

Let me rephrase it, would you accept the democratic decision this time if the vote turned out the same as last time.

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stick with it.

 

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